blogfast25, I now know how you must be feeling. Just got a visit from the FBI and local sheriff. They didn't have a warrant so they didn't get
inside, but a thousand questions. Kind of embarrassing having their car parked out front the whole time. Hope it doesn't turn into anything else,
although I'm waiting for the return visit with warrant in hand. Will keep all informed. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst. j_sum1 - 11-9-2016 at 17:53
Yeouch!
Get yourself mentally prepared.
Anticipate the questions they might ask and how you might best respond.
Think of some questions to ask them.
Call a lawyer if you have time -- just to get a bit of relevant advice.Arg0nAddict - 22-9-2016 at 05:29
I have been though this first hand in America. Wish I could help but listen to when he said be quiet and i'm saying in now. nothing said can help it
up to him and his lawyer. I got 111 day in jail with no prison time. He will get in a fight its all part of being in that they test you. I used wits
to survive and it it works. throw the first punch dont fight like a street thug or you will lose. in jail be invisible. Prison is different. you will
fight for your life. whenever you win or lose always take the big guy first and dont cheat, eye gouge or dick smash will get you killed take a win or
loss humble and immediately help up the guy, gaining proper respect and you're the new guy whose has nobody. Do not cheat. unless someone tries rape.
then you fight to the death. it got attempted on me because i kept my appearance up I look nice i t gives me a reason to live. I was warned and have
access to microwave and butter. not a sole came close to bothering me and even though I like woman those gays guys hate rape and surprising no gang
gang needed i just impressed the big man who basically called the shots even though he likes guys which doesn't bother me. the mistake i made was the
blindings. but if you try rape on me you will always remember. Oh yeah do no trust anyone your on your own but at times take advantage. scolding oil
down the drain the the 3 mysterious blinding. dont rat an nothing rats on you. Jail/proson turns a nerd evil but you get over it. my conscience got to
me that i blinded 3 people so i talked to the who said he saw the whole thing hidden cams in lunch, he said that was unique and in that situatuon I
cannot punish you. You came to me out of guilt. that alone says you did the first thing you coud to disable a 3 on 1 attack and you ran off you could
have killed then all but you wanted out. I was released the next day due to pstd. so it worked out for me
ficolas - 22-9-2016 at 06:06
What is going on?
Is blogfast in prision?
And what is that thing you described, that doesnt sound like the kind of prision tha exists in my country.
And why FBI and prision? D:Texium - 22-9-2016 at 06:08
Nope, nobody is in prison. I don't know what the hell Arg0nAddict is going on about.
Edit: Weird timing, but yay, 2000th post
[Edited on 9-23-2016 by zts16]arkoma - 22-9-2016 at 14:18
I have these concerns. I have drug arrests. Right now I have a reflux apparatus on my kitchen counter and I leave my door open.
However, I KNOW all my neighbors and I keep notes of EVERYTHING and I am NOT making any drugs or energetics. Fucktard's decide to make my life
miserable they ain't getting me to kowtow, and my jury trial and lawsuit ought to be interesting.alive&kickin - 22-9-2016 at 18:19
Not to be mean or sound disrespectful, but does anyone have any idea or understand what Arg0nAddict is talking about? Maybe someone can translate for
me.elementcollector1 - 22-9-2016 at 18:50
I think... I think he's saying he was in prison and was nearly raped, then blinded three people? Sounds legit.MrHomeScientist - 23-9-2016 at 05:35
And yet he "got 111 day in jail with no prison time. "
I have these concerns. I have drug arrests. Right now I have a reflux apparatus on my kitchen counter and I leave my door open.
However, I KNOW all my neighbors and I keep notes of EVERYTHING and I am NOT making any drugs or energetics. Fucktard's decide to make my life
miserable they ain't getting me to kowtow, and my jury trial and lawsuit ought to be interesting.
Jury trials are a gamble, Arkoma. I'd rather plead guilty to some quack lesser charge than face one.
Justice systems still suck, even in the 'developed world'.Maroboduus - 23-9-2016 at 11:10
And yet he "got 111 day in jail with no prison time. "
?
