Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Paraffin to extract essential oil (cannabis)

Paraffin to extract essential oil (cannabis)

Qt3bflee - 29-10-2015 at 09:31

Let me preface that I am a medical patient residing in a state where cannabis is legal.

I am curious on the use of paraffin wax to extract essential oils.

"I was thinking how easy it would be to heat a solution containing cannabis flower and simply add melted paraffin. Let this mix for 30 minutes, then allow the solution to cool.

From here, the solid paraffin could be further cleaned by washing with water.

After this, the dried paraffin can be added to boiling 95% ethanol and then chilled for winterizing. Chill to the cloud point at which paraffin would precipitate leaving Cannabis oil in solution.

The benefit here is clear, no major safety risks and wholly non-toxic. Plus, the cannabis flower would never require drying. This would allow any grower the means of rapidly reducing their crop into oil straight from harvest.

Paraffin wax is only slightly soluble in ethanol and so extreme temperatures and long waiting times for the winterization process may not be necessary."

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 09:39

Sooo, you want to mix plant matter in with liquid paraffin? Then strain it, cool it and try to extract oil from wax with alcohol? That just sounds like a pain/headache waiting to happen.

Qt3bflee - 29-10-2015 at 09:43

Yes, exactly that.

Paraffin wax can hold up to 1.5oz of essential oil per pound when used for candle making(anecdotal). Ethanol can hold up to 1g of cannabis oil per 3-10ml (anecdotal). I would imagine the oil would have a greater affinity for the ethanol.

My main purpose is due to recent laws being passed preventing the use of butane for extraction. CO2 is cost prohibitive for most people, and while there are other solvent choices, I figured I would explore alternatives.

And to clarify, I do NOT mean "liquid paraffin". I mean paraffin wax (pure) that has been heated sufficiently as to stir easily in a solution.

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 09:51

The thing that strikes me as a poor idea here, is the solid nature of paraffin wax at room temp. Your plant material is going to be entombed in the stuff, and in order to get your oil out, your going to need to heat the wax a lot, And try to strain it clean, before adding a solvent and do a few extractions. Even with strong stirring making tiny droplets, you will only be pulling from the liquid wax blobs surface.

Boiling 95% alc can be pretty dangerous if a spill occurs.

What's wrong with just using the alcohol at room temp for the whole thing?

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 09:57

Safety?!

If you don't avoid handling large quantities of near BP alcohol, why bother using a wax extraction at all?

Some things never change, it seems. Only the choice of dangerously flammable solvents- 40 years ago, people extracting cannabis frequently blew up/burned down their house. Ether(!) and ethanol were popular solvents. Today, same conditions (drug people playing with flammable chemicals, often while using), same general outcome- FWOOOSH! KABOOM!!!

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Bert]

Bot0nist - 29-10-2015 at 10:16

Large scale butane extractions are in vogue now. I can only assume some catastrophic explosions have resulted from neglect and or ignorance during this process.

Qt3bflee - 29-10-2015 at 10:25

You... you don't have to boil alcohol for this process. Have you not heard of paraffin therapy?

Anyway, heating the paraffin wax (which I have done quite readily at <180°f) isn't an issue, nor is heating the ethanol (which paraffin is soluble at far less than boiling alcohol temp.)

I thought this was a science forum. I'm just reading a bit of commentary and ignorance.

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

OneEyedPyro - 29-10-2015 at 10:31

I'd suspect the solubility of wax in ethanol is awfully low, maybe a gram of paraffin per 200mls of boiling alcohol.
It sounds pretty impractical to me.
If the only real benefit is not having to let the plants dry then it doesn't sound worth the extra grief. Besides, drying cannabis would only take at most a couple days with elevated temps and good air flow.

Why not just extract with alcohol then crash into cold water, filter off the solidified product then distill the alcohol back out of the water and repeat? Sounds easier and more efficient but maybe I'm not quite grasping your concept here.

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 10:33

Quote:

I thought this was a science forum. I'm just reading a bit of commentary and ignorance.

Apologies for our verbose and ignorant ways. I will spare you any further exposure to these micro aggressions!

JJay - 29-10-2015 at 10:37

Cannabis is legal here too. Butane extractions are not liked by local authorities, and almost all chemical extractions are illegal, but glycerine extractions are specifically sanctioned by code.

Upsilon - 29-10-2015 at 10:47

Quote: Originally posted by Qt3bflee

I thought this was a science forum. I'm just reading a bit of commentary and ignorance.

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by Qt3bflee]

It is a science forum - not a place for you to drop in out of nowhere to ask about furthering a drug operation and instantly insulting those who aren't telling you what you want to hear.

