Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Obtaining Potassium Nitrate

Obtaining Potassium Nitrate

raistlin - 6-7-2002 at 09:31

Where can I obtain a reasonable ammount of potassium nitrate, or is it possible to remoce it from something like a household cleaning product and how could I go about exrtacting it?

Raistlin

Polverone - 8-7-2002 at 11:09

One household product that is often potassium nitrate is powdered stump remover. Look at gardening centers to find it. You probably won't find it at chain stores - though you might get lucky. Look at nurseries, hydroponics suppliers, and agricultural suppliers. If you can find a hydroponics supplier they will probably have pure potassium nitrate sold as such, plus a variety of other interesting chemicals.

I have seen potassium nitrate ("saltpeter") sold in small bottles at a variety of drugstores. This is a pretty expensive way to get it, although it will be very pure. It's enough for some smaller experiments if you can't find any better source. It is in fact how I first obtained KNO3 before I got a sack of fertilizer.

If you can find a good agricultural supplier you can get calcium, sodium, potassium, and ammonium nitrates at very low prices, like $15 for 50 pounds of potassium nitrate or 80 pounds of ammonium nitrate.

Look under materials -> dry chemicals at www.clayartcenter.com for another relatively inexpensive source of KNO3. www.pyrotek.org is another decent source, although their prices are higher, since they don't do any age verification and accept Paypal.

Ramiel - 5-9-2002 at 00:46

I also got my potassium nitrate from a farming type store. They call themselves "produce wholesalers". AUS$2 per Kilogram, which is about US$1 per 2.5 ounces

trinitrotoluene - 18-10-2002 at 11:15

I got my Potassium Nitrate at the pharmacy. Its under the name Saltpeter. Maybe not the best place to buy it because it cost $2.75 for a 4 once bottle

KNO3

NERV - 18-10-2002 at 12:02

I get my KNO3 from home depot. Just ask one of the guys where they keep the stump remover. The kind I get comes in a gray bottle with a little nozzle to pour it. It is simply named stump remover.

Uggggggg...

NERV - 18-10-2002 at 12:05

stupid thing wont let me edit.

well anyway I forgot to add that it cost about 3 dollars.

trinitrotoluene - 18-11-2002 at 16:26

Thanks now i will get my KNO3 from stump removers. I cant beleave ive been wasting so much money buying KNO3 from the pharmacy.

trinitrotoluene - 30-11-2002 at 17:27

I've also did a couple of experenments to extract KNO3 from the soil.Bloody anarchist cookbook my yeald was about a few grams and it was badly contaminated. Now I obtain my KNO3 in fertilizers. The name is called Nitrate Of Potash I think. It is sold at ACE hardware in boxes.

interesting

alien14305 - 30-11-2002 at 19:43

Called nitrate of potash? I think there is an ace hardware in my town, gonna look it up in my phonebook to see.

Rhadon - 1-12-2002 at 06:53

I tried hard to find out what "stump remover" means in German, but I wasn't able to translate it. Can someone please describe what "stump remover" does?

Polverone - 1-12-2002 at 13:26

"Stump remover" accelerates the destruction of tree stumps by providing a lot of nitrogen for the bacteria living in the wood. More nutrients lead to more bacteria and therefore more rapid decomposition of the stump by bacterial metabolism.

Rhadon - 1-12-2002 at 14:28

Ahh, now I understand. I thought that this could be the meaning of "stump remover" but I couldn't imagine how KNO₃ can "remove" a stump. Thank you!

Pickled Meat

Syanide - 11-12-2002 at 21:13

KNO3 can be found in pharmacies or food stores as saltpetre, it is used to pickle meat. What is pickled meat? i have no idea but that's what it says on the bottle.

BASF - 12-12-2002 at 05:44

Another way, for those who need to do sth with the rest of a 50kg-fertilizer-sack:

K2CO3(pot ash)+2NH4NO3>(more than 50°C, few water)2KNO3+2NH3+CO2+H2O

DeusExMachina - 17-12-2002 at 15:02

I didnt read all the posts so I dont know if someone said this or not but stump remover has potassium nitrate in it, it is a preservative or, you can just order it from pyrotek.

trinitrotoluene - 24-12-2002 at 20:49

Well yesterday I had went to the local ace hardware and brougt some stump remover. The brand is called GRANT'S Stump Remover. It comes in 1 lb or 454 gram bottles. It is potassium nitrate but i notice something strange with the smell it smells like urea. So i advise you that brand is not that pure KNO3 so dont buy that brand. I will buy more different brand to see and test the purity.

