Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Reductive amination of L-PAC

MEXCHEM2006 - 11-12-2006 at 10:02

I have 50 ml of L-Phenylacetylcarbinol and i want to make L-Ephedrine from it , im going to try LabTops reductive amination with NaBH4 but using a 0.4mole of methylamine /1 mole of L-PAC ratio , because i read that if you use a normal 3/1 ratio you will end up with racemic ephedrine , maybe someone with practical experience in these reaction can help me establish the best conditions to take these project to a happy ending.

Organikum - 11-12-2006 at 14:00

If you add the methylamine slowly in portions before reduction you can use a 1/1 ratio for l-PAC forms a quite stable imine.

PS: May I ask how you produced l-PAC pure enough for a NaBH4 reduction avoiding racemisation in the process?

I acually dont understand all this. The charm of the biosynthesis route to ephedrines is that the RAW extract of the fermentation can be used in an Al/Hg reduction with decent yields, avoiding all workup which so easily results in racemisation.

[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Organikum]

Hilski - 11-12-2006 at 15:32

Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
If you add the methylamine slowly in portions before reduction you can use a 1/1 ratio for l-PAC forms a quite stable imine.

PS: May I ask how you produced l-PAC pure enough for a NaBH4 reduction avoiding racemisation in the process?

I acually dont understand all this. The charm of the biosynthesis route to ephedrines is that the RAW extract of the fermentation can be used in an Al/Hg reduction with decent yields, avoiding all workup which so easily results in racemisation.

[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Organikum]

If the desired product is norephedrine as opposed to ephedrine, could one treat the raw fermentation extract in the same manner, with the exception that hydroxylamine is used instead of methylamine?
Or is pure L-PAC required to produce norephedrine?



[Edited on 11-12-2006 by Hilski]

Organikum - 11-12-2006 at 16:50

Yes. Thats also covered in several patents IIRC.

roamingnome - 12-12-2006 at 12:17

Organikum:

Ive seen you mentioned before that a pressurized al/hg works well for animation. ive used unpressurized version with nitromethane to success with another substrate.

html by rhodium, which is always inspiring, was reporting 30% yield to ppaHCl with raney nickel in benzene.

im leaning toward al/hg though.... of course useing microwaves to form the imine is intriging, my point is without spoon feeding here or pointless rehash of al/hg banter...

what do you suggest.

ammonia in alcohol mixed with a bubbleing amalgam, then add l-pac and seal it all it a safe pressure vessel, i.e. not a champage bottle!!!

4 - 12-12-2006 at 12:28

MEXCHEM2006, how did you get l-pac? did you go the " yeast culture+benzaldehyde " way?

Organikum - 12-12-2006 at 19:37

Quote:
Originally posted by roamingnome
Organikum:

Ive seen you mentioned before that a pressurized al/hg works well for animation. ive used unpressurized version with nitromethane to success with another substrate.

html by rhodium, which is always inspiring, was reporting 30% yield to ppaHCl with raney nickel in benzene.

im leaning toward al/hg though.... of course useing microwaves to form the imine is intriging, my point is without spoon feeding here or pointless rehash of al/hg banter...

what do you suggest.

ammonia in alcohol mixed with a bubbleing amalgam, then add l-pac and seal it all it a safe pressure vessel, i.e. not a champage bottle!!!

You are a bit confused arn´t you?

roger2003 - 12-12-2006 at 21:57

Reductive amination of L-Pac:

DE Pat 587,586
DE Pat 548,459
DE Pat 588,880
DE Pat 599,433
US Pat 1,956,950
US Pat 1,951,302

Reference Information

solo - 12-12-2006 at 22:28

SYNTHESIS OF 2-AMINO-1-PHENYL-1-PROPANOL AND ITS METHYLATED DERIVATIVES'
FRED W. HOOVER* AND HENRY B. HASS
Journal of organic chemistry yr:1947 vol:12 iss:4 pg:506



Summary
The synthesis of 2-amino-l-phenyl-l-propanol and of Z-methylamino-l-phenyl- 1-propanol has been effected in several ways, all utilizing economical inter- mediates as initial materials. The mixture of diastereoisomers can be obtained in good yield but the methods for separating the isomers are not yet entirely satisfactory .

Attachment: SYNTHESIS OF 2-AMINO-1-PHENYL-1-PROPANOL AND ITS METHYLATED DERIVATIVES' .pdf (320kB)
This file has been downloaded 5888 times


MEXCHEM2006 - 13-12-2006 at 06:36

A friend of mine that works in the pharmaceutical industry gave it to me (99% pure L-PAC), maybe i can have a little more in a few days , thank you all for your help , this weekend ill try to make the reductive amination.

turd - 13-12-2006 at 10:44

Quote:
[...] but using a 0.4mole of methylamine /1 mole of L-PAC ratio , because i read that if you use a normal 3/1 ratio you will end up with racemic ephedrine [...]

That's curious because according to my knowledge (I'm not an organic chemist though) your amination will give two diastereomers. Therefore you will obtain a mixture of two different compounds which will not be 50:50, because one of the two will be favoured (for kinetic or thermodynamic reasons).

But I don't see how you will get a very high selectivity given that -OH and -H are not *that* different. And why the selectivity is supposed to be dependent on the methylamine/ketone-ratio. The reduction goes via the imine and once it is reduced, the orientation cannot change. Where does the amount of methylamine come into play?