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 10:52

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

Large scale butane extractions are in vogue now. I can only assume some catastrophic explosions have resulted from neglect and or ignorance during this process.

Oh yes. Made the news several times the last few years- The hash oil makers are killing their neighbors as well as themselves, occasionally. Hence our new friend wanting to find a "safer" way, not involving butane.

But although ethanol @ STP doesn't come boiling out of it's opened container and go looking for your hot water heater's pilot flame- the explosive/flammable range of ethanol in air is WIDER than butane's.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/explosive-concentration-li...
And the flash point of ethanol is still below normal room temperature.

So it's not exactly a low fire danger, especially when handled warm and in bulk by whiny, lazy stoners who can't be arsed to figure out their own chemical engineering.

OneEyedPyro - 29-10-2015 at 10:55

Agreed Upsilon.
It appears he was just looking for a pat on the back for his "brilliant" idea, why even post something if you aren't looking for suggestions?

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by OneEyedPyro]

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 10:55

There is no benefit from using paraffin wax over the alcohol you would use to pull oil out with. Why make a wax middleman situation. Is there a specific reason for the suggested route that you haven't made clear?

Edit, this thread is growing faster than I can type on my phone...

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by violet sin]

Bot0nist - 29-10-2015 at 11:09

Alcohol pulls so much chlorophyll, does it not?

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 11:18

It really does if not run right. If you are trying to get every last spec of active substance. But winterizing can be usefull there. As well as shortened duration of solvent contact. I would assume the paraffin would better retain the waxes and chlorophyll than the oils. But not worth the hastle when alcohol and a freezer are available. There are a ton of sites that have information on what alcohols pull in comparison. Isopropyl, methanol, ethanol that is. As well as ether, hexane and others.

A quick alcohol pull, will give an amber solution, unlike the emerald color of one sitting for some time.

hissingnoise - 29-10-2015 at 11:26

The large number of active compounds in cannabis make extraction a bit hit-and-miss as there is a fairly broad range of solubilities involved . . .

And the shift to sativa-dominant strains means that the subtler effects from difficultly soluble compounds may be slight or missing altogether in the residues obtained!

I personally prefer the more cerebral

, low-latitude sativas and because of that I would never even consider fucking around with extractions . . .

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 11:36

Perhaps a vacuum assisted low/mild heat, vaporizing apparatus would be benefitial there. End up with a honey colored goo inside of chilled glass.

Still sounds like a huge PITA. Extractions can be rewarding if done with care and consumed propperly. A matter of preference I guess. But you don't have to be one of the idiots blasting a gram of oil shatter in one go on a hot pin.

Much subtler states of intoxication can be achieved with a tiny fleck dropped on the cherry of a cigarette and the resulting smoke inhaled. Old hippie showed that trick off. Also mentioned people puking and hallucinating from too much of the stuff made by ether. Less than one standard size drop.

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 11:54

Ethanol extracted>re dissolved in diethyl ether>warm dH2O washed extracts led to some VERY bizarre behavior in "sketchy" people I knew 40 odd years back.

One of the reasons I'm tetchy about baby stoners who know it all. If you're going to do kitchen organic chemistry and put the results into trusting people's systems, you'd better know EXACTLY what the fuck you're about.

Detonationology - 29-10-2015 at 12:20

It seems this thread is off topic enough to bring up this question. If I remember correctly, the polarity of a few solvents is: ethanol > isopropyl > acetone > CHCl3 > CH2Cl2
Why is the di-/trichloromethane extraction so unheard of, assuming that THC would dissolve very well in both, considering it is non-polar?

[Edited on 10-29-2015 by Detonationology]

careysub - 29-10-2015 at 12:32

The best extraction procedure (from the perspective of cost, safety and effectiveness) is to extract with 91% IPA. It works very well.

After evaporation/distillation (water pump would be ideal) if you want to purify the extract, then redissolve in hexane, heptane (Bestine), plain old gasoline, or if you must, butane. Only a very small amount is needed to redissolve the extract.

Sure DCM will do the extraction, as will acetone and DMSO, but they are more expensive, or harder to work with, or extract more extra junk. Curiously, although IPA is considered more polar than acetone, it is more selective in extraction in this case.

[Edited on 29-10-2015 by careysub]

unionised - 29-10-2015 at 12:37

Just a quick note for those who want to point out that this is an absurd, and impractical way to extract something from plants which could never work in a month of Sundays.
It's done commercially on a reasonable scale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enfleurage

hissingnoise - 29-10-2015 at 12:58

Quote:

Why is the di-/trichloromethane extraction so unheard of, assuming that THC would dissolve very well in both, considering it is non-polar?