Phyte - 3-2-2003 at 14:28

Anyone know where to obtain kno3 from the UK?

I have found various plant fertilisers but I dont know if it is the right stuff and i need it in solid form

Anyone know what the 3 numbers are of kno3 that are listed on the front?

Nitrogen (N), Phosphorus (P), and Potassium (K).

NN-PP-KK
eg 20-20-20
-phyte

AngelEyes - 4-2-2003 at 04:28

I don't know where to get KNO3 in the UK, but I can find NaNO3 in my local DIY place. It's a little village one and has lots of unusual stuff you don't find in somewhere like Homebase. NaNO3 is almost as good as KNO3...but more hygroscopic so it needs to be well dried. You can also find conc H2SO4 as drain cleaner, almost pure sulphur as dusting powder for gardens, NaClO3 as weedkiller (only 53% though). You can distill H2SO4 and NaNO3 to get Nitric Acid. Also, there are some interesting copmpounds that can be made with 30 volume Hydrogen Peroxide from any chemist. Search for HMTD or Acetone Peroxide, but be careful as organic peroxides are very sensitive.

Hope that's useful.

DeusExMachina - 4-2-2003 at 09:59

that's great then... if you really need KNO3 maybe you can go to another town or something and get some. Also, if by chance you cant make HNO3, you can go to a jeweler and buy some as gold tester (I havn't done this because I'm going make it soon. I also havn't been able to do it because I havn't had the chance to go to the hardware store yet by myself.)

DeusExMachina - 18-2-2003 at 21:00

sorry fot double postign but I would like to know what type of a container grant's stump remover comes in so I kknow what to look for at the store (I'd rather avoid asking someone at the store to help me find it)

trinitrotoluene - 19-2-2003 at 17:01

A plastic container. The color is white and the plastic is made of HDPE (high density polyethylene).

Haggis - 20-2-2003 at 20:26

This might give you guys an idea of what stump remover is like. http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/prdSell_1.asp?ProdGroupID...
I have never purchased stump remover for Potassium Nitrate so I have no suggestions there. This stuff is quite expensive, 9 dollars for 227 grams of the stuff.
Edit: Spelling

[Edited on 21-2-2003 by Haggis]

DDTea - 26-2-2003 at 00:02

I don't know about you all, but I've had considerable trouble finding KNO3. I tried the pharmacies, gardening stores, and hardware stores, but none carry it.

However, as someone mentioned earlier, reacting an aqueous base solution with aqueous NH4NO3 yields KNO3. This is the method I use now, since I can easily obtain NH4NO3 as well as Potassium Hydroxide. The only problem with this method is the nasty Ammonia Gas given off

This stump remover dosen't work

trinitrotoluene - 1-3-2003 at 12:30

I had brougt a stump remover called BONIDE Stump-Out. I only brought it because its 40 cents cheaper then the GRANTS stump remover.I decided to test it so I used the 60/40 smoke mixture. When heated with a stove the mixture woulden't melt. Getting frestrated at that I dumped 30 match heads into it and lit it, noting happand. So just a moment ago I decided to see what will happan if added to H2SO4. I took 40ml of H2SO4 and added 10 grams of the stump remever to it. It reacted and gave off nasty HCl gas. What I can understand from that was the stump remover what some sort of a chloride. I'm not sure what chloride it is, I also tried to do a flame test on it but my results are not conclusive. I will do farther do flame test to see what chloride it is.

not all stump removers work

blazter - 1-3-2003 at 12:46

a long time ago I tried to use a generic brand stump remover as a source of KNO3 and it didnt work at all. Doing a flame test gave a bright yellow flame which i assumed was sodium. It was totally inert in a sugar mix. The only thing that sticks out in my mind about it was the fact that it really ate up aluminum when it was in solution and the solution smelled REALLY bad knida sickly like puke. I ended up just pouring the crap on a stump in the backyard :mad:

DeusExMachina - 3-3-2003 at 15:30

why didnt you guys check out the ingredients first?

trinitrotoluene - 3-3-2003 at 21:45

For most stump removers it dosen't say.