MEXCHEM2006 - 13-12-2006 at 11:49

The information came from the book : Secrets Of Methamphetamine Manufacture

.....One would think that the reductive alkylation of that phenylacetone derivative would yield d,l-ephedrine, and then that reduction of that d,l-ephedrine would then give d,l-meth. That same racemic meth that results from reductive alkylation of phenylacetone. (Your Uncle prefers the buzz produced by the racemate over the harsher, more nerve jangling buzz produced by d-meth.) Apparently, this isn't the case. The references for this process claim that solely l-ephedrine is produced, and then reduction of this l-ephedrine, which is identical to natural ephedrine, yields that potent but harsh d-meth.
The phenylpropanol-1-one-2 can be reductively alkylated to give l-ephedrine. Any one of several methods can be used, just as in the case of reductively alkylating phenylacetone to meth. Method number one has to be catalytic hydrogenation using platinum catalyst.
In the example taken from US Patent 1,956,950, the chemists place 300 ml of the distilled phenyl-propanol-1-one-2 in the hydrogenation bomb along with one gram of platinum catalyst, and 85 grams of 33% methylamine solution. They state that it's advantageous to add some ether to the hydrogenation solution. How much is some, they don't say. They then hydrogenate the solution in the usual manner, with up to 3 atmospheres of hydrogen pressure, and magnetic stirring of the contents of the hydrogenation bomb.
When absorption of hydrogen stops in two or three hours, the platinum catalyst is filtered out. Then the ethery hydrogenation mixture is shaken with a volume or two of 10% HCl solution to pull the ephedrine out of the ether and into the acid water, forming the HCl salt of ephedrine. The ether layer is separated off with a sep funnel, then the dilute acid is boiled away. The residue is diluted with a little alcohol, and then a lot more ether. Passing dry HCl through this mixture then gives crystals of pure ephedrine hydrochloride. Their yield was around 110 grams.
My commentary on this hydrogenation? That yield is awfully low. Using phenylacetone as a guide, one should be expecting a yield around 300 grams of ephedrine. What's up? Check out the amount of methylamine used. There are about two moles of the phenylacetone derivative, but they don't even use one mole of methylamine. It should be the other way around, an excess of methylamine. Perhaps this is how they only get l-ephedrine from the phenylacetone derivative. In any case, I'd much rather have 300 grams of racephedrine than 110 grams of 1-ephedrine. My thoughts are that one would be better served just going to Chapter Eleven, and just plug in this phenylacetone derivative for the regular phenylacetone. That means two or three moles of methylamine for each mole of phenylacetone, alcohol as solvent, and a bit more platinum catalyst in the mixture.
In the patent, they give another reductive alkylation example. They use amalgamated aluminum as the reducer, just like in Method Three in Chapter Twelve. They take 120 grams of the undistilled fermentation product containing the 1-phenylpropanol-1-one-2, and drip it over the course of two hours into a solution of 10 grams of methylamine in 500 ml of ether in the presence of 20 grams of activated aluminum amalgam. Simultaneously, they drip into the mixture 20 to 30 ml of water. Stirring of the mixture is required.
The vigorous reaction that sets in is moderated by periodic cooling. When the reaction is complete after a few hours, they filter the mixture to remove the aluminum. Then they shake the ether solution with 10% HCl solution to draw the ephedrine into the water. The ether layer is separated then the dilute acid boiled off. The residue is thinned with a little alcohol, then dissolved in a lot more ether. Bubbling with dry HCl gives 25 to 45 grams of 1-ephedrine hydrochloride crystals.
My commentary on this procedure is identical to the last one. So little methylamine used! I haven't tried this, but I would be surprised to say the least if more methylamine didn't greatly increase the yield of product. I would also think that any one of the activated aluminum procedures given in Chapter Twelve could be used, just by plugging in this phenylacetone derivative for the regular phenylacetone. Also the use of ether is to be avoided when possible.

turd - 13-12-2006 at 14:29

Quote:
Perhaps this is how they only get l-ephedrine from the phenylacetone derivative.
(emphasis added)

Judging style and wording, I think you are better off ignoring anything in this book which is not confirmed by more reliable sources.

roamingnome - 13-12-2006 at 15:23

i wish that I was more confused then I actually am, it would make things simpler, I could save my pennies for the new Xbox game, and 1080 kickflip just like Tony Hawk, .
No one wants to know that I unfortunately chose to dispose of 500 mls lab-grade nitromethane during a necessitated move during a summer heat wave. :( Safety first you know. Even is I had gallons of it and specialty fine chemicals in my stocking, I am searching for reaction schemes that don’t use such. Certain schemes rise to the top

I hope this thread produces such schemes. For example using microwaves to form the imine seems advantageous in that unreacted l-pac can be washed out and recycled( the paper im referring to posted by solo, didn’t discuss racemization issues though) Then the imine can be processed. Yes NaBH is certainly one method. I like metallic elemental catalysts like lindlar’s, adam’s, raney nickel and al/hg though. Their boss. Everyone wants a one pot reaction, but there is more then one stair in a stair case.

Scalability, cleaness in reaction and workup, cost, continuous or batch processes, are the point of confusion in choosing a path. Recycling of reagents etc etc…. anyone can crack open alrich fisher bottles and cook…. Dolphins are even welding under water oil rigs these days….

I appreciate the US patent numbers, pdf’s, web links, really its neato. But it’s up to the interested parties to masticate, discuss, and otherwise bring life to the subject.

roamingnome - 13-12-2006 at 16:20

Analytical Sciences
Vol. 20 (2004) , No. 8 p.1179

http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/analsci/20/8/1179/_pdf


my spiney senses are tingeling....

simple microwaves to form an imine..then the electrochemical reduction, i had a feeling that every wave length must be exploited...

any more relavent info on electrochemical reduction would be nice, this is just a grab and run link....

jon - 13-12-2006 at 23:53

I was thinking would a luekardt reaction work probably no huh?
what about zinc and ammonium formate?

[Edited on 14-12-2006 by jon]

Closer....

roamingnome - 14-12-2006 at 14:48

REDUCTION POTENTIALS OF CONJUGATED ALIPHATIC KETONES, OXIMES,. AND IMINES: CORRELATION WITH STRUCTURE AND BIOACTIVITY.

Journal of the Mexican Chemical Society..

redalyc.uaemex.mx/redalyc/pdf/475/47546403.pdf


i rather like south amercian chemistry papers... brazilian papers always seem on the mark, after all they are making ethanol for their whole country.

Contrast this to amercian journals which seem to focus on greater detection limits for drug testing or the like.


The luekardt reaction:
I havent done it, but its an option, and probably will work fine. Ive heard it can get messy for some reason.

Reference Information

solo - 14-12-2006 at 15:45

REDUCTION POTENTIALS OF CONJUGATED ALIPHATIC KETONES, OXIMES,. AND IMINES: CORRELATION WITH STRUCTURE AND BIOACTIVITY
Noah N. Niufar/ffiona L. Haycock/ Jodi L. Wesemann/ Jason A. MacStay/ vicctor L. Heaseley/ Peter Kovacic
Journal of the Mexican chemical society vol. 46, Nu. 004, pp. 307-312, 2002


Abstract
To determine which structural features may favor electron transfer in biological systems, cyclic voltammetric studies were carried out on conjugated aliphatic ketone, oxime, and imine species at pH levels 2 through 7 in most cases. The nature of the conjugated substituents strongly influenced the reduction potentials. The dione samples were most easily reduced, followed by the diimine and then the mono-and di-oxime analogs. The reduction potentials for all compounds were pH-dependent, with the most favorable potentials occurring at the lower pHvalues. The possible roles of protonation hydrogen bonding , the captodative effect , and other aspects were consdered.
The favorable reduction potentials of the compounds exhibiting bioactivity suggest that in vivo electron transfer and oxidative stress may be involved in various types of bilological process.