I wouldn't want the taint of chloride in my smoke and there's the fear that some minor constituents in cannabis might not be fully inert to alkyl chloride . . .

aga - 29-10-2015 at 13:02

Not being a dope-smoker (i get my dope from good old Beer) i have to admit that i'm curious.

I have heard that Butane is used to extract THC from plants yielding an Oil.

Is Weed-Oil commonly available these days ?

It was mostly solid blocks of lebanese blonde hash when i was (much) younger.

Dried buds are, and always will be found as that is the easiest prep.

zed - 29-10-2015 at 13:11

Might be possible to use ethanol biodiesel. Theoretically, it enjoys a price advantage over most common solvents. Provided tax exempt ethanol could be used in its manufacture.

Of course, I'm assuming, the ethyl-esters involved, will not react with cannibis constituents.

An unproven assumption.

Possible?

unionised - 29-10-2015 at 13:11

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise

Quote:

Why is the di-/trichloromethane extraction so unheard of, assuming that THC would dissolve very well in both, considering it is non-polar?

I wouldn't want the taint of chloride in my smoke and there's the fear that some minor constituents in cannabis might not be fully inert to alkyl chloride . . .

it's not as if you are looking at a health food product here.

violet sin - 29-10-2015 at 13:37

There are a great many that pride themselves on using non "CHEMICAL" methods. Disgusted, offended and scared of the word. Only using the finest compost and mineral ammendments for growing. Regardless of yield loss.

The same goes for finished smokables. They do want it health food status.

I'm sure any chlorinated solvent would leave a less than desirable flavor. You ever try to roll tobacco or anything else on white binder paper as a kid? It is like inhaling sandpaper... Lots of kids I knew tried to be like the older brother/sister. Many will tell you straight off what NOT to roll with. Lol.

Using regular iso-alc and winterizing works. That is chilling in a freezer untill the waxes and chlorophyll are no longer held in solution. Dropped to the bottom as gunk. I've seen n emerald green sol go in, and after filtering, amber colored results. It deffinitely doesn't help someone turn a quick buck. Be we are talking about a medical approved guy using his own product, are we not? So who needs concern them selves with market price or production time

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 19:59

Boring old fart keeps thinking: Repeated mention of technical grade reagents (diesel fuels?!). End product should rate pharmaceutical grade/food grade. Good solvents are cheap, compared to fried lungs?

--------

Boring old fart goes back to shepparding baby actors through pretending to shoot at each other on a video set... Half of the crew seem to spark up a vaporizer between scenes. Old fart notices a couple on technical crew who seem very happy and jolly everyday on set, that he feels quite ODD after standing down wind from. Curses and thinks about his random drug test as a hazmat driver. Thinks uncharitable thoughts about youth of today.

arkoma - 29-10-2015 at 20:20

Learned 91%IPA extraction as a teenager in Florida. Have large scar on chin from passing out after overindulging ;-)

Done BHO recently

WELL ventilated area

Bert - 29-10-2015 at 20:30

That picture! Why is There an old RV on that dessert road in the background, with some old skinny white guy with a pistol and wearing only underwear and a gas mask?

-------

Seriously. I know you'll probably die of being shot by a jealous husband before it kills ya, but-

Such butane is a low grade lighter fuel, never intended for safety critical use. I have used a LOT of butane in various applications , and can attest that most cheap butane is HEAVILY contaminated with longer chain and less volatile hydrocarbons of random types, sometimes to the extent that it builds up in tanks as they are repeatedly refilled and screws up air mix ratios, fucks up systems, even EATING catalytic burner grids. Ya sure none of it was LEFT in that oil?

[Edited on 30-10-2015 by Bert]

arkoma - 29-10-2015 at 20:37

LOL

zombiedude1 - 29-10-2015 at 21:44

[ WARNING: Commentary & Ignorance in this response: Do not read, it's not very informative anyway ]

What's interesting to me is the amount of explosions and fires caused by cannabis (THC) oil compared to people running old fashioned LARGE copper stills with LARGE propane burners. I don't hear anything on the news about people distilling a few gallons (or more) of good ole' liquor, but I hear a lot about stoners blowing up basements, garages, homes, sheds, you name it; with the BHO extraction method.

Honestly, it sounds a lot more dangerous with the still considering if it huffs (condenser flash cooling, or other condenser failure) the alcohol fumes jump into the air and fill the house, then finally gets ignited by the propane burner directly underneath it. In fact, there's a mythbusters episode on this... Turns out it's a LOT harder to make it ignite than anticipated.

