Sciencemadness Discussion Board - SECURE YOUR GAS MASK!!

SECURE YOUR GAS MASK!!

NERV - 26-4-2003 at 14:13

I read a topic at rogue science a few days ago on how bubbling Cl through a NaOH H2O2 solution created free oxygen radicals that emitted a red glow. I had set up an addition funnel to add HCL to bleach in a 2-neck flask. A tube led from the other neck to a 200ml RB flask filled with a NaOH H2O2 mixture. Well being a dumb ass I didn't secure my gas mask up all the way. When I added the first few drops of HCl everything went well so I sped it up. Then all of a sudden I felt a horrible pain as I got a lung full of Cl gas. I spent the next half-hour coughing my lungs out. My chest still aches even though it has been a 3 hours since I inhaled it. So the morale of the story is… SECURE YOUR DAMN GAS MASK!

[Edited on 22-9-2002 by NERV]

I am a fish - 26-4-2003 at 15:41

Go to a doctor immediately. Chlorine poisoning can have nasty secondary effects such as fluid accumulation in the lungs and bacterial superinfection.

Haggis - 26-4-2003 at 15:45

"Pulmonary Edema" The way it kills you is 'dryland drowning'. This is where the alveoli fill with fluid and you cannot secure oxygen. I reccommend that you see a health professional about this. What type of mask did you use? Why wasn't it tightened?

DDTea - 26-4-2003 at 18:21

Hmm, I have never had such a bad exposure to Chlorine! Geeze, I've never understood how people have hurt themselves this badly with it. I've made it countless times, I use it to test my gas-mask preparedness, and I have even sometimes inhaled it intentionally as a reminder of why I want to avoid it

.

Now, I have a few basic rules to keep in mind when putting on a gas mask...

1- Never use a filter that has experienced more than 8 hours of exposure!

2- This is especially the case for the Canadian Gas Masks: ensure the voice emitter is tightly secured, otherwise it may leak!

3- Do not put on a pre-tightened gas mask (well, a LITTLE pre-tightened, but not all the way). First of all, trying to force it on could cause a strap to pop off, creating a terrible situation to be in if there is a dangerous chemical about. Second, it may loosen a strap as you put it on, creating an insecure seal.

4- Instead, put on a semi-tightened gas mask, and then tighten ALL straps as much as possible.

5- Hold your breath before you put your gas mask on. When it is on your face, exhale completely. This is to purge any "bad" air in your mask.

6- To test the security of your seal, put your hand over your filter, and hold your breath. Your mask should stick to your face for several seconds.

7- When your mask is not in use, always keep the filter covered. Your filter should have come with a rubber sealer that you can press into your filter's hole. Also, it should have a screw-on cover.

8- Buy a Chemical Hood! These work very well, and serve as a reinforcement of existing chemical protection. Not only do they cover the back of your head an neck, but also ensure that all potential leaks on your mask are SEALED.

The mask I currently use is a Canadian C5 (I believe some people also call it an "M-69"

. So far, I have had no problems with it when it comes to protection from Chlorine, Ammonia, Hydrogen Chloride, and Pulverized NaOH.

NERV - 26-4-2003 at 18:24

The gas mask is a norton brand, with organic vapor, and acid gas fillter cartrages. The mask was unintentionaly unsecure I had tightend it, but when I got that wiff of Cl I realised that it had slipped down a bit. I will go get a check up at the doctors as soon as I can.

Haggis - 26-4-2003 at 19:51

What exactly are you going to say to the doctor? The best excuse possible for this would to say that you accidentally mixed two cleaning chemicals in the bathroom. He will brush the chlorine poisoning as an accident, thus freeing you from questions. I suggest getting as much fresh, clean air as possible. Try out your lungs in the morning, if they are better, good. If they still hurt bad, you better make a visit.

I am a fish - 27-4-2003 at 00:32

Quote:

The best excuse possible for this would to say that you accidentally mixed two cleaning chemicals in the bathroom.

That's a good idea. Say that the two chemicals 'involved' were bleach and some kind of limescale remover (which would release chlorine), rather than bleach and an ammonia based product (which would release chloramines).

DeusExMachina - 27-4-2003 at 06:08

where the hell do you get a gas mask from? I live in Toronto I really want one. Any help with this? Also, how much is a gas mask regularly?