MrHomeScientist, if you're asking what I think you're asking, prison is doing state or federal time. It's more than a year, I believe, in a
correctional facility where everybody has been convicted of a felony. Jail is just where they put you locally, both before trial and after conviction
for a misdemeanor.
Jail means less than a year for each crime you're convicted of, but you can be there for years if you're serving for several misdemeanors.
At least that's how it is in the USA in the States I'm familiar with.
MrHomeScientist - 23-9-2016 at 12:31
Ah ha, I always thought prison and jail were synonymous. Thanks.Arg0nAddict - 24-9-2016 at 04:24
I honestly have no idea what that post means.
The screen shot is accurate though. Anyway I made a video like 5 years ago on NI3 very safe and yet it was still deleted on appeal. When I questioned
them asking why grant is able to show horrendous safety precautions they deflected.
My Facebook page, and we'll all social accounts were hacked and vandalized. No I was not raped hahaha someone's out for me and I recently saw posts of
grant Thompson very near my house. Strange coincidence I don't know.
Anyway if there are posts from me that make so sense...assume it's not me. I don't even drink so not a way in hell I posted that mumbo jumbo. I've
never even been in a fight. Wtf do I know. Maybe argon is not such a good gas. Ha jail and prison tho are completely different. I have a feeling that
well. Back to the border.. see yaTexium - 24-9-2016 at 10:27
So you're saying that somebody else logged into your account and posted that with a screenshot attached that actually is yours? That doesn't make any
sense. Change your password if that's really what happened. Make it a very strong one. If this keeps happening we'll have to assume that you're
trolling and that won't end well for you.aga - 24-9-2016 at 15:00
Ah ha, I always thought prison and jail were synonymous. Thanks.
Convicted Criminals can be served with a prison sentence, meaning that a certain time period should be served in a Gaol (Jail).
The actual time in a custodial facility (aka Jail) tends to get 'commuted' depending on the crime, and the time already 'served' whilst waiting for
trial (if applicable).
For more mundane crimes, the convict tends to serve less Time than the handed-down sentence-Time.
E.g. if you Intentionally gas your neighbour with N2O and get arrested/convicted etc, then your sentence could be 3 years in prison.
If you waited (in custody) for 6 months for the trial, then you have a max of 2.5 years in a custodial facility, as you already spent 6 months in one.
If you plea-bargain and plead guilty to the lesser charge of Unitintenional Accidental Release, maybe 1.5 years ( less the 6 months = 1 year).
With Good Conduct you could be out in 6 months, despite the original 3 year custodial sentence.
In all events, do Not break the Law, or it will break You.Maroboduus - 24-9-2016 at 15:49
The American criminal attorneys I've worked for draw a definite distinction between jail and prison. This distinction is substantially as I have
explained. Perhaps Your knowledge exceeds that of these professionals. If so I would be most interested to hear where you acquired this knowledge.
For misdemeanors the sentence(In American jails, where misdemeanor time is served) is often reduced for good behavior. This is a generally 25% to 33%
leeway the sheriffs are given to use as leverage to maintain order in the facility. Time served before conviction is subtracted from the sentence.
Here in the US, the power of 'commutation' generally lies with the executive of that jurisdiction (Obama or your friendly local state Governor,
depending on if its a federal or state beef) and is not really all that commonly exercised.
Your spelling of the term 'jail'(gaol) Makes me think you may be talking about British law, as that spelling is not currently used here.
[Edited on 24-9-2016 by Maroboduus]
EDIT: Looking over this, I see that I just made a rather snide post and I apologize for that. I know this thread is about serious stuff, and although
I don't know the original poster of this thread I share a genuine concern for his welfare in this frightening situation. -Sorry for the distraction.
[Edited on 25-9-2016 by Maroboduus]RogueRose - 24-9-2016 at 17:42
Is it me or do both of ArgonA's posts seem like he is huffing something.j_sum1 - 24-9-2016 at 22:07
Back on topic...