Key words cyclic voltmmetry, diones, diimenes, dioximes, bioactive, electron transfer, oxidative stress.

Attachment: REDUCTION POTENTIALS OF CONJUGATED ALIPHATIC KETONES, OXIMES,. AND IMINES-CORRELATION WITH STRUCTURE AND BIOACTIVITY. .p (205kB)
This file has been downloaded 2400 times


MEXCHEM2006 - 15-12-2006 at 11:41

I'd appreciate if somebody could find the following reference for this project:

ON THE ANALYSIS OF PHENYLACETYLCARBINOL, AN INTERMEDIATE PRODUCT IN EPHEDRINE SYNTHESIS
Pharmazie. 1965 Feb;20:92-5

On the by-products of ephedrine synthesis
Pharmazie. 1968;23(8):437-43

Isolation, analysis, and synthesis of ephedrine and its derivatives
http://www.springerlink.com/content/q74q7673687m6138/

High-throughput assay of (R)-phenylacetylcarbinol synthesized by pyruvate decarboxylase
http://www.springerlink.com/content/566kpab90y910fk2/

solo - 15-12-2006 at 16:48

High-throughput assay of (R )-phenylacetylcarbinol synthesized
by pyruvate decarboxylase

Michael Breuer · Martina Pohl · Bernhard Hauer · Bettina Lingen
Anal Bioanal Chem (2002) 374 :1069–1073



Abstract
A novel assay has been developed for the detection of (R)-phenylacetylcarbinol, (R)-PAC, a chiral intermediate
in the industrial synthesis of ephedrine. It is the product of a biotransformation of benzaldehyde catalysed by the enzyme pyruvate decarboxylase. The assay, using 2,3,5-triphenyltetrazolium chloride, enables highthroughput photometric analysis of the activity of the enzyme
thus avoiding time-consuming chromatographic procedures.

Attachment: High-throughput assay of (R )-phenylacetylcarbinol synthesized by pyruvate decarboxylase.pdf (418kB)
This file has been downloaded 2629 times


Hilski - 15-12-2006 at 17:46

Assume one were to adapt procedure #1 from HERE. The MeNH2 would have to be replaced with an equimolar amount of NH2OH or NH3, and of course the P2P would be replaced with PAC.
This is a pretty straightforward procedure, but when one is dealing with the raw fermentation extract (a liter or more of extraction solvent) what changes would need to be made to the process?

solo - 15-12-2006 at 18:42

Biotransformation of benzaldehyde to L-phenylacetylcarbinol (L-PAC) by and conversion to ephedrine by microwave radiation
Vilas B Shukla,1 Virendra R Madyar,2 Bhushan M Khadilkar2 and
Pushpa R Kulkarni

Journal of Chemical Technology & Biotechnology 77, 137, 2002


Abstract:
In a 5 dm3 stirred tank reactor, bioconversion of 30 g benzaldehyde by cells of Torulaspora delbrueckii yielded 22.9 g of pure L-phenylacetylcarbinol (L-PAC). Facile functional group transformation of 4.5 g of L-PAC to 2-(methylimino)-1-phenyl-1-propanol by exposure to microwave irradiation for 9 min resulted in 2.48 g of product. Conversion of 4.8 g of 2-(methylimino)-1-phenyl-1-propanol to 3.11 g of ephedrine was achieved by exposure to microwaves in a reaction time of 10 min. The identity of all the products was confirmed by 1H NMR and FT-IR analysis

Attachment: 20061026122321_Biotransformation.pdf (94kB)
This file has been downloaded 3738 times


solo - 15-12-2006 at 19:54

ISOLATION, ANALYSIS, AND SYNTHESIS OF EPHEDRINE AND ITS DERIVATIVES
A. N. Gazaliev, M. Zh. Zhurinov, S. D. Fazylov, and S. N. Balitskii
Chemistry of Natural Compounds Volume 25, Number 3, pp.261,1989


Abstract
A review is given of methods for the isolation, quantitative determination,
and modification of the ephedrine alkaloids, and advances in this field
of natural compound chemistry are discussed.

Attachment: ISOLATION, ANALYSIS, AND SYNTHESIS OF EPHEDRINE AND ITS DERIVATIVES.pdf (911kB)
This file has been downloaded 4983 times


jon - 15-12-2006 at 23:21

So I can use sodium pyruvate intstead of acetaldehyde in the fermentation step?

has anyone tried this?
I know acetaldehyde can autolyze the yeast this would be preferable the moiety would be made in situ.

[Edited on 16-12-2006 by jon]

MEXCHEM2006 - 16-12-2006 at 05:39

Thank you Solo

Acetaldehyde only works for Zymomonas mobilis

[Edited on 16-12-2006 by MEXCHEM2006]

Acetone can be used as a hydrogen acceptor in liu of acetaldehyde

Hilski - 16-12-2006 at 08:32

Acetone can be used as a hydrogen acceptor in lieu of acetaldehyde. Orgnikum spoke of this in another thread.

"Whey and beer wort also stimulated L-PAC synthesis, giving
maximum yield upto 0.78 g L-PAC/100 ml. Similarly
the the yield of L-PAC was increased when acetone was
added to the culture medium as a competitive hydrogen
acceptor, probably making more benzaldehyde available
for L-PAC formation (Yashio 1952). Ose et al. (1960)
reported that addition of acetaldehyde increased the
yield of L-PAC by acting as hydrogen acceptor and
inhibiting hydrogenation of benzaldehyde to benzyl
alcohol and diverting more benzaldehyde towards
L-PAC formation using pressed beer."

That excerpt is from this paper. I can't remember where I got this pdf from, but it is a good read.


[Edited on 16-12-2006 by Hilski]

Attachment: LPAC biosynthesis and industrial applications.pdf (136kB)
This file has been downloaded 4580 times


Organikum - 20-12-2006 at 13:51

Acetone can be used but it requirers the use of much more water as solvent to prevent the toxic effects of acetone and IPA onto the yeast. About twice as much. And this makes the whole thing a bit unfavorable.