EDIT: I have found two military surlplus stores. In case anyone here is from or around toronto, I'll give you the name of the stores and some other information.

M & M Sporting Goods & Military Surplus

1802 Eglinton W
York, ON M6E2H6
Phone: (416) 787-1460
_________________________________
Save-More Surplus Store Ltd.

114 Queen St. E.
Toronto, ON M5C 1S6
Mon-Wed 9:00am-6:00pm
Thu-Fri 9:00am-8:00pm
Sat 9:00am-5:45pm
Sun CLOSED
Tel: (416) 368-3536
Fax: (416) 368-6384

[Edited on 27-4-2003 by DeusExMachina]

DDTea - 27-4-2003 at 12:39

I bought my mask off eBay for $15

. Now, I'm not saying my mask is 100% safe, and is probably a good 5-10 years old...but so far, so good...

When buying gas masks, first and foremost make sure it fits! When you put it on, cover the breathing hole and hold your breath. The mask must stick to your face for 10 seconds to ensure a good seal...if it does not, then there are leaks. Either tighten it more, or find a better size.

Also, do not buy any Russian masks! I have heard very bad things about them!
Also, be wary of the German masks too. If I were you, I would look for the latest American masks...there is one American mask, however, that has a dangerous flaw. I think it was the M-17, and it was in service during the Gulf War. Look for the latest American masks, the M40 series; they are excellent! I have also found the Canadian masks to be very good.

Make sure that the filter you buy is NEW. It should also be sealed, in a can or plastic bag. Check the date too; you don't want anything from before about 1995...filters are only made to last, I think, 8-10 years. But in general, newer is better! The standard filter for Western masks is 40mm NATO standard. If possible, buy more than 1 filter. You should not expose to your filter to more than 8 hours of cumulative exposure.

And also, if they are selling them, buy a chemical hood. They are extremely beneficial in securing your gas mask!

DeusExMachina - 27-4-2003 at 12:45

what's a chemical hood and are israeli gas masks good? one of the stores that I listed said that they are selling new israeli gas masks.

DDTea - 27-4-2003 at 12:54

It depends on which Israeli mask you are looking for. They will both protect you from poison gas, but the civilian model's lenses tend to fog up...that is the major complaint I've heard about them.

The new military model, however, looks very good! I'm not sure if they've taken care of the fogging problem or not, but it has a voice emitter and a drinking tube. It also uses the 40mm NATO filter, which is very easy to find.

Chemical hoods are just that- Hoods that you wear over your mask. They are designed to cover your neck and shoulder area.

EDIT: be wary of the Israeli masks, however. They have a tendency to give the defective ones to foreigners... In fact, there was a big story a few months ago about Israelis giving used and defective masks to foreigners in Israel.

[Edited on 4-27-03 by Samosa]

madscientist - 27-4-2003 at 15:34

As for pulmonary edema: you know you have it if you have trouble breathing when lying down, but don't have trouble breathing when standing up.

NERV - 27-4-2003 at 16:25

Well it seems I am fine. I havent been able to see a doctor yet, but my lungs no longer hurt, and I havent had any breathing trouble at all. If nothing shows up by tommarow then I geuss it would be safe to assume that I am not going to die.

Glad to hear you're okay so far

madscientist - 27-4-2003 at 16:38

Here's a good page with information on pulmonary edema. Check it out. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000140.htm

foomhood - 28-4-2003 at 00:09

What will you do when you go over a burning hill
or a destrict of a capital and some nerv-gas
will be collected on top of the hill.
Your will loosing your hairs before you can
protect yourself with a gas mask or you loosing your life!
Important also the way from where the wind cames !!

The_Davster - 10-4-2005 at 17:07

I recently purchased a respirator. It says " Organic Vapors and Acid Gases with P100 particulate filter" on the package. The cartridge number is R53HE-P100. However the actual cartridge says "Approved to provide respiratory protection against organic vapors, chlorine, hydrogen chloride, sulfur dioxide, chlorine dioxide, and hydrogen fluoride with a P100 particulate filter which is effective against all solid & liquid aerosols (99.97% filter efficiency level)."