Any updates alive&kickin?alive&kickin - 29-9-2016 at 06:45
j_sum1, no visit yet, but from what other friends in law enforcement have told me the visit with the warrant is on the way. Also found out that the
FBI and sheriff were sent by homeland security. Things don't look good. A warning for everyone, watch what you put in an e-mail as apparently no
matter how innocent it is, someone somewhere is reading it, and if they don't understand, things can get bad.violet sin - 29-9-2016 at 18:49
What would they be able to pin on you though? Is it going to be a matter of their oppinion as to what you had planned for some specific chemicals of
interest, or actual energetic/bioactive substances, impropper ordering from suppliers, unsuitable storage, danger to the public...?
Looking at the posts you have made here, I don't really see a connection to illegal activities, energetics or illicit substances?! Puzzling, as I had
(perhaps naively) assumed one would need be wrapped up in something obviously bad. Either on the forum or posted elsewhere, possibly in person; in
order to get chased down.
I hope this ends well for you, as it looks like it may be an overreaction to a curious mind. Hopefully you dont get put through the ringer for
naught.Deathunter88 - 29-9-2016 at 19:12
blogfast25, I now know how you must be feeling. Just got a visit from the FBI and local sheriff. They didn't have a warrant so they didn't get
inside, but a thousand questions. Kind of embarrassing having their car parked out front the whole time. Hope it doesn't turn into anything else,
although I'm waiting for the return visit with warrant in hand. Will keep all informed. Hoping for the best, expecting the worst.
Ok maybe it's because I'm only 15 and don't know a lot about how the adult world works, but I would think that the end result would be better if you
just let them in. I mean, if you're not doing anything illegal what's the problem with showing them your setup and your lab notebook? I would think
that cooperating with them and showing your enthusiasm for chemistry would turn out better than barring the door and forcing them to get a search
warrant. NedsHead - 29-9-2016 at 21:02
Because a search warrant is there to protect both parties, it draws a clear line in the sand and if that line is crossed by either parties legal
action can be taken, I wouldn't allow police into my home without a warrant for the same reason I wouldn't hand out signed blank cheques
[Edited on 30-9-2016 by NedsHead]MrHomeScientist - 30-9-2016 at 06:33
There are two camps in the home chemistry hobby: the ones who are open and honest about their hobby, and the ones who lock all the doors, close the
curtains, and don't even tell their family what they're doing. I'm with the first group (if you couldn't tell) - if anyone ever gets suspicious, I
have a huge network of friends and professional contacts that know what I'm doing and can confirm it's nothing nefarious. I feel like being secretive
can only lead to trouble down the road. No one should be ashamed of this hobby and think they need to hide it from everyone.Texium - 30-9-2016 at 07:06
Not to mention the suspicion that is aroused simply by demanding a search warrant. If you let them come in when they show up for a surprise visit, it
shows that you have nothing to hide, and they probably won't turn over every couch cushion and open every cabinet. If you demand a warrant, when they
come back they'll be checking every nook and cranny to make sure that you haven't hidden the illegal items (that they now have good reason to expect
to find) while they were away getting their warrant. Then when they still don't find anything, they'll put you down on their records as being
inconclusive, and keep a close eye on you in the future.
Tl;dr: demanding a search warrant doesn't do you any favors. It just gives the police/FBI/DHS/DEA or whoever a new reason to suspect you of
wrongdoing.NedsHead - 30-9-2016 at 07:58
Demanding is one thing, voicing your concerns and respectfully asking is completely different, the way I see it, if I'm expected to accurately fill
out dozens of Government forms per year and failing to do so (or do so accurately e.g. Taxes, licensing, firearm registration) could land me in prison
then the least they can do is fill out the paperwork on their end, I don't get any special treatment so why should they? mayko - 30-9-2016 at 10:04
(every situation is different and I'm not qualified to give legal advice but...)
