Sciencemadness Discussion Board - RogueSci Mirror

I hadn't realized that RogueSci is down, but I'm definitely going to try to grab the data from that hidden site. I think I have a virtual machine image with Tor on it here somewhere....

Would you consider yourself a RogueSci veteran or someone who has been reading a lot into it? If so,then can you please tell us what were are looking at in terms of information lost that can't be "rediscovered" through reading on the Surface Web after you are done grabbing the data? I know it's impossible to remember EVERYTHING from the website,but please just write out the most...memorable content from the original website that isn't present in the mirror, take your time!

[Edited on 10-11-2015 by Agari]

aga - 10-11-2015 at 13:31

Oh Dear.

Agari appears to be a Khazakstan Counter-Terrorist Intelligence Agent.

(it's part of the Tax Agency, also responsible for Telecommunications).

The Volatile Chemist - 10-11-2015 at 15:33

Been drinking?
What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

Agari - 10-11-2015 at 17:41

Been drinking?
What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

RogueSci is more than a k00k site. I have not been on it much,but it appears to be dealing with the preparation of energetic materials and pharmaceuticals. I actually found it while reading into Astrolites A and G. The link I provided only has part of the data,and another member has recovered a portion dealing with microwave chemistry,which I have still not looked at.
Funny,I got the idea to post the Deep Web link after finding a thread dealing with TNT in the Energetic Materials section of ScienceMadness.

Bert - 10-11-2015 at 18:08

Quote:

What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

Roguesci.org was home to the E&W forum.

One moderator was NBK2000, aka Art Carnes. Who was a proud US prison system varietal neonazi, and published there such things as this lovely short story about flying a light plane over a Florida Spring break beach, spraying the college kids with a mixture of mustard gas and lewisite.

http://parazite.nn.fi/roguesci/index.php/t-4226.html

Threads on synthesis of cholinesterase inhibitor nerve agents from over the counter ingredients? A-OK! (And they did come up with plausible paths to sarin, etc.) Uploading the complete Philip Luty books on home made submachine guns? Highly approved. Discussion of improvised directional fragmentation mines, and testing of same- With commentary on their use in the coming race wars? All good.

Regardless, it was not without certain charms. More than a few older members here were also found on roguesci.

Agari - 10-11-2015 at 18:25

Quote:

What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

I just read the story.I have to say,that is pretty screwed over.

Threads on synthesis of cholinesterase inhibitor nerve agents from over the counter ingredients? A-OK! (And they did come up with plausible paths to sarin, etc.) Uploading the complete Philip Luty books on home made submachine guns? Highly approved. Discussion of improvised directional fragmentation mines, and testing of same- With commentary on their use in the coming race wars? All good.

Regardless, it was not without certain charms. More than a few older members here were also found on roguesci.

I saw a few Nerve Agent threads talking about increasing the toxicity of pesticides.
Plausible path to Sarin? Just what other crazy (pardon my language) shit is on there?
Edit:I found the thread talking about the synthesis of Sarin. I don't know whether or not Sarin is actually being produced here,the poster seems too casual about something that can easily kill anyone that attempts the synthesis. Will anybody dare try this

.

[Edited on 11-11-2015 by Agari]

Agari - 10-11-2015 at 18:52

I have another question in case any RogueSci veterans might be reading this thread: Around what time was RogueSci brought down?

[Edited on 11-11-2015 by Agari]

The Volatile Chemist - 11-11-2015 at 16:48

Been drinking?
What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

I see. Reminiscent of the recent recovery of some of the Versuchschemie.de website (though it was more licit).

[Edited on 11-12-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]

JJay - 12-11-2015 at 01:48

I hadn't realized that RogueSci is down, but I'm definitely going to try to grab the data from that hidden site. I think I have a virtual machine image with Tor on it here somewhere....

[Edited on 10-11-2015 by Agari]

Actually, no, I never registered on RogueSci, but I do remember pulling procedures off of it a couple of times.

Agari - 12-11-2015 at 17:07

Ah,I finally dug up the link to the Sarin thread,I won't share it though.
I found a comment on the thread though,I think we should all see it:

Posted by user:Chris The Great

Quote:

Since I started doing some research into this area with the intention of making a few mL of VX (much lower evaporation rate of sarin makes it much easier and safer to handle, despite the much higher toxicity). Since I started looking for info on sarin first, I got a basic (though undetailed) synthesis which was different from Mega's synthesis, although I didn't actually look on the forum for any synthesis info while doing this, (http://s-a-t.org/images/sarin/siryo/hyoka/seto-zu-2.jpg), and used by a terrorist organization, so I know it works. I then decided VX would be better to make, but the only information I found was a synthesis that was reportably very difficult (it didn't go into details). So, I simply decided to use the sarin synthesis with a modified ending to end up with VX, and figure out the rest based on what I already knew.