Skean Dhu - 10-4-2003 at 12:22

Hi-Yeild brand stump remover has 1.5 lbs of it for like $3 in the prilled form, and it says on the back CAUTION: contains potassium nitrate, FYI for those of you in the States

Monoxide - 6-9-2003 at 13:08

If anyones still lookin for info on this i found this site to have pretty good info on the subject plus i ended up getting a good amount of info from the many other pages on the site

http://krimzonpyro.com/ep/projectsdevicesdir/kno3.html

Purifying KNO3

NitroCarboNitrate - 28-9-2003 at 16:56

I'm only new here, and havent had a good look around, but thought I would post this FYI.
This is verbatim for MERCK INDEX Twelfth Edition.
Lots of clues for purifiying Pot Nitrate.
7815. Potassium Nitrate Saltpeter niter KNO3 mol wt 101.10 K 13.85% O 47.47% Contains~99.5% KNO3
Colourless transparent prism, white granular or cryst powder cooling saline pungent taste d2.11 MP 333deg C Dec @ 400deg C with evolution of O2

one gram dissolves in2.8ml water 0.5ml boiling water.620 ml alcohol. Sol in glycerol insoluble in absolute alcohol Dissolves in water with a lowering of temperature. PH~7.LD50 orally in wabbits 1.166g anion/kg
CAUTION ingestion of large quantities may cause violent gastroenteritis prolonged exposure to small amounts may produce anemia methemoglobinemia nephritis.
USES. in firework fluxes pickling meats manufacture glass matches gunpowder blasting powders freezing mictures impregnating candle wicks treating tobacco to make it burn easily tempering steel
Theraputic catogory Diuretic.

So, it dissolves more so in boiling water than cold and it wont dissolve in absolute alcohol.
I think I need to put some backed epsom salts into that bottle of methylated spirits for a few days and then wash my stump grinder in it whilst slowly heating it to about 55 deg C. wash rinse wash rinse.
then see what is left. ( I am assuming you have weighed your product before, and will weigh after)
Then a boiling water wash, dissolve, then into the fridge, harvest xtal's boil reduce freeze, etc etc.
This is assuming that the major other ingredient is Urea, which is a HUGE source of nitrogen.
This is because urea CH4N2O is very soluble in Abs Alcohol Pot Nitrate isnt.
These are the solubilitys for urea.
1 Gram dissolves in 1ml water 10 ml 95% alcohol 1ml boiling 95% alcohol 20ml Abs alcohol 6ml methanol 2ml glycerol almost insoluble in chloroform ether soluble in concentrated HCL..
So, there you go, enough info to start purifying your "stump remover"
I personally think that a more effective stump remover using KNO3, whould be to mix it with sulphur and charcoal. LOL

Further to previous post

NitroCarboNitrate - 28-9-2003 at 22:45

O.k. here is a couple of links
first is an MSDS of a typical 'Stump remover'
second is a how to use 'Stump remover'

http://www.southernag.com/Ms1216.PDF

http://www.southernag.com/STUMP.pdf

Data from the MSDS tells that their product is 99% KNO3, but I would think that is has been ' desensitized' the same as commercial Ammonium nitrate fertilisers.
After all we don't want any more truck bombers.
If this is how you get this product/compound, I would try make a batch (small) of black powder with it, and see how it goes (as it wont burn on its own)
If you are using this to make fuming Nitric acid, then I would definately do a alcohol wash, water dissolve/reXtalisation on it.

Also, in previous post, epsom salts should be Baked (not'backed'

in an oven for 20 minutes at 220 deg C to drive of water before placing into Ethyl alcohol to dry it out.

kno3

jimwig - 22-10-2003 at 12:57

i recently purchased otc about 50 pounds from a wholesale garden supply store here in the southeastern us.

these places do not advertise and are known basically to the trade. this one sold to me for cash. also got 40 pounds of muriate of potash (kcl) and lime.

whole thing cost about $40 USD.

these places are out there just takes a bit of a search to locate.

legs brains motivation

very true

Polverone - 22-10-2003 at 15:09

80 pounds ammonium nitrate: $14.50
50 pounds urea: $10.00

Both were purchased a bit over a year ago from an agricultural co-op place. Try finding prices like that for technical grade materials from a lab supplier!

Oh, and NitroCarboNitrate, I'm sure your KNO3 isn't "desensitized." It can't be made to detonate like NH4NO3 in the first place. Treat it like any other tech. grade KNO3.

potassium nitrate

JJ - 28-11-2003 at 16:53

The stump remover I used was DEXOL and it was 95% +,and I used recrystalization using H20 and it worked very well.I think that Bonide stump remover is copper sulphate?

obtaining kn03

theh0ser - 6-12-2003 at 18:48

does anyone know how i can obtain kn03 in Canada?