Are these cartridges good enough for nitric acid fumes? On one hand it is an acid gas/organic vapour cartridge,but on the other hand nitric acid is not mentioned specifically, while HCl is.

uber luminal - 10-4-2005 at 19:25

the important part of the gas mask is the filter. You could buy a chemical resistant half mask, put in the filters (assuming they fit exactly) and wear chemical goggles.

as for Cl in the lungs, when I had my exposure, I freaked out and called the poison control center and told them exactly what happened. (so they would know it was Cl2 rather than some other gas, with me thinking its Cl2). The guy on the phone joked that I would either be dead or in a hospital if I was in any real danger, but that I should go to a doctor asap, or emergancy room if I was having a difficult time breathing while trying to sleep (laying down) over the next 48 hours. He said if I survive a week without any breathing issues, I am probably off the hook this time.

JohnWW - 10-4-2005 at 19:55

I bought a new ex-army gas mask from a war surplus shop in New Zealand a few years ago, for about $NZ30.

The_Davster - 11-4-2005 at 16:46

uber luminal, the filter is the same thing as the cartridges.

The origional question still stands, are these cartridges good enough for nitric acid fumes? I know a separate type of cartridge is needed for NO2, but is another type needed for nitric acid when it is an acid gas respirator?

unionised - 12-4-2005 at 10:14

Is it just me who's wondering if this is a good topic for discussion.
Let's face it, a bad gas mask is worse than none at all and buying over the 'net doesn't usually come with much of a warranty. Even if they do offer a lifetime guarantee, that's the problem... how long will your lifetime be if you rely on a mask.

It reminds me of the scam about selling nuclear shelters, it didn't matter how bad you made them, you never got a complaint form a dissatisfied customer.

Concentration

MadHatter - 12-4-2005 at 19:54

I wonder how high the concentration of chlorine was ? I've been exposed to it many
times during chlorate production. I would also wonder about adequate ventilation. I keep
a fan in front of my window when running the cell. If I go to a larger cell(currently 2 gallons)
I may find myself in need of a gas mask. For right now that gas is an irritant more than
anything else. No complaints from the neighbours - YET ! I've smelled chlorine coming
from some of their apartments as well. Am I living in a building full of pyros ?

sparkgap - 12-4-2005 at 20:19

MadHatter:

"...No complaints from the neighbours - YET ! I've smelled chlorine coming
from some of their apartments as well..."

Three things off the top of my head:

1) They have indoor swimming pools

2) They just happen to be crazy about chlorine-bleaching their homes (you know, with all the ph3ars0m3 bacteria lurking about...).
3) (most unlikely) they are doing the same experiments as you are, and so you should be talking to them more.

unionised:

"...you never got a complaint from a dissatisfied customer..."

Well, I quote, "Dead men tell no tales..."

sparky (^_^)

P.S. My country shall fear me now... (points to the left)

[Edited on 13-4-2005 by sparkgap]

Chlorine

MadHatter - 12-4-2005 at 20:38

No indoor swimming pools here ! I'm hoping for fellow pyros who are not KEWL !

Zinc - 13-7-2006 at 04:32

My chemistry teacher gave me and my friend gas masks (to each of us one). They are very old (45 years) so I think that they do not work anymore.

woelen - 13-7-2006 at 05:34

I never have felt the need for a gas mask. Small scale gas experiments I do under a fume hood (not a professional one, but good enough to draw away test tube scale emissions of toxic gasses like Cl2, H2S, SO2). I only do experiments under these conditions with gasses that I can smell very well (Cl2, Br2, SO2, NO2, H2S, HN3, NH3, and a few more, but for me not HCN).

When I perform experiments on a little larger scale (erlenmeijer stuff, 50 ml or more), then I definitely go outside and wait for a dry and windy day (and we have a lot of those over here in NL

) for the experiments. I am lucky to have a large backyard, so there are no unwanted people wondering what all that hassling with glasswork and chems is.

Having to wear a gasmask seems most unpleasant to me. I expect it to feel very warm and sweaty.

evil_lurker - 13-7-2006 at 07:42

I love my MSA airline respirator...

No cartridges to mess with, no worries of break thru, just put it on and go... hell the damn thing doesn't even fog. Its actually fairly comfortable... I have worn it up to an hour or so at a time.

Just put it on your face, pull the two straps in the back till you get a good tight seal and plug it in to your airline and your all set.

Since its an on demand rather than constant pressure it does take a bit of getting used to as it takes a bit more effort to inhale and exhale.