Sciencemadness Discussion Board

How should I treat TATP?

Booze - 10-5-2017 at 18:37

Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?

Deathunter88 - 10-5-2017 at 18:51

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?


This sciencemadness wiki post should clear some things up: http://sciencemadness.wikia.com/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

LD5050 - 10-5-2017 at 20:42

I think I know what video you are talking about and the kid is a total moron. Please please pleaseee be careful with that stuff dude seriously the kid in the video you are referring to is SO LUCKY he is not dead or mamed by now. Just because he has been lucky up till now doesn't mean u will be and for some random reason you could possibly have just the right conditions one time for that to just randomly blow up in ur face and that's it your life is over or your face is gone because you decided to make some stupid unstable explosive just to hear it go bang...is it worth the risk? I don't know dude think about it, you're going to do what you want but honestly think about it weigh the risks and bennifits. I understand people tend to over dramatize the dangers of certain chemicals and so forth but but that is one I wouldn't want to screw around with unless you KNOW EXACTALY WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!

unionised - 11-5-2017 at 12:39

"How should I treat TATP?"
Respectfully, or not at all.

Rhodanide - 12-5-2017 at 07:25

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?


Pardon my French, but I highly recommend that you DO NOT fuck with organic peroxides. Personally, I made over 200g over the course of three years, without incident. I was extremely lucky, others weren't so. I've found that it's just not a risk I'm ever willing to take again. So, I swore never to make any more organic peroxides. And I haven't since. Disposing of them is a nightmare. Chemically destroying them is very tricky, and I still haven't found a method that is reliable. Don't risk it. Be safe.

-T/Azide

[Edited on 12-5-2017 by Tetra]

JJay - 12-5-2017 at 12:38

Is this all organic peroxides? I have been thinking about making peracetic acid and perbenzoic acid....

Fulmen - 12-5-2017 at 13:48

How you should view TATP? Like a wounded tiger, preferably through binoculars.

Ozone - 12-5-2017 at 14:32

Peracetic acid has never given me any trouble under conditions of reasonable use. I've never used perbenzoic acid, so I can't really say (looks OK, though).

TATP? Just don't. Really.

O3

Booze - 12-5-2017 at 19:58

Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?


Pardon my French, but I highly recommend that you DO NOT fuck with organic peroxides. Personally, I made over 200g over the course of three years, without incident. I was extremely lucky, others weren't so. I've found that it's just not a risk I'm ever willing to take again. So, I swore never to make any more organic peroxides. And I haven't since. Disposing of them is a nightmare. Chemically destroying them is very tricky, and I still haven't found a method that is reliable. Don't risk it. Be safe.

-T/Azide

[Edited on 12-5-2017 by Tetra]


I like to make things that go boom. What do you mean disposing of them is a nightmare? I dump most my chemical waste in a bucket and dump it in the gutter.

Booze - 12-5-2017 at 20:24

Quote: Originally posted by LD5050  
I think I know what video you are talking about and the kid is a total moron. Please please pleaseee be careful with that stuff dude seriously the kid in the video you are referring to is SO LUCKY he is not dead or mamed by now. Just because he has been lucky up till now doesn't mean u will be and for some random reason you could possibly have just the right conditions one time for that to just randomly blow up in ur face and that's it your life is over or your face is gone because you decided to make some stupid unstable explosive just to hear it go bang...is it worth the risk? I don't know dude think about it, you're going to do what you want but honestly think about it weigh the risks and bennifits. I understand people tend to over dramatize the dangers of certain chemicals and so forth but but that is one I wouldn't want to screw around with unless you KNOW EXACTALY WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!


I make 1-2 grams if I want to. It seems to be completely safe when wet, and really fun when it goes boom. I will never make enough to make my finger go off.

j_sum1 - 12-5-2017 at 20:44

I might be mistaken but I thought 1-2 grams was plenty enough to take a finger off.
Certainly enough to take out an eye.

With the admonitions of several experienced members here I would think the risk/reward ratio means that playing with this stuff just isn't worth it -- no matter what the boom is like.
There are plenty of other substances that give a good bang. Why not go for one of those?