Of course, this is still in the research phase, and I don't yet have ftp access, although I did get a hold of the book by a link posted in this thread http://www.roguesci.org/theforum/showthread.php?t=1537 on page two. Another goal of this is to use ONLY chemicals that are extremely easy to get. Right now, there some parts I'm not 100% sure about, and so have marked with a (?) after that part.

Funny,the thread also mentioned the Soman nerve agent.
At least the users weren't being serious,right?

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by Agari]

Mathias94 - 13-11-2015 at 01:10

IIRC there is an archive of RogueSci on: thevespiary.org

edit: You might not want to visit thevespiary.org on a public place, or without some kind of VPN.

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by Mathias94]

JJay - 13-11-2015 at 03:08

LoL, sarin....

"What did you do over the weekend?" "Oh I just whipped up a batch of sarin and fumigated the neighborhood. You?"

I personally steer clear of anything more toxic than cyanide. Anyway, I now have a copy of the RogueSci archive; there are some other archives on that hidden site... any that you recommend?

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by JJay]

Agari - 13-11-2015 at 15:18

LoL, sarin....

"What did you do over the weekend?" "Oh I just whipped up a batch of sarin and fumigated the neighborhood. You?"

I personally steer clear of anything more toxic than cyanide. Anyway, I now have a copy of the RogueSci archive; there are some other archives on that hidden site... any that you recommend?

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by JJay]

Let's just say that the sarin thread is under "Battlefield Chemistry" and the thread number is above 80 but below 134. The path is plausible,but it is known that nerve agents need to be stabilized in some way. The thread also mentioned Soman,another nerve agent,that follows a similar path. Anyways,hopefully either the guide was fake or that some demented terrorist doesn't come across it,that will probably end with extremely tight regulations regarding chemical purchases. Will anybody dare try the synthesis route

.The most toxic substance I will ever come in contact is probably phosgene,I don't see myself dealing with it in the foreseeable future though. Funny,if you read the procedure closely,it calls for handling the gas.
As for your second question,I don't know what area of chemistry you are interested in,so I will give a rundown of the sections that deal with any area of chemistry or are relevant to chemistry. The ATF Orange Book archive deals with laws and regulations regarding explosives,but I assume you are either familiar with the relevant parts or are not an explosives enthusiast. The "Consequences" page is extremely graphic and shows possible outcomes of misuse of energetic materials,but sadly,it is too graphic for the forum,perhaps a simple link to it in the EM section and a warning will do? http://nope7beergoa64ih.onion/Consequences/
A good chemistry archive would be http://nope7beergoa64ih.onion/Douchermann/ this website isn't all about explosives and weapons of mass destruction! You might want to check this one out if you aren't very interested in explosives. Too bad that only a few synthesis pages are actually functional.
N3chem also deals with azides, also explosive. I think you should see the general direction where all of the chemistry pages on this hidden site are heading towards.
Mokothar's development seems to have stopped short,the only file is a simple formula regarding nitration and the fraction of sulfuric acid left after distilling it with a nitrate salt.
The SMDB archive contains a few chemistry-related publications,it might be interesting,I haven't begun reading them yet,but it looks promising.
Edit:Rhodium is a "cook" section,avoid that in case anybody finds out and makes the wrong connections.

[Edited on 14-11-2015 by Agari]

Agari - 13-11-2015 at 15:52

Anyway, I now have a copy of the RogueSci archive

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by JJay]

Did you use the 18JAN2009 website rather than the December of 2008 one though?

The Volatile Chemist - 15-11-2015 at 14:27

Sciencemadness should 'go onion'

Just kidding, but it would be fun to have an archive there for SM.
To let the users of TOR fear my...terrible posts...

[Edited on 11-15-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]

Marvin - 15-11-2015 at 16:07

I can't speak much on the subject of war gasses and never would want to, but the standard of chemistry on SM has always been much higher than at roguesci in every area I know. RS had a lot of very stubborn people, some with quite a limited education in chemistry and a fuck ton of kewls.