Asserting one's rights isn't legal grounds for suspicion so far as I am aware, and if the police treat it as such, you really might be better off
getting the warrant anyway. (In fact, in my years of refusing consent to search, I've been frequently told it was suspicious and even threatened with
arrest for it, but in all cases the cops were transparently bluffing). It's the job of the police to treat everyone as a suspect (as many victims
learn upon reporting crime). By the time they're knocking on your door, I wouldn't bank on trying to talk your way out of suspicion, or allay it by
surrendering your rights.
Should they decide to go ahead and search your place (or if they've already decided), the warrant is unlikely to hurt you, and may well help. It'll
take a lawyer to do so, and that'll be a pain, but once the knock arrives, it's possible, maybe even probable that it's a sunk cost. (With the FBI
involved, I certainly hope that the OP has lawyered up already!) I got busted some years ago, and I'll obviously never know what would have happened
if I'd ceded my rights, but I am confident that asserting them helped the outcome.
The case of Byron Sonne and Kristen Peterson is a good (pragmatic) counterexample to the idea that only the guilty have something to hide: that they
possessed only the materials for legitimate amateur rocketry didn't stop the cops from charging them as terrorists. http://boingboing.net/2012/04/01/closing-week-of-torontos-g2...
This is more about why it's often best to remain silent, but many of the principles discussed apply (pay attention to the discussion of documentation,
for example): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE Texium - 30-9-2016 at 10:42
I still vehemently disagree. If the police are decent, level-headed people then allowing them to search without a warrant shows that you don't have
anything to hide and are willing to cooperate. If they're assholes who have you pegged as guilty from the get-go and will go out of their way to
invade your privacy, I don't see how having a search warrant is going to make anything better. Whether it's legal grounds for suspicion or not means
absolutely nothing. Even if they have no real evidence against you, you can be sure that if someone reports you again they're going to go into it with
negative predispositions, whereas if you were open and polite to them the first time they might even blow it off.
You can't pretend that the law is some blind and totally logical system where inherently suspicious actions are not treated as such simply because
they are legal. Innocent until proven guilty is a great principle, but unfortunately it doesn't always hold up in practice.
From the police's point of view, everyone they interview says they are innocent.
Add to that the fact that they deal 99% of the time with criminal scumbags, it must be near impossible for them to believe a single word anyone ever
says.j_sum1 - 30-9-2016 at 13:55
If the police come with a warrant, they get to search.
If they come without one then I get to show them stuff.
One is considerably more invasive than the other.
In my situation, the only reason for them to come knocking is because something has been intercepted at customs and it is policy for them to follow up
on all such leads. In this case the minimal paperwork and minimal interruption the better.
In alive&kickin's case, he needs every protection he can get. This means warrants, lawyers, advice, testimonials and whatever else is needed.
I feel for you, a&k.
[edit]
I should add that I am in Aus -- along with Tdep and others. A&k is in the US IIRC. Not the same jurisdiction. The two situations are not
directly comparable.
I have had two police visits so far -- and will probably get more. The first was fairly painless. The second was a bit nasty and unfair and my
glassware was confiscated at the border. A warrant would not have helped me at all.
[Edited on 30-9-2016 by j_sum1]aga - 30-9-2016 at 14:12
'Reasons Why' is the key.
Nothing to do with Rockets or Science.
Advertise (in any way) anything that involves drugs or explosives and the police would be Negligent-In-Duty to NOT investigate you.
Basically, Humanity as a whole cannot cope with endless knowledge.
Individual human elements go all Ape with little bits of knowledge and blow things up for absolutely no comprehensible reason.
The Police are there to try to preserve a semblance of sanity in a world that has mostly been behaving insanely.
Damned hard job.mayko - 1-10-2016 at 07:33
Asking for a warrant isn't uncooperative, and it doesn't have to be rude or combative ("It's a nice night; let's talk out here on the porch.").
Getting a warrant if asked is literally part of their job. It's what the police are paid to do. If they're decent folks, they won't mind following the
protocol they're hired to carry out, and they won't hold it against you. ("Just do your job, officer.")