Antiswat - 12-5-2017 at 23:37

treat it as thou wilt, only one way to find out if you have understood the compounds nature correctly
i know many people have had the idea that the compound has a personality of spirit simply because of their own ignorance, or should we still keep the idea of the chemical compound being demonic in its nature open?

it can turn into gas and condense inside a container during storage so you want to avoid screwlid, it can also ignite with static discharge and in open air more than 10g will self-confine

anything neat or useful comes with a risk but this compound is not for a beginner to handle, many ways you can mess up with this exact thing

it may be "physically" (although physical is a myth hm) stable when wettened or plasticized but it still has tendency to form large sensitive singlecrystals, which one of them snapping could be enough to get the whole thing going

Booze - 13-5-2017 at 07:35

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I might be mistaken but I thought 1-2 grams was plenty enough to take a finger off.
Certainly enough to take out an eye.

With the admonitions of several experienced members here I would think the risk/reward ratio means that playing with this stuff just isn't worth it -- no matter what the boom is like.
There are plenty of other substances that give a good bang. Why not go for one of those?

This one is really easy to make.

What are some of the things you suggest?

hyfalcon - 13-5-2017 at 09:49

SADS

Booze - 13-5-2017 at 10:15

Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon  
SADS

Sudden arrhythmic death syndrome?

j_sum1 - 13-5-2017 at 16:39

SADS
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  

Sudden arrhythmic death syndrome?

Close enough.


Seriously though, you have been warned of the dangers. I don't know why you are not listening.
You state that one of the attractions of TATP is ease of preparation but seem flippant about the downside (and the legality).
I don't really understand why you don't want to upskill to do something safer.

Here is a resource that you might look into. It contains a lot of useful information on all manner of energetic materials, their synthesis, use, testing, associated risks and procedures for safe handling.


edit: formatting

[Edited on 14-5-2017 by j_sum1]

Booze - 13-5-2017 at 16:59

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
SADS
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  

Sudden arrhythmic death syndrome?

Close enough.


Seriously though, you have been warned of the dangers. I don't know why you are not listening.
You state that one of the attractions of TATP is ease of preparation but seem flippant about the downside (and the legality).
I don't really understand why you don't want to upskill to do something safer.

Here is a resource that you might look into. It contains a lot of useful information on all manner of energetic materials, their synthesis, use, testing, associated risks and procedures for safe handling.


edit: formatting

[Edited on 14-5-2017 by j_sum1]


I am listening, I just don't reallyy like what you are proposing. I have only made TATP once, and don't really plan on making it again. Oh well.

Antiswat - 14-5-2017 at 01:15

i once had some kid writing to me that he made something like 100g of the stuff and it was in the basement drying out, he didnt even bother washing it
its infamous because its very easy to make and extremely ignorant people make it
the kid seemingly didnt die from it
another guy i talked to had a small bit of it in his room very close to some firecrackers, as he tried grabbing the firecracker static ignited the AP which was enough to ignite fuse and he had to quickly get the now lit firecracker out the window
karma should maybe be considered if handling difficult compounds

hyfalcon - 14-5-2017 at 14:28

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon  
SADS

Sudden arrhythmic death syndrome?



http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17055

Rhodanide - 15-5-2017 at 05:31

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Is this all organic peroxides? I have been thinking about making peracetic acid and perbenzoic acid....

That's totally fine, those kinds of Peroxides are all okay to handle normally. At least, that's what I've found.

JJay - 15-5-2017 at 05:39

That's kind of what I figured... I'll make sure I understand the dangers before attempting to make either.

AJKOER - 16-5-2017 at 06:36

OK, on disposing keep in mind that if you think 1g of this stuff on detonation is bad, by the rough cube rule for explosives, the bang of 70 g is 70 cubed times as worse. That is, 343,000 times more intense!!!!!!

So the word 'bang' just doesn't do justice, and this one reason one should never make anything other than very small amounts of energetic material (like a mg, not a gram).