Haggis - 6-12-2003 at 19:10

Searching is good. Spoonfeeding is bad. However, I knew a supplier in Canada offhand, so I'll be nice. www.expeditedchemicals.com

[Edited on 7-12-2003 by Haggis]

Polverone - 6-12-2003 at 21:08

You can get NH4NO3, ammonium nitrate, from instant cold packs. This can be heated with potassium carbonate, bicarbonate, or hydroxide to produce potassium nitrate. Potassium hydroxide is used in soapmaking, the carbonate is used in photography and making ceramics, and the bicarbonate is used in brewing and photography. If nobody in Canada makes ceramics, wine, or their own photographic prints, your options may be limited.

I know you can also get nitrate fertilizers in Canada because I just found several articles on the web warning of this great "danger."

theh0ser - 6-12-2003 at 23:19

jus a quick question on ammonium nitrate, ive seen a post where some guy said he tried mixing ammonium nitrate with sugar, similar to the potassium nitrate and sugar propellant but it didnt work...i know that ammonium nitrate and potassium nitrate have different properties but shouldnt the AN supply the sugar with oxygen? maybe it has a higher igntion temp.

Polverone - 7-12-2003 at 04:55

The interaction between molten oxidizing salts (like KNO3) and fuels is complex. I hesitate to offer a simplified explanation for fear that my own understanding is incomplete or flawed.

But I will point out that NH4NO3 has less oxygen available, since the hydrogen it contains will combine with some oxygen, and since it completely turns to gases it leaves no molten phase for the fuel to interact with.

funny world

Organikum - 7-12-2003 at 05:54

I can buy pottassium nitrate in every drugstore but there is no way to get acetic acid (vinegar is limited to 8%max) - photosuppliers sell citric acid instead.

So I make my GAA from acetone...... LOL

[Edited on 7-12-2003 by Organikum]

Mendeleev - 25-12-2003 at 15:37

I use Greenlight Co. stump remover sold at Lowes in 454 gram bottles for $4.50, it comes in a fine crystalline form. Home Depot sell Grant's which is also okay. Stump Out brand sucks it contains no KNO3.

[Edited on 25-12-2003 by Mendeleev]

theh0ser - 25-12-2003 at 19:58

did you get the stump remover in
Canada?

Mendeleev - 26-12-2003 at 09:08

I live in the USA, but you can probably find an agricultural shop in Canada and ask for fertilizer in the 13-0-46 ratio. Here's a pdf of all the different fertilizers that might come in use to you, just as a guide:

82-0-0 = pure ammonia
46-0-0 = pure urea
34-0-0 = ammonium nitrate
13-0-46 = potassium nitrate

Attachment: BelowBackground-Prod.pdf (222kB)
This file has been downloaded 5101 times

Mendeleev - 26-12-2003 at 09:15

Here's a pic of one of the better KNO3 fertilizer sources, it says its chloride free, which is good because many fertilizers contain lot of salt. If things get really desperate you can always cross the border if you live in Canada and go to the nearest Lowes.

Attachment: Multi-K (169kB)
This file has been downloaded 1713 times

Obtaning Large Amounts of hundreds of chemicals

pyrofreak - 19-2-2004 at 18:02

If you live in the USA(which I do) you can buy large amounts of chemicals online at skylighter.com. I got 32 pounds of 100%PURE Potassium Nitrate, for about US$23.00. There are hundreds of other chemicals there for pyrotechnics, smokebombs, and chemistry. WOW

Mendeleev - 19-2-2004 at 20:48

I think most people already knew about skylighter, also check out:

http://firefox-fx@firefox-fx.com/
http://www.pyrotek.org/
http://www.sciencelab.com/
http://www.elementalscientific.net/

tom haggen - 22-2-2004 at 12:02

I got some of this stuff for stump removing but it doesn't say the ingredients any where. Anybody know if this has potassium nitrate in it? it says it's non-explosive so it probably doesn't

http://www.bonideproducts.com/products/stumpout.htm

[Edited on 22-2-2004 by tom haggen]

Mendeleev - 22-2-2004 at 20:08

Wow, you got screwed, stump-out is the worst brand, good for nothing. Get either Grant's or Green Light, they're >98% KNO3. I have about 5 kilograms of green light lying around my house at any given time. I always use them for HNO3 manufacture.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Mendeleev]

tom haggen - 22-2-2004 at 20:56

no worries that shit was cheap I got a discount. Anyone have any idea if there is any useful chemicals in that stump-out shit.

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by tom haggen]

KNO3

Pyroking - 4-3-2004 at 05:54

There is aver 50% KNO3 in grants stump remover and others, they usually come n prills so i would ball mill them for about 2 hours to get a fine dust, then throw in what ever else you want to add (BP etc...
)

tom haggen - 4-3-2004 at 17:16

I had a hell of a time finding over the counter KNO3 so far. The only source I have been able to find is from those damm mole smoke bomb things. It is hardly a cost effective way of obtaining KNO3, but at least they come with a couple pieces of cannon fuse.