Quote:
If they're assholes who have you pegged as guilty from the get-go and will go out of their way to invade your privacy, I don't see how having a search
warrant is going to make anything better.
There are several ways asking for a warrant can help. For one thing, the police typically can only get one by convincing a magistrate that they have
probable cause for a search. Usually, this happens when the police submit an affidavit justifying their suspicions, and here is where "legal grounds
for suspicion" actually does mean something. The magistrate then may or may not agree with their justification (the search may or may not happen).
They may well decide it isn't worth it.
Another is that in getting a warrant, they usually have to describe what they're looking for and the scope of their search. They can still charge you
for anything they find, but evidence they find might be challenged as being outside the scope of the warrant. It also defines where they're looking
(for example, if they are following a tip about an E&W lab, your sock drawer might be out of bounds - why would they expect bomb-making materials
there?) You don't get these protections if you just let them meander through your dwelling.
Here's another. Should they get a warrant, conduct a search, and press charges, the warrant becomes a rich target for your lawyer. Did they try to
bullshit you with an unsigned form? (It happens!) Did they write down the wrong date? The affidavits the police gave to the magistrate become similar
targets. Does their paperwork contradict their testimony? Did they try to pass off your assertion of rights as probable cause? Evidence could get
thrown out or charges dropped entirely.
Quote:
You can't pretend that the law is some blind and totally logical system where inherently suspicious actions are not treated as such simply because
they are legal. Innocent until proven guilty is a great principle, but unfortunately it doesn't always hold up in practice.
Absolutely; as I've already said, it's the job of police to treat literally everyone as a potential suspect. "Innocent until proven guilty" is how the
*courts* are claimed to operate, but it's completely incompatible with *policing*. This is why it's important to take advantage of the protections
given to suspects, even if you haven't actually done anything wrong and don't believe that you are breaking any law.
Quote:
See Tdep's story for an example of how cooperating with the police can work out just fine: It finally happened, the police showed up
I'm glad that Tdep's encounter went well; ultimately, it's up to individuals to exercise their best judgement about the situation they're faced with,
and if they make it out in one piece, they made the right calls. However, I would be surprised if you can find many lawyers who agrees that speaking
freely with police and consenting to an unwarranted search is a good policy, ESPECIALLY if the FBI or some other federal three-letter-acronym is
involved.
alive&kickin - 9-11-2016 at 08:58
second visit today, same questions, still no warrant but not sounding good XeonTheMGPony - 9-11-2016 at 21:18
At this point you should ask just what is their concern and how can you alleviate it.
Stone walling gives them far more reason to be interested then some basic interaction, they obviously have some reason they're interested, find out
what it is, then mitigate it by showing them it is unfounded.
As others said if it gets to the point they get a warrant they now have all the control, at this point you have it though, so use that control and ask
point blank "What is the concern that is causing you to come here, and how can I disband it?"yobbo II - 11-11-2016 at 09:49
Just got a visit from the FBI and local sheriff. They didn't have a warrant so they didn't get inside, but a thousand questions. Kind of
embarrassing having their .........
What are the questions? (If I may)
[Edited on 11-11-2016 by yobbo II]alive&kickin - 1-12-2016 at 16:50
Just got a second visit, same FBI agent as the first time but a different sheriff. Same questions as first time over and over just worded
differently. They never came right out and said that they wanted in, but it was more than obvious. They were waiting for me to offer an invitation
to come in.
Sorry, I hope I don't offend anybody, but those that say they would let them in and show them everything, I've got to chuckle at the naivety. All it
takes is for them to see anything that might not be in 100% compliance with any regulation and it's nothing but trouble. I'm not going to invite
trouble in. Just a quick example, If you have black powder for a gun but it's not in an explosion proof safe, is it ok or against some regulation
somewhere?
I really don't want to have everything seized because someone doesn't know what they're looking at. All chemicals and glassware taken when they are
ignorant of the items and summon the hazmat team that isn't any smarter. There go the guns, ammunition, and computer because once inside they will
grab all they can. Here come the handcuffs and getting a lawyer is damn expensive.