/ORG

substitute for ammonium formate the hydrogen donor

roamingnome - 22-12-2006 at 13:30

J. Org. Chem., 64 (16), 5746 -5753, 1999
Web Release Date: July 20, 1999
Copyright © 1999 American Chemical Society

Microwave-Assisted Rapid and Simplified Hydrogenation
(imine reduction)

Bimal K. Banik, Khaled J. Barakat, Dilip R. Wagle, Maghar S. Manhas, and Ajay K. Bose*

Abstract:

Catalytic transfer hydrogenation has been conducted under microwave irradiation in open vessels using high-boiling solvents such as ethylene glycol (bp 198 C) as the microwave energy transfer agent. Reduction of double bonds and hydrogenolysis of several functional groups were carried out safely and rapidly (3-5 min) at about 110-130 C with 10% Pd/C as an efficient catalyst and ammonium formate as the hydrogen donor. Diverse types of -lactam synthons were prepared by the reduction of ring substituents containing alkene and alkylidene groups or conjugated unsaturated esters. Cleavage of the -lactam ring by hydrogenolysis of the N-C4 bond of 4-aryl-2-azetidinones was a facile reaction with 10% Pd/C as the catalyst; but no ring scission occurred when Raney nickel catalyst was employed. Dehalogenation of aromatic compounds was also successful with ammonium formate and Pd/C catalyst. Hydrogenolysis of phenylhydrazone of methyl benzoylformate gave the methyl ester of phenylglycine in excellent yield. The techniques described here for microwave assisted hydrogenation are safe, rapid, and efficient and are suitable for research investigation as well as for undergraduate and high school laboratory exercises.


chasing reference links can go on forever, but a microwave assisted review article via tetrahedron letters produced this interst.

Not that ammonium formate is hard to come by or procure
but what other possible hydrogen donors are possible to research? thanks

roamingnome - 22-12-2006 at 13:32

sorry to double post, but saving the OH group would be nice too...

I ask too much... i know...

Reference Information

solo - 22-12-2006 at 14:09

Microwave-Assisted Rapid and Simplified Hydrogenation
(imine reduction)
Bimal K. Banik, Khaled J. Barakat, Dilip R. Wagle, Maghar S. Manhas, and Ajay K. Bose
J. Org. Chem., 64 (16), 5746 -5753, 1999



Abstract:
Catalytic transfer hydrogenation has been conducted under microwave irradiation in open vessels using high-boiling solvents such as ethylene glycol (bp 198 C) as the microwave energy transfer agent. Reduction of double bonds and hydrogenolysis of several functional groups were carried out safely and rapidly (3-5 min) at about 110-130 C with 10% Pd/C as an efficient catalyst and ammonium formate as the hydrogen donor. Diverse types of -lactam synthons were prepared by the reduction of ring substituents containing alkene and alkylidene groups or conjugated unsaturated esters. Cleavage of the -lactam ring by hydrogenolysis of the N-C4 bond of 4-aryl-2-azetidinones was a facile reaction with 10% Pd/C as the catalyst; but no ring scission occurred when Raney nickel catalyst was employed. Dehalogenation of aromatic compounds was also successful with ammonium formate and Pd/C catalyst. Hydrogenolysis of phenylhydrazone of methyl benzoylformate gave the methyl ester of phenylglycine in excellent yield. The techniques described here for microwave assisted hydrogenation are safe, rapid, and efficient and are suitable for research investigation as well as for undergraduate and high school laboratory exercises.



[Edited on 22-12-2006 by solo]

Attachment: Microwave-Assisted Rapid and Simplified Hydrogenation.pdf (201kB)
This file has been downloaded 1885 times


Hilski - 22-12-2006 at 21:37

Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
Acetone can be used but it requirers the use of much more water as solvent to prevent the toxic effects of acetone and IPA onto the yeast. About twice as much. And this makes the whole thing a bit unfavorable.

/ORG

So, in your opinion, is it worth it to even try to add an additional hydrogen acceptor?

Al/Hg

Counter_Culture - 28-12-2006 at 03:44

Any comments for the following up-coming fictional event?

If not will go ahead and report results.

An Osmium/BrightStar style Al/Hg reductive amination of
l-pac where a 1.5 molar excess of methylamine is used.

Mixed is MeAm.Hcl (approx. 1mol) in dH2O.

Mixed is equimolar amount to MeAm.Hcl of NaOH in dH2O, cooled.

Mixed is MeOH, Al foil, HgCl2 in RBF.

Slowly poured is NaOH solution into MeAm solution, then added to RBF.

All at once is added crude l-pac (approx. 0.67mol).

Reflux, stirring (ice bath??) and let settle.

One wishes to avoid racemizing l-pac (high temp.) prior to imine formation/reduction.

Considering a sub zero deg. ice bath to control temp. Usure of effects on imine formation and reduction.

roamingnome - 28-12-2006 at 09:48

i personally dont mind discussing mercury amalgam issues, but i can see how it can get old for the elders in a jiffy....

by all means post your results. after all i think results is what this forum is all about unlike a post like the one im typeing at the moment.... in my limited use.. i had better luck with methanol as the working fluid of the reaction...

but dude.... im encouraging the atainment and expirmentation of newer methods ......better methods

2.45 gigahertz dude 2.45 gigahertz



in other news: jon did you add a comment about zinc reduction? yes after reading a paper on the reduction of imine with 5 % NaOH in water with zinc im thinking at the moment it is the most economical OTC way possible

another paper hinted at useing 95% ethanol which i hope will work and not change the reaction pathway becuase the indian group was useing ethanol as the homogenous solvent for imine formation
in the first place......

Reference Information

solo - 28-12-2006 at 10:19

Organic Reaction in Water. Part 1. A Convenient Method for Reduction of lmines Using Zinc Powder
Takehito Tsuklnoki*, Yoshiharu Mitoma, Satoko Nagashima, Takatoshi Kawajf, Iwao Hashlmoto* and Masashi Tashiro Tohwa
Tetrahedron Letters 39 (1998) 8873-8876

Abstract:
Reduction of imines was performed with zinc powder in 5% aqNaOH solution without any organic solvents undea" mild conditions, and the eor~sponding amines were obtained in good yields null

Attachment: Organic Reaction in Water. Part 1. A Convenient Method for Reduction of lmines Using Zinc Powder .pdf (206kB)
This file has been downloaded 3371 times


roamingnome - 28-12-2006 at 11:43

ahhhhh the most coveted.... tetrahedron letters....

thank you is not enough.....

Counter_Culture - 29-12-2006 at 01:46

Sounds promising.

5g zinc for 5 mmol substrate.

1 kg of zinc for 1 mol l-pac.

How to form stable imine in a suitable solution for zinc reduction? nh3 in alc. ?

Hilski - 29-12-2006 at 08:48

Quote:
How to form stable imine in a suitable solution for zinc reduction? nh3 in alc. ?