The controversial chem lab was better than a ledgard text, but that's not saying much. Mega was highly resistant to correcting anything. His sole reason for thinking Guanidine Carbonate was an explosive turned out be that Davis makes it via an explosive compound and Mega didn't think he'd turn an explosive compound into a non explosive one. His faith in that logic surprised me and it was not corrected.

Agari - 15-11-2015 at 17:22

Quote: Originally posted by Marvin

I can't speak much on the subject of war gasses and never would want to, but the standard of chemistry on SM has always been much higher than at roguesci in every area I know. RS had a lot of very stubborn people, some with quite a limited education in chemistry and a fuck ton of kewls.

The controversial chem lab was better than a ledgard text, but that's not saying much. Mega was highly resistant to correcting anything. His sole reason for thinking Guanidine Carbonate was an explosive turned out be that Davis makes it via an explosive compound and Mega didn't think he'd turn an explosive compound into a non explosive one. His faith in that logic surprised me and it was not corrected.

The part about RS being full of kewls is somewhat believable,the forum was dedicated to WMDs and explosives....
Wow! Mega posted that Guanidine Carbonate was explosive? Can you link that post please?I would really like to see it.
You have to absolutely LOVE how the user does not talk about byproducts in the Sarin synthesis reaction,especially after the part in the instructions telling the reader to add methyl iodide.
Edit:I'm actually surprised that the forum did not come up with a theory of turning thiodiglycol(Solvent found in pen ink) into mustard gas,they are structurally similar, and thiodiglycol was even used as a precursor to mustard gas. Sure,thiodiglycol is found in trace amounts in pens,but pens are cheap,enough said.

[Edited on 16-11-2015 by Agari]

Agari - 16-11-2015 at 20:05

I can't edit my above post again(are they on a timer?),so I will post again. There is a thread from 2004 which I found through a google search where the original poster posted a supposed how-to guide on VX,but another pointed out that the procedure produced VM,both are extremely toxic.The synthesis sounds plausible,but I haven't looked into it.
I think this is going too far into chemical weapons,we should start discussing something else related to RogueSci.

Marvin - 17-11-2015 at 04:50

This is just a web gateway link.
http://nope7beergoa64ih.onion.link/Roguesci/MIT/explo/guanid...
It's part of the chemlab rather than the forum, the discussion to correct may be in the forum but I don't know where. A more recent grab by Hinckleyforpresident has better html for the chemlab, but the information is exactly the same.

Agari - 17-11-2015 at 16:45

Quote: Originally posted by Marvin

This is just a web gateway link.
http://nope7beergoa64ih.onion.link/Roguesci/MIT/explo/guanid...
It's part of the chemlab rather than the forum, the discussion to correct may be in the forum but I don't know where. A more recent grab by Hinckleyforpresident has better html for the chemlab, but the information is exactly the same.

Wow,the author even states that he only knows the synthesis of the compound,and not much more. He could have at least done some reading before posting that guanidine carbonate was explosive.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-11-2015 at 10:27

What's with the 'chemlab'? I saw it once as a google result. What's its purpose?

Agari - 19-11-2015 at 14:43

What's with the 'chemlab'? I saw it once as a google result. What's its purpose?

The purpose of the chemlab was to have a library of syntheses of energetic materials,syntheses using a microwave device,pharmaceuticals,and toxins. When RogueSci went down, only the energetic materials section was complete. I am assuming that RogueSci went down at the beginning of 2010,but I may be wrong. Hopefully,a RS veteran either confirms or corrects my thoughts.

[Edited on 20-11-2015 by Agari]

The Volatile Chemist - 20-11-2015 at 13:34

I see. RS once had a thread on the viability of a distributed website. I suppose nothing became of it, but it would be interesting to try that one's self. What they meant was a set of physically hidden servers using public WiFi to host a forum. Not likely, but possible, to work.

Agari - 20-11-2015 at 14:57

I see. RS once had a thread on the viability of a distributed website. I suppose nothing became of it, but it would be interesting to try that one's self. What they meant was a set of physically hidden servers using public WiFi to host a forum. Not likely, but possible, to work.

I can't find any such thread,do you mind linking it?

The Volatile Chemist - 21-11-2015 at 06:07

Here it is: http://parazite.nn.fi/roguesci/index.php/t-4381.html
'Rogue Servers'. If you Google Polverlone (I always butcher his name...) and distributed website, there's an article by him on some other website about it, too.
Interesting stuff.