And when all is said and done, if they can't find some trumped up charge or say he had these chemicals or glassware that could be
used to make drugs or explosives, prison is not a happy thought. And if one is lucky and exonerated, good luck trying to get anything back.
How many here have chemicals that can be made into something dangerous or illegal? Glassware is one sure sign you must be a meth maker. We all know
that no matter what you have, something else could be made with it. Even if one is completely innocent, I think the rule now is
guilty until you prove your innocence. Sorry for the rant, but trouble because I enjoy my hobby that too many do not understand, scares the hell out
of me.
yobbo ll, questions about the element collection and other chemicals:
Q: What kind of elements do you have in your collection?
Me: Just basic stuff that you can find anywhere.
Q: Like what for example?
Me: Tin, copper, lead, sulfur. That kind of stuff.
Q: Where did you get the tin and where do you keep it?
Me: At the bait shop, it's sinkers for fishing and I keep it with all my other ones in the closet.
Q: What do you plan on doing with it?
Me: Nothing really.
Q: Why do you have it and where do you keep it?
Me: Just part of my collection and I keep it in the closet.
Q: Where did you get the copper and where do you keep it?
Me: (thinking, oh god, I'm talking to morons). I got it from scrap wire.
And on and on and on. Answered all the questions and was polite, even though I felt like cussing the idiots they sent that had no idea what they were
talking about or listening to.
God I feel trouble coming on. Sorry to bother everyone with my troubles, but just a warning to all to be careful.
[Edited on 2-12-2016 by alive&kickin]violet sin - 1-12-2016 at 20:15
Well that sounds less than fun, sorry to hear it. I'd like to think one could explain things as common and obvious. But when people automatically
think your some scumbag lieing through your teeth to save your own worthless hide, they are only listening to your words to find inconsistencies and
signs of an easily unraveled story. They arent actually giving any consideration to your logic. Some inquisitors aren't like that, and are
reasonable.
I ability to X doesn't mean intention to X, but being exhonerated of intention to X, when you clearly have all the fixins to X = you robbed them.
Unless they are the reasonable variety of enforcement, and they just look at you like some missguided loony. Lets face it, some people, lots of
people, don't understand our hobby. It doesnt register as an acceptable way to spend time or resources. It is almost way more acceptable if you are
just a youtube coppycat, that could possibly be steered away from this phase. Alien for some one to actually intend to continue on.
Personally i find it soooo very boring to hear about half the crap other people do with their spare time. I like learning more, its actually somewhat
comforting to know you at least understand the basic principles of things going on around you instead of being in the dark about it all.
Hopefully they actually bring some one knowledgable next time, or that the one that came twice is just playing dull. I could see how it might inspire
hope if you know the guy was aware of the validity of your statements. It could be in their favor to keep you on edge wondering if your speaking to
deff ears.
Regardless, good luck. I'd say don't sweat it, no reason to wreck your day when some one else intends to.JJay - 18-12-2016 at 20:35
I just found out this morning that my next-door neighbor was arrested last night for "having a lab." I really had no idea that he had a lab, and I
never even heard what kind of lab it was... seems so unfair.Bert - 19-12-2016 at 01:33
If you are in USA, you might want to watch this if you have not yet.
I regret that this is what our country has come to, but this lawyer knows what he is talking about. JJay - 19-12-2016 at 02:59
Yep. In the U.S., there's really no obligation to talk to the cops without an attorney present, and there's no reason to consent to a warrantless
search.
I wouldn't know anything about my neighbor's situation if I hadn't overheard a couple members of his property management discussing it.XeonTheMGPony - 19-12-2016 at 09:08
Well in the states and even here in Canada the term lab = meth, sad and pathetic, we need to start correcting them to a cooking kit, or meth bakery
some thing more accurate, but they call it a lab cause you know, scary chemicals and all, yet they will be popping a half dozen pills and guzzling
down their artificially flavored drinks.