If I understood the paper correctly, the NH2OH addition product (oxime) can also be used successfully in this reaction, with ~63% yields.

That is, if norephedrine is the desired end result.

[Edited on 29-12-2006 by Hilski]

roamingnome - 30-12-2006 at 14:49

From the electro reductive mechanisms ive have been able to embrace the oxime is first reduced to the imine and further along...

come to realize that amalgams are sorta like hot wired circuits, either way you need metals for redox. The lure of electrodes is nice, but a slurry of Zinc will suffice...;)

brewette - 30-12-2006 at 19:33

Mexchem2006,
Has a microwave process with clay been considered for hydroamination of l-pac?
I notice a paper from Mumbai Uni outlining a wet microwave process with 50% conversion for each of the hydrogenation and amination reactions and recovery of the unreacted l-pac. Easier than pressure hydrogenation.
Brewee

jon - 31-12-2006 at 23:51

what a find, you know the typical o-chem book would have you believe that slightly acidic conditions are needed for amino carbinols to eliminate H2O to form the imine (this is the species reduced hypothetically). but this is not the species that undergoes reduction in the example you give using zinc. I also see this in another paper where aminocarbinols are the intermediate in transition.
not everything goes like they say in textbookland.
The zinc reduction I was refering too is a CTH type reduction where zinc acts more like a catalyst and formates are the proton donors.

Organikum - 1-1-2007 at 23:13

Quote:
Originally posted by Counter_Culture
Sounds promising.

5g zinc for 5 mmol substrate.

1 kg of zinc for 1 mol l-pac.

How to form stable imine in a suitable solution for zinc reduction? nh3 in alc. ?
Anybody here got near reality lately? One kilo zinc powder for one mole substrate yielding a product which cannot by normal means be distilled by steam? And this goes unchallenged? You are kidding, thats just ridiculous if not pathetic. Did anybody even think of workup?

If I got my hands on some pure l-PAC (small question: how is this stabilised? If not then you´ll have PAC but no l-PAC) I´ll get my hands on some suitable Pt catalyst and run this clean. But for all I can see this are just theoretical musings here, not touched by the dirty hands of actually doing something. Hilsky is an exception - maybe.

And another question: Does anybody know this wanking moderator of drugs-forum.com (where I am banned) who pulled up the genious stunt to contact me by mail posing as an iranian female chemist to extort some information on this process from me? Hey! Go and stuff yourself or learn iranian before trying something like this. Some chemistry wouldnt hurt either, questions like "I don´t understand the role of pyruvate in the reaction" from a chemist (with a "Dr." !) are not so very bright.

funny things happen....

Organikum - 1-1-2007 at 23:21

Quote:
Originally posted by Hilski
Quote:
Originally posted by Organikum
Acetone can be used but it requirers the use of much more water as solvent to prevent the toxic effects of acetone and IPA onto the yeast. About twice as much. And this makes the whole thing a bit unfavorable.

/ORG

So, in your opinion, is it worth it to even try to add an additional hydrogen acceptor?
Yes. Pyruvate.

jon - 2-1-2007 at 10:32

so organikum you think the ZnII(OH) would form a gelatinous mess making extraction next to impossible?
what about the other zinc/acid reductions where ZnII(Cl) is converted to ZnII(OH) on basififcation? this is the same scenario. Acid base extraction was touted to work in this case.
And I had a question on thinking of the scheme a little more I think you mentioned that L-PAC is unstable to bases, unstabe as in aldol condesations with itself or just unstable stereochemically? also in the other thread they say nor-ephedrine+heat+base=tarry mess. (heat is like 100 centigrate)

I shout conspiracy

roamingnome - 2-1-2007 at 11:23

I really need to stand up in defense for
A) Tetrahedron Letters, and all the scientists who wrote the article
B) 2 Hydrogenolysis articles, and the scientists that wrote the articles.
C) Scientific musing


Lets go back to Dec 26, 2000 when Rhodium posted literature regarding Hydrogenolysis in IPA, well you where there Org and that’s all well and good and sentimental, but then on 30-4-2006 CherrieBaby reposted it in a lack luster yet new thread on this forum. In 103 minutes you tell us not to waste our time and money on it. Are you suggesting that all the professional scientists who authored a professional article are bunk and dumb?

Are you furthermore suggesting the authors of the tetrahedron article or also as equally dumb! Well I cant afford your fancy palladium “clean” catalysts. I think it looks like a pretty clean approach considering that at that point your extracting ppaHCl out of freaking water with maybye some zinc ions in it.

Finally people play video games where we shoot the bad guy and get swords and battle axes and potions to slay mythic creatures in a fantasy world. The reason people do this is because killing people for real is immoral! And mythic creatures dont freaking exist!

Im sorry I don’t have time/ money/ equipment to perform experiments 24-7. I personally like this forum and im soooo sorry if im this or that or not enough of something else.

Talking about science, in an edifying way, is just as good as actually doing it! That’s why it’s a forum of text …… so when I actually go to do an experiment Im giving it that best possible approach. It fills that gaps when im not able to perform reactions.

Organikum - 3-1-2007 at 03:59

I am telling from experience that a lot of scientific articles are plain bullshit or at least misleading. Thats actually nothing new. Patents are even worse.

It is quite obvious that a kilo zinc powder per mole substrate will give a petty mess.

Also you are not referencing it, I suppose that the hydrogenolysis article posted by Rhodium you refer to is the one where Ephedrine was reduced by some fancy nickel catalyst in IPA and the authors claimed IPA being the hydrogen donor. Without finding any acetone in the post reaction mixture, wonders over wonders.
This article was bullshit, it was nothing more then an advertisement for a new catalyst. Ipa was not the hydrogen donor - the fucking catalyst was so preloaded with hydrogen that there was just no need for any hydrogen donor.

You are wisecrack without a clue.


Quote:

Talking about science, in an edifying way, is just as good as actually doing it!
I disagree. I am also convinced that actually having sex is better then watching porn.

/ORG

[Edited on 3-1-2007 by Organikum]

roamingnome - 3-1-2007 at 08:20

I'm sure some mistake was made in posting what was originally here, because it was so offtopic and inflammatory that "moderators, please ban me now" would have retained the spirit of the post while improving brevity greatly. I have edited this message to avoid confusion on the previous point.

If there was no mistake, please repost what was here before, or something like it, and the desired ban will soon be delivered.