JJay - 21-11-2015 at 06:32

You can run a dark web site in VirtualBox pretty easily. Tor doesn't allow load balancing in the same way that it can be done on the regular internet, but I'm sure there are ways to do a distributed website.

Agari - 21-11-2015 at 08:57

Here it is: http://parazite.nn.fi/roguesci/index.php/t-4381.html
'Rogue Servers'.
Interesting stuff.

It is sad that RS was not able to get a botnet of backup servers running before it went down. Your archive is outdated,there are only 100 threads on the site you linked,while the Deep Web site has 239 in just that section of the forum.

[Edited on 21-11-2015 by Agari]

The Volatile Chemist - 22-11-2015 at 15:38

Is 'botnet' what that's called? Also, has anyone ever tried to contact the users and bring them back to any sort of forum? Not that Prov. would like having too many of the ruffians here...
I just searched the web for a backup to show the page I meant.

Agari - 22-11-2015 at 16:01

Is 'botnet' what that's called?

Definition of "botnet":A network of private computers infected with software and controlled as a group.
I think rigging servers to host the RogueSci website would fit right in with that.

[Edited on 23-11-2015 by Agari]

The Volatile Chemist - 22-11-2015 at 16:24

Yeah, but their idea was to host hidden, private, small servers, not infect pre-existing ones, I think.

Agari - 25-11-2015 at 15:50

Yeah, but their idea was to host hidden, private, small servers, not infect pre-existing ones, I think.

Quote:

The original post:
Hmmm....trying to think of how many public libraries, universities, and businesses have static IP's with broadband connections, and how hard would it be to give them a free UPS?

Naturally prices will have to come down a bit more before they become disposable, but I think it's possible that, one day, RS.org could exist not on any one server that can be shut down, but on a TOR'ified distributed network of stealth servers around the world.
Members would run a client application that would let them view and post, with the changes being distributed on an ad hoc basis to the various servers around the world.
Other possibilities are VoIP phones, since they require a broadband connection. Hell, maybe one day microwave ovens and refrigerators could server as RS servers (since everything is getting wired nowadays)
I've seen HTML servers on a chip that cost about $5 that could be hooked up to payphone lines and used as dial-up hosts. Slow as fuck, but any port in a storm, and could serve as a means of getting the log-in info for a faster node of the RS blacknet.

I don't know, it sounds like he is satirically suggesting piggybacking on the servers of public places. On a more serious note, if members could voluntarily allow the RS website to take up their networks,they are technically becoming part of a botnet.
Going back to the topic of chemical weapons:After reading through a few references, it can be concluded that the GB synthesis on the E&W forum will work...in theory(Using cyclohexanol for the synthesis could also possibly work,but it will result in the even deadlier GF rather than GB). Being a k3wl recipe,the synthesis guide left out a few steps in the preparation of the chemicals that it calls for, such as distillation,oil bath heating,etc.,so we should take it with the grain of salt that it deserves to be taken with,especially since it was posted by the same member that thought that Guanidine Carbonate was explosive.Obviously,trying to pull off the method that he suggested would result in death unless you have a full HAZMAT suit and a respirator.
Edit: I am going to read into what the forum has regarding anything besides cookery or weapons of mass destruction.

[Edited on 26-11-2015 by Agari]

iExplore - 26-11-2015 at 04:39

Quote:

What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

Roguesci made for fascinating reading (because who doesn't love taboo stuff and knowledge that "the man" says must never be known!) but far too often it devolved into stuff that made the skin crawl.

I don't recall exactly when it went down - maybe around 2009/2010? For a brief period it looked like it was making a comeback with a site overhaul, but it was never completed.

I actually started lurking here in search of a saner version of roguesci; I wanted to find a place that still discussed topics of interest but where it was done for the love of science rather than mental masturbation over the idea of killing people.

For those who might be interested in the fate of roguesci's infamous moderator NBK, he recently lost an appeal and is still facing 50 to life for murder. Reading through some of the more gruesome details mentioned in the judgment and thinking back to some of his threads... yeah, suddenly you see his posts in a slightly different light, but overall it wasn't surprising.

The following link is to a PDF of the judgment:

http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/nonpub/C071147.PDF

Agari - 26-11-2015 at 09:10

Quote: Originally posted by iExplore

Quote:

What was the purpose of RogueSci? Just another drug-making site, or more than that?