[Edited on 16-5-2017 by AJKOER]

Booze - 16-5-2017 at 13:25

Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  
OK, on disposing keep in mind that if you think 1g of this stuff on detonation is bad, by the rough cube rule for explosives, the bang of 70 g is 70 cubed times as worse. That is, 343,000 times more intense!!!!!!

So the word 'bang' just doesn't do justice, and this one reason one should never make anything other than very small amounts of energetic material (like a mg, not a gram).

[Edited on 16-5-2017 by AJKOER]

Wow, that video I found showed a guy with a bottle filled with 70 grams of TATP, and even I know not to do that.

boom

Ozone - 16-5-2017 at 20:28

I'm calling detritus on this one. Solid advice has been given, whatever the outcome.

O3

Schleimsäure - 17-5-2017 at 06:30

Hands off TATP, or hands will be off because of TATP.

Well, certainly hundreds if not thousends of kids handle that stuff, because it's so easy to synthesize. And most of them certainly have had no accident.
Still, if the propability of an unwanted explosion is 5%, this is extremely high.

There are other, safer HE.




Antiswat - 20-5-2017 at 00:27

70g doesnt yield 70x70 times more energy, however larger quantities of energetic material tends to give off energy faster, this is related to critical diameter, but it isnt anywhere near 10 times as much energy per "time" unless if were talking milligrammes vs tonnes

i would really like to see linoleum peroxide, its what forms when linoleum gets air and the resultant peroxidation which is exothermic heats up, every now and then resulting in rags with linoleum on 'em catches fire, possibly a weak peroxide
ether peroxide on the other hand, im gonna assume this still havent been made
ap is a gamble, you should with exactly this think more than do

greenlight - 20-5-2017 at 01:17

Just thought I would put this up. It's a friction sensitivity results graph for common primaries that has TATP and HMTD results as well.
Most research doesn't bother with peroxides so it is unusual to see them on there.

[Edited on 20-5-2017 by greenlight]

Screenshot_2017-05-20-01-35-37-1.jpg - 360kB

Rhodanide - 22-5-2017 at 05:40

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?


Pardon my French, but I highly recommend that you DO NOT fuck with organic peroxides. Personally, I made over 200g over the course of three years, without incident. I was extremely lucky, others weren't so. I've found that it's just not a risk I'm ever willing to take again. So, I swore never to make any more organic peroxides. And I haven't since. Disposing of them is a nightmare. Chemically destroying them is very tricky, and I still haven't found a method that is reliable. Don't risk it. Be safe.

-T/Azide

[Edited on 12-5-2017 by Tetra]


I like to make things that go boom. What do you mean disposing of them is a nightmare? I dump most my chemical waste in a bucket and dump it in the gutter.


...and that's a terrible idea, as well as a bad thing to do.

[Edited on 22-5-2017 by Tetra]

NEMO-Chemistry - 24-5-2017 at 02:30

Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by Booze  
Should I be aware of this? I saw one video, and the guy just throws it around and keeps 70 grams of it, and has kept it for 7 months. Then I saw another video saying you should not keep it for more than 10 hours and be extremely carefull with it. I just made a batch, and it is in the fridge right now. Is it really that dangerous, or is it something to be laid back about?


Pardon my French, but I highly recommend that you DO NOT fuck with organic peroxides. Personally, I made over 200g over the course of three years, without incident. I was extremely lucky, others weren't so. I've found that it's just not a risk I'm ever willing to take again. So, I swore never to make any more organic peroxides. And I haven't since. Disposing of them is a nightmare. Chemically destroying them is very tricky, and I still haven't found a method that is reliable. Don't risk it. Be safe.

-T/Azide

[Edited on 12-5-2017 by Tetra]


I like to make things that go boom. What do you mean disposing of them is a nightmare? I dump most my chemical waste in a bucket and dump it in the gutter.


You are one reason home chemistry is in decline, no offence but your attitude needs some adjustment. Fortunately Darwin has a habit of cleaning up genetic mistakes.