[Edited on 1-4-2007 by Polverone]

Ephoton - 8-1-2007 at 14:50

This is in the wrong thread sorry but I did not want to start a new thread just to ask this question which relates to l-pac. how does one convert l-pac or pac into P2P.
will the pinacol rearrangement do the trick as it does for diols or do you have to reduce
the carbonyl to an alcohol first. thanx for any who answer and sorry to push in like this.

roamingnome - 9-1-2007 at 12:04

I dont want to be banned... i will pace in circles 12 times and 4 deep breaths before getting jumpy

I will "soon" run confirmitory analysis on said methodologys in libo, to insure freshness. and no ecoli or trans fats.

why oh why would you ever want P2P from pac. Unless you have a secrete use for it thats like taking 2 steps foward and 3 steps back. i didnt mean to ryme there by the way...

lets just say for all the proper reasons a research lab needed the amphetamine or methylated analog. If you read the Hydrogenolysis articles one deals with just that!

Assuming that they are valid methods then snipping off an OH group seems pretty much taken care off. That is relfuxing in IPA with raney nickel, but read those articles and i want book report on your feelings and summer vaction by monday.

roamingnome - 9-1-2007 at 13:36

http://www.arkat-usa.org/home.aspx?VIEW=MANUSCRIPT&MSID=...

http://journals.iucr.org/a/issues/2005/a1/00/a33149/a33149.p...

As the day approaches, maybye ya’ll already figured this out, and have been doing it since 1983 who knows…

But ammonium acetate shall/can be used to form said imine in microwave assited (MA) reaction with l-pac

Ephoton - 9-1-2007 at 17:32

im a chromic fan :) no raney here and wial I can get Pt im not aiming for that. I would like a otc from pepper and this is the best I can find for the novice. so one would expect that you would have to do an amalgum first then do the pinacol. cool.
oh by the way your a microwave nut i love it.

[Edited on 10-1-2007 by Ephoton]

jon - 9-1-2007 at 18:02

here was the reference I was talking about earlier it uses ammonium formate in a CTH with zinc.
Journal of chemical research, synopses, 2003, 6, 332-334 "zinc/ammonium formate a new facile system for the rapid and selective reduction of oximes to amines (K. Abiraj; D. Channe Gowda)

roamingnome - 9-1-2007 at 18:35

i can respect pepper

substituted PDC biotransformations are logically the next inquiry

yes i currently champion microwaves. I desire to know the most direct way between two points, but in the end youll find me lost on the scenic route.....

reducing the ketone group to the desired R group might be the right move... then work on the OH group in any mannor you fancy... i bet you got it figured out...

fly ash.....

roamingnome - 10-3-2007 at 11:50

no, you dont need to run out and buy fly paper as i first thought....


http://www.arkat-usa.org/home.aspx?VIEW=MANUSCRIPT&MSID=...

Table 4. Microwave assisted formation of Schiff bases catalyzed by Activated Fly ash

who is brave enough to toss the lpac into the crater of fly ash..... ... the gods demand a sacrafice......rumble rumble....
possible mudslide....and rain...

jon - 10-3-2007 at 23:14

I was thinking tht zinc/ammonium formate process would be perfect for something like this it's procedure is on rhodium's mirror
here:
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/oxime2amine....

and here's one too
JOC 57, 6324 (1992)

At room temperature with stirring, Zinc dust (74 mg) was added to a solution of
the oxime (44mg, 0.185 mmol) in 2 ml glacial acetic acid. Stirring was continued
for another 15 minutes. The reaction mixture was then filtered through a sintered
glass funnel with suction. The filtrate was concentrated under vacuum to afford
the amine as an oil (37mg, 0.166 mmol, 90% yield).

all very doable

[Edited on 11-3-2007 by jon]

[Edited on 11-3-2007 by jon]

hamdan - 16-3-2007 at 07:52

please i want preparation diisopropyl amine without pressure

solo - 1-2-2008 at 07:49

Recently in a reductive amination experiment I tried using the methylamine HCL which was put in solution with water and methanol.........the catalytic reduction of the material didn't happened , hence upon adding some concentrated NaOH slowly and covering the vessel the amine gas was produced and was consumed in the water alcohol L-PAC solution making the solution a grenish yellow with the L-Pac sitting in the bottom.......the hydrogenation did occurred but slower than it I had used plain methanol with my methylamine dissolved in it.....i was trying to prove that reductive methylation of L-PAC does occur under catalytic hydrogenation using Pd/C 10% and of course with molar ratios of Methylamine 2:1 with L-PAC.

.............picture of resulting un recrystalized ephedrine.




Ephoton - 12-2-2008 at 03:59

that is very nice solo :) very clean for an un recrystalised product. I still wonder if
one is going for the psuedo unless your absolutly wanting a dextro product would it not be a lot easier to aim for the ketone then do the whole reductive alkylation.
I would love some info on how you did the broth though its hard to tell but that looks like a fair amount :)
oh just a thought fly ash your not thinking burnt winged things are you. thats nearly as good as distilling ants.

[Edited on 12-2-2008 by Ephoton]

reduction lpac

azo - 12-2-2008 at 19:42

hi ephoton

just a thought .. solo is doing a reductive amination of a ketone l/pac
if you are doing a reductive amination of lpac you are always going to get a racemic product
to me if you only want the dextro product you would have to seperate it using tartaric acid when it is reduced to meth
another thing if you are going to reduce the imine formed between lpac and methylamine with pt and h2 i cant see how it would not reduce the hydoxyl group at the same time
as you can reduce ephedrine with catalytic hydogenation

thank you all for my first post ;)
;););):cool:

solo - 12-2-2008 at 20:43

Quote:
Originally posted by azo
if you are going to reduce the imine formed between lpac and methylamine with pt and h2 i cant see how it would not reduce the hydoxyl group at the same time
as you can reduce ephedrine with catalytic hydogenation

:


Maybe by reading the material found with the enclosed link , you will understand why it won't................solo

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/ephedrine.ca...

Ephoton - 12-2-2008 at 21:20

I think its reductive alkylation that makes a racemate product not the reduction of
an opticaly pure imine. I might be wrong on this but I think there would be a difference.
organikum was mentioning something along those lines I belive. though if you have
some docs to show that this is not the case I would love to see them. If not I guess the only way to tell is to form the imine and let stand for a period of time then reduce and
treat with either d or l tartaric acid. so your saying that any kind of reduction of the hydroxyl needs to go via a halide swap.

lpac

azo - 14-2-2008 at 03:12

hear are sum references you would like see

this might help

The synthesis of either amphetamine or methamphetamine from P2P, regardless of the synthetic procedure used, will give a racemic mixture. However, when using ephedrine as the precursor, its chirality will determine the chirality of the methamphetamine formed. Retention of configuration will be observed during the reduction and this has been verified in the conversion of phenylpropanolamine to amphetamine.81 Extensive reports characterizing the enantiomeric composition of illicit amphetamine or methamphetamine have not been reported. Analytical methods are available for characterizing each enantiomer. However, this is not routinely done by the forensic drug chemist since the law currently treats the d and I isomers of both amines as Schedule II drugs unless present in the appropriate drug formulation.