If the website went down in 2009/2010, then the Deep Web site has most of the data mirrored,the latest archive was on January 18th, 2009.
I do not find that someone whose ultimate fantasy was spraying millions of people with a combination of a blistering agent and an organoarsenic compound was found guilty of murder surprising.

This is taken straight from the PDF:

Quote:

Defendant lived in a shed on Matthew Seybert’s Galt property, and worked for
him, although they often argued. Defendant mentioned killing his enemies, and
threatened Seybert in a barn on the property. Defendant showed Timothy Milano his
AK-47 assault rifle, and said he knew how to knock people out with chloroform. On
November 17, 2007, Seybert told a friend he was going to move and not take defendant,
and he expected defendant to be very upset by this news. On November 22, 2007,
Milano went to Seybert’s home and found “a ghost town,” with Seybert’s medications
and computer equipment missing.
On December 4, 2007, peace officers found a bullet hole in Seybert’s bloody
bedroom. Later, they found his severed head and body parts on the property. Seybert’s
body had been stabbed more than 20 times, and he was partly emasculated.

NBK clearly doesn't know how long chloroform actually takes to knock someone out,the woman that testified that Mr.Carnes used chloroform to knock her out probably THOUGHT that it was chloroform,when in reality it was either BROMOform or knockout gas like sevoflurane. I'm surprised that he wasn't found to be not guilty by reason of insanity for all of the other things that he did. How old was Arthur Carnes when he was arrested? Normally,murder amounts to a life sentence,he is either very young or old enough that spending 50 years in prison would be the equivalent of a life sentence.

[Edited on 26-11-2015 by Agari]

careysub - 26-11-2015 at 10:47

Reminds me a bit of Hans Reiser, another violent nerd murderer who was incredibly impressed with his own brilliance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Reiser

And, after having been tripped up by obvious mistakes, felt that his own obvious brilliance was an effective defense, since someone so incredibly smart would never make the mistakes he actually did make. I doubt that in the whole history of the world this defense has ever worked.

JJay - 26-11-2015 at 11:22

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Agari - 26-11-2015 at 11:34

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

I'm assuming that you are talking about how Hans Reiser hid the body of his wife. Yes,NaOH does destroy DNA,which is probably why the cadaver dogs that the police sent to search for Reiser's wife were unable to find anything,only Hans's DNA sample,but his NaOH scheme was unable to save him from prison.

careysub - 26-11-2015 at 11:35

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Labs working with ancient human DNA (and thus need to rigorously destroy contamination) use bleach as their primary tool.

JJay - 26-11-2015 at 11:37

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Didn't he pretty much just confess and lead the police to the body?

Agari - 26-11-2015 at 11:42

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Didn't he pretty much just confess and lead the police to the body?

He confessed as part of a plea bargain for a reduced charge of second-degree murder after the police were able to obtain HIS DNA sample at the crime scene,as well as blood containing Nina's DNA that he forgot to destroy,which the prosecutor used in his case against Reiser,as well as evidence of attempting to hide evidence of the crime.

[Edited on 26-11-2015 by Agari]

JJay - 26-11-2015 at 11:46

Quote: Originally posted by careysub

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Labs working with ancient human DNA (and thus need to rigorously destroy contamination) use bleach as their primary tool.

I know there was an unsuccessful attempt to destroy bloodstains using bleach not far from here several years ago. Of course, they were probably using a 5-10% solution rather than solid hypochlorite.

careysub - 26-11-2015 at 11:47

Sodium hydroxide destroys DNA, right?

Didn't he pretty much just confess and lead the police to the body?

After he was convicted of first degree murder, he was allowed to plead guilty to second degree murder in exchange for revealing the location of his wife's body.

Accepting a plea for a lesser charge after a conviction seems odd to me, but I infer that by allowing this the prosecutors both obtained the location of the body, and (I presume) the impossibility of Reiser appealing the sentence, since he was agreeing he was guilty. So, yeah in the end he confessed and produced the body.

Right up until his leading them to Nina Reiser's body there were vocal members of he IT tech community asserting that he was innocent and that he was being framed/railroaded.

JJay - 26-11-2015 at 12:00

I have to admit, I have very little sympathy for murderers, especially ones who carve up their victims and leave body parts lying around for no reason. Murdering your wife isn't cool either.

Agari - 26-11-2015 at 15:19