I'm wondering how the hell can those Butane cans being run through (HOPEFULLY) glass or SS ignite so easily, are these dumb**ts using gas or propane stoves to evaporate the butane? Who knows, but why not just make edibles or smoke the marijuana with a vaporizer? Seems like people are wanting to make oil for "dabs" and to hide large production easily. It's gotta be 99% stupidity when these accidents happen, generally stoners are known for stupidity. (Just check out the grammar and spelling used on many cannabis-related forums)

Don't mind me, discussing random bull**** because I'm bored and everyone else has already gave you great answers.
I'm all for legalization of cannabis (CBD research, cancer, and legitimate medical uses are great), but people are making it harder to accomplish that with their ignorance.
(I don't condone manufacturing THC honey oil -- too many booms)

I also realize that the original poster wasn't talking about using the BHO method, but why does he want to try a new method (not for safety I assume.. boiling 95% ethanol?...

). Non-toxic?... Ethanol is toxic.

@Aga, Weed-Oil (Honey Oil, Dabs, wax, etc..) is very available on the "black market." It's common to smoke this oil by heating up a nail with a propane torch for combustion through a smoking apparatus. Stoners with propane torches and playing with butane...

I have a lot of stoner friends, and neighbors unfortunately. I smoke (vaporizer only) every rare once in a while before bed for insomnia, but never during the day. (EDIT: I am in a legal medical marijuana state as well) I prefer my brews.

[Edited on 30-10-2015 by zombiedude1]

[Edited on 30-10-2015 by zombiedude1]

Upsilon - 30-10-2015 at 04:53

Quote: Originally posted by zombiedude1

Turns out it's a LOT harder to make it ignite than anticipated.

That seems to be the case for a lot of things. When I use my propane torch, I use a household lighter to light it. 9 times out of 10, the propane gas blows the lighter flame out rather than igniting.

[Edited on 30-10-2015 by Upsilon]

Bot0nist - 30-10-2015 at 06:58

There are many sources of ignition in an average home for a wave of butane flowing across a floor. Water heater or stove pilots, fridge, thermostat, light switch, etc.

It may be harder to ignite than some think, but I don't want a cloud of it in my home, or large amounts of ethanol or isopropyl vapors for that matter. I would imagine small batches of BHO are best made outdoors, on a breezy day.

Bert - 30-10-2015 at 07:03

Quote:

I would imagine small batches of BHO are best made outdoors, on a breezy day.

Why would anyone want to make Barack Hussein Obama? Isn't there enough already to hand...

hissingnoise - 30-10-2015 at 07:50

Quote:

So it's not exactly a low fire danger, especially when handled warm and in bulk by whiny, lazy stoners who can't be arsed to figure out their own chemical engineering.

'Bit depressing to see that ignorant old "stoner" stereotype still rearing its wretched head!

Detonationology - 30-10-2015 at 08:19

Almost all solvents used in the cannabis extraction process are flammable, with the exception of CO2 and water of course. The media loves to publicize cannabis extraction explosions by comparing them to a "meth lab." Perhaps, by bringing to light lower flammability or non-flammable solvents, the media will no longer have any fuel to feed the ears of drug Tsars and anti-decriminalization supporters.

mayko - 30-10-2015 at 08:59

I've always wondered, why isn't steam distillation used?

Bot0nist - 30-10-2015 at 09:47

A quick search showed a few links and ads for "solvent free hash oil" with steam distilled in the text. I didn't read further, but I'm sure it's been tried, or is currently used in some fashion.

Bert - 30-10-2015 at 11:25

Quote: Originally posted by Detonationology

Perhaps, by bringing to light lower flammability or non-flammable solvents, the media will no longer have any fuel to feed the ears of drug Tsars and anti-decriminalization supporters.

Fueling the drug war... You need fuel, oxidizer and an ignition source for a metaphor... Errr, fire! Yes, for a fire.

You're young and still retain the belief that science and reason has much to do with human activity. I'm old, bitter and experienced.

If safety and toxicological data were applicable to this front of "the war on drugs(tm)", you'd likely buy your cannabis products at the places that USED to sell good ol' alcohol and tobacco. Pretty sure we can all agree on THAT?

But too much money/power and social inertia from the past centuries propaganda campaigns is vested in those 2 well established competitive industries, the status quo of USA prison/industrial complex/organized crime/big government. Call THAT your ignition source, and it's a bloody POWERFUL one.

I'll let you guys propose the metaphors for "fuel" and "Oxygen". You're still smokin', apparently- Probably will come up with something funkier and more poetic than mine.

Burn that motherfucker down...

[Edited on 30-10-2015 by Bert]

arkoma - 31-10-2015 at 05:13

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

. I would imagine small batches of BHO are best made outdoors, on a breezy day.

Y'all saw where I was...........out on a friends 10 acres with a nice black dumpster lid to set my corning ware on to hasten evap of butane