Ephoton - 19-2-2008 at 23:26

hmm thats not a reference but a straight out plagerism that has nothing to do with ketols. note that P2P is a ketone and
by defanition of a ketone it has no chirality so there for leads to a mixture of isomers. now if you have a look at the subject of this thread you will notice an L before the PAC ie levo phenyl acetyl carbonol. notice the ol at the end of this chemicals name.
this means it is an alcohol. now to my knowlage and this is why I asked for some refs and I mean in the regards to ketols not ketones (big difference if you take what I just said to heart),
the two bonds from the oxygen that are attached to the second
carbon make the oxygen cycle around the carbon. now if
it is possible to actualy have such a thing as L-PAC then the
hydroxyl group would have to stabalise this. This is pritty new
terratory for me as im not realy into this kind of stuff I just found
it interesting how one could make the ketol from a ferment in the first place and still manage to keep its chirality.

so lets review the synth of L-PAC from ferment.

one if it is done in the dark and kept reasonably cold and acidic
you will keep the levo chirality. two if this product then has
any kind of energy submited to it, it will racermise.
now the questions I have been proposing and with out some
seriouse refs that deal exactly with ketols that form imine alcohols or oxime alcohols will have to be tested is. does the formation of these secondary double bonded nitrogen primary
alcohol compounds create a racemate and two if not can they
be reduced to an opticaly pure substance.

I kind of take most of what org says at face value to be honest.
I think he would know the difference between products.

the refs we need are from the psuedo ephedrine manufacture
patents. dambed if I can be bothered looking them up on espace but I know org probably did. so as I said I take his
word at face value. I can not see the pham industry doing it
this way if they could use allylbenzene and keep chirality if
this process does not.


no refs just straight logic.

but I think if you wish to find out for sure you either have to do
the tests or find the patents.
this is new territory for the hivers. they never realy worked
this one out it was jacked I think then org.

just to add to what i said so I dont look like my post above was not with out thought. I think that the energy in the reduction might make a racemate of the ketol not the imine alcohol. but on second thoughts ferments are reductive anyway so I am probably wrong and you could do a reductive alkylation and keep chirality. I would say your biggest enemy in creating an opticaly pure substance other than heat and light is the fact that the amine that you are
attaching to the ketal group is basic.

[Edited on 20-2-2008 by Ephoton]

R.Esposito - 28-11-2012 at 05:14

hi... i have industrial bottle with monomethylamine and now i apllying methylamine by pressure... I am not able to calculate the ideal ratio of methylamine, because he can not keep ... I can apply it to ethanol ... tell someone how much I could use for example methylamine in the application of industrial bottle directly into the reactor? I use liquid output bottles ...

solo - 28-11-2012 at 05:59

....try weighing it ...before and after you add the gas methylamine....solo

Organikum - 3-12-2012 at 23:51

a few kilos of crushed ice and some salt should cool your gasbottle nicely below 6°C and the methylamine will be a liquid.

zed - 5-12-2012 at 13:53

Hamdan. Di-phenylisopropyl-methylamines apparently have some use as analgesics. The final structures resembling those of opiates. And, should you use inadequate amounts of methylamine in your reductive aminations, you will surely produce some.

It was with these materials in mind that Henzelman crafted one of his classic synthesis. Apparently, methods other than catalytic hydrogenation, do not work well for producing such materials (according to Shulgin). High pressures however, are not required.

Physiologically Active Secondary Amines. β-(o-Methoxyphenyl)-isopropyl-N-methylamine and Related Compounds.

http://bitnest.ca/Rhodium/pdf/2-meo-methamphetamine.pdf
[Edited on 5-12-2012 by zed]

[Edited on 5-12-2012 by zed]

Maybe Urushibara?

Jesse Pinkman - 6-12-2012 at 13:41

Which is the most appropriate method for the reductive amination of L-PAC in your opinion ?

IMO the Leuckart reaction will not yield the desired (nor)ephedrine, so this makes Pd/C and probably Urushibara nickel attractive but I have seen a mystery around Urushibara - here on Science Madness some say, that Urushibara works, others say that it doesn't work?


Quote:

Ketones and aldehydes can be reduced to their respective alcohols using Urushibara catalysts with hydrogen at atmospheric pressure and room temperature. (this states the attached paper)


Interesting, if I remember correctly the reduction of carbonyl compounds to the corresponding alcohols requires harsher conditions that the hydrogenation of imines to form amines.

Attachment: urushibara_nickel_eros.ru003.pdf (36kB)
This file has been downloaded 1572 times

zed - 6-12-2012 at 14:56

That may be so, Pinkman. As I recall, most ketones resist hydrogenation. NaBH4 performs the reduction readily, but may be a bit pricey to obtain.

Another possibility that is seldom used is Ketone+Isopropyl Alcohol+ plus Al-isopropoxide> distill.......

Acetone distills off; driving the reaction to completion.

If this reaction proved applicable to L-PAC, the product would be the 1,2-diol.

Organikum - 6-12-2012 at 15:34

l-PACcondensed with hydroxylamine (easily pepared from nitromethane) and this reduced to the amine by

- Al/Hg or Al/Ga (for those paranoid about mercury).
Yields fair to good, has the advantage that the raw extract from the biotransformation can be used directly avoiding hassle with workup which always likes to introduce razemisation...

- noble metal catalysts, Pd usually poisoned with sulfur or similar, preferably in supercritical CO2. Thats industrial and outa reach for most. Best results though.

- Rayney Nickel under elevated to high pressure. Same as above.

- Urushibara Nickel. Not so trivial in preparation as it seems but works with elevated pressure.

With nickel and noble metals it is advised to stir a heavy amount of Urushibara or Rayney nickel, activated but without pressure, heat and hydrogen source into the reaction mix. After some hours filter this out and proceed with the reduction as by the books.
The procedure removes/deactivates catalyst poisons and is for the challenged amateur the basically only way to get this going in decent yields.

regards
ORG

Raney nickel/Formic acid

Jesse Pinkman - 7-12-2012 at 02:09

Or maybe the reduction of L-PAC oxime to amine using Raney nickel and Formic acid as hydrogen donor(if Raney Ni/Formic acid can reduce nitro to amine, it will also reduce the oxime):

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/cth.nitro2amine.rani-hcooh.html

from : Selective Reduction of Nitro Compounds Using Formic Acid and Raney Nickel

Synth. Commun. 30(16), 2889-2895 (2000)

Quote:

Aliphatic and aromatic nitro compounds were selectively reduced to their corresponding amino derivatives in good yields using formic acid and Raney nickel. This system is found to be compatible with several sensitive functionalities such as halogens, -OH, -OCH3, -CHO, -COCH3, -COC6H5, -COOH, -COOEt, -CONH2, -CN, -CH=CH-COOH, -NHCOCH3. The reduction can be carried out not only with HCOOH but also with HCOONH4.




Quote:

A suspension of an appropriate nitro compounds (5 mmol) and Raney nickel (0.2-0.3g) in methanol or in any suitable solvent (3 mL) was stirred with 90% HCOOH (2.5 mL) or ammonium formate (0.5 g) at room temperature. After completion of the reaction (monitored by TLC), the mixture was filtered off. The organic layer was evaporated and the residue dissolve in CHCl3 or ether was washed with saturated NaCl to remove ammonium formate. The organic layer on evaporation gave the desired amino derivatives.


The authors say that there is no need for strong acidic media and pressure apparatus. :)

There is a similar approach for reductive amination with Pd/Formic acid. (uploaded paper)


One problem - this reaction will only produce primary amines, but if one wants secondary amines (in this case ephedrines)?
Maybe monomethylation of PPA with formaldehyde and another hydrogenation with Raney Ni/Formic acid, or direct reductive amination of L-PAC with methylamine and Raney Ni/Formic acid ?

Attachment: redamin.hcook-pd(oac)2.pdf (52kB)
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[Edited on 7-12-2012 by Jesse Pinkman]

Hulagu khan - 19-2-2020 at 00:36

Quote: Originally posted by MEXCHEM2006  
The information came from the book : Secrets Of Methamphetamine Manufacture

.....One would think that the reductive alkylation of that phenylacetone derivative would yield d,l-ephedrine, and then that reduction of that d,l-ephedrine would then give d,l-meth. That same racemic meth that results from reductive alkylation of phenylacetone. (Your Uncle prefers the buzz produced by the racemate over the harsher, more nerve jangling buzz produced by d-meth.) Apparently, this isn't the case. The references for this process claim that solely l-ephedrine is produced, and then reduction of this l-ephedrine, which is identical to natural ephedrine, yields that potent but harsh d-meth.
The phenylpropanol-1-one-2 can be reductively alkylated to give l-ephedrine. Any one of several methods can be used, just as in the case of reductively alkylating phenylacetone to meth. Method number one has to be catalytic hydrogenation using platinum catalyst.
In the example taken from US Patent 1,956,950, the chemists place 300 ml of the distilled phenyl-propanol-1-one-2 in the hydrogenation bomb along with one gram of platinum catalyst, and 85 grams of 33% methylamine solution. They state that it's advantageous to add some ether to the hydrogenation solution. How much is some, they don't say. They then hydrogenate the solution in the usual manner, with up to 3 atmospheres of hydrogen pressure, and magnetic stirring of the contents of the hydrogenation bomb.
When absorption of hydrogen stops in two or three hours, the platinum catalyst is filtered out. Then the ethery hydrogenation mixture is shaken with a volume or two of 10% HCl solution to pull the ephedrine out of the ether and into the acid water, forming the HCl salt of ephedrine. The ether layer is separated off with a sep funnel, then the dilute acid is boiled away. The residue is diluted with a little alcohol, and then a lot more ether. Passing dry HCl through this mixture then gives crystals of pure ephedrine hydrochloride. Their yield was around 110 grams.
My commentary on this hydrogenation? That yield is awfully low. Using phenylacetone as a guide, one should be expecting a yield around 300 grams of ephedrine. What's up? Check out the amount of methylamine used. There are about two moles of the phenylacetone derivative, but they don't even use one mole of methylamine. It should be the other way around, an excess of methylamine. Perhaps this is how they only get l-ephedrine from the phenylacetone derivative. In any case, I'd much rather have 300 grams of racephedrine than 110 grams of 1-ephedrine. My thoughts are that one would be better served just going to Chapter Eleven, and just plug in this phenylacetone derivative for the regular phenylacetone. That means two or three moles of methylamine for each mole of phenylacetone, alcohol as solvent, and a bit more platinum catalyst in the mixture.
In the patent, they give another reductive alkylation example. They use amalgamated aluminum as the reducer, just like in Method Three in Chapter Twelve. They take 120 grams of the undistilled fermentation product containing the 1-phenylpropanol-1-one-2, and drip it over the course of two hours into a solution of 10 grams of methylamine in 500 ml of ether in the presence of 20 grams of activated aluminum amalgam. Simultaneously, they drip into the mixture 20 to 30 ml of water. Stirring of the mixture is required.
The vigorous reaction that sets in is moderated by periodic cooling. When the reaction is complete after a few hours, they filter the mixture to remove the aluminum. Then they shake the ether solution with 10% HCl solution to draw the ephedrine into the water. The ether layer is separated then the dilute acid boiled off. The residue is thinned with a little alcohol, then dissolved in a lot more ether. Bubbling with dry HCl gives 25 to 45 grams of 1-ephedrine hydrochloride crystals.
My commentary on this procedure is identical to the last one. So little methylamine used! I haven't tried this, but I would be surprised to say the least if more methylamine didn't greatly increase the yield of product. I would also think that any one of the activated aluminum procedures given in Chapter Twelve could be used, just by plugging in this phenylacetone derivative for the regular phenylacetone. Also the use of ether is to be avoided when possible.


I’m a newbie so excuse the ignorance, I would like to pick your brain, in his book Uncle Fester mentioned brewing ephedrine and than he speaks about using toluene as a solvent and when it comes to one of the reduction methods he speaks about using undistilled fermentation product as part of the reduction with aluminum amalgam, ether, methylamine, etc. I would like some clarification there by what he means by UNDISTILLED FERMENTATION PRODUCT is he talking about the product after removing the yeast but before using the solvent or is he talking about after using the solvent and than doing the first distillation before doing the vaccuum distillation? The same chapter of the book I’m asking about is the one I just quoted which was posted by Mexchem

Hulagu khan - 19-2-2020 at 00:41

Found the information I needed from another forum posted by Orgy....

[Edited on 20-2-2020 by Hulagu khan]