If you are really determined.....

Hermes_Trismegistus - 4-3-2004 at 21:18

Very large burlap bags(100 lbs plus) can be filled to overflowing with wet(but not dripping) dung.

Keep the outsides relatively clean of dung.

The bags can be hung from a tree (just keep them from touching the ground)

as the water from the dung evaporates it will leach salts onto the outside of the bag.

These salts contain a high percentage of nitrates but also contain sodium salt.

The salts must be scraped off and dissolved in water and filtered to remove solid impurities, and then boiled and repetitively cooled/filtered until all/most of the sodium salts crystallize out.

The remaining supersaturated will be mostly pottasium nitrate, at least pure enough for gunpowder.

This is the original preparation from the middle ages. (except they usually used very large and long rows surrounded by a "fence" of the homespun cloth).

They wanted to maximise the use of the cloth because textiles were extremely pricey back in the days when it was sheared, spun and woven by hand labour.

KNO3

MadHatter - 30-9-2004 at 17:07

In the U.S., I bought a 50 LB bag of KNO3 for $19.95 + $20 HAZMAT fee
+ shipping. The total cost was $43 + change. I calculated a per LB cost
of just under 87 cents. This is the link:

http://www.atlantishydroponics.com

guy - 1-10-2004 at 14:31

I bought a Greenlight stump remover and it has a smell, like fertilizer or something.
Potassium nitrate doesn't have a smell. It might be cotaminated because the cap was kind of messed up. Well is there any way of testing if its KNO3?

KNO3

MadHatter - 2-10-2004 at 08:00

Any KNO3 I've ever bought or made does have a smell. Maybe my nose
is sensitive to nitrates. The taste of KNO3 is cool and bitter.

KNO3

MadHatter - 3-10-2004 at 19:48

Sorry for double-posting. Please forgive me. Something I should point
out about KNO3 - don't swallow that shit because it won't kill you -
unless it's a massive dose. But it will definitely interfere with your sex-life !
It's not called saltpetre for nothing !

The_Davster - 3-10-2004 at 19:53

Just to elaborate on Madhatter's post, Saltpetre was once used as a 'medicine' to reduce the sex drive in men.

Also with ingestion of KNO3 there is also the risk of nitrite poisoning.

Magpie - 4-10-2004 at 15:45

In regard to using saltpetre to inhibit sex drive I tried this once as a teenager (ate probably a gram or 2) - it didn't work. It would probably work now.

guy - 5-10-2004 at 14:09

Quote:

don't swallow that shit because it won't kill you

Huh? Why would anyone want to kill themselves?

anyways I read in this book and it said that saltpeter was actually used as an aphrodisiac. Wierd. They stopped using it after they foud out it was bad for you.

Can you send me the analysis of the 99.5%KNO3?

freedomwm - 26-10-2004 at 23:50

Quote:

May I get a analysis of the product . Then ,if possible I want to some samle,ok?

So, it dissolves more so in boiling water than cold and it wont dissolve in absolute alcohol.
I think I need to put some backed epsom salts into that bottle of methylated spirits for a few days and then wash my stump grinder in it whilst slowly heating it to about 55 deg C. wash rinse wash rinse.
then see what is left. ( I am assuming you have weighed your product before, and will weigh after)
Then a boiling water wash, dissolve, then into the fridge, harvest xtal's boil reduce freeze, etc etc.
This is assuming that the major other ingredient is Urea, which is a HUGE source of nitrogen.
This is because urea CH4N2O is very soluble in Abs Alcohol Pot Nitrate isnt.
These are the solubilitys for urea.
1 Gram dissolves in 1ml water 10 ml 95% alcohol 1ml boiling 95% alcohol 20ml Abs alcohol 6ml methanol 2ml glycerol almost insoluble in chloroform ether soluble in concentrated HCL..
So, there you go, enough info to start purifying your "stump remover"
I personally think that a more effective stump remover using KNO3, whould be to mix it with sulphur and charcoal. LOL

Potassium Nitrate

JerryK - 1-11-2004 at 07:03

I have 1 5lb box of Nitrate of Soda 16-0-0 and 1 5lb box of Muriate of Potash 0.0.60. I was wondering what would be the procedure in mixing the 2 for making Potassium Nitrate. What would be the weight of mixture, what would it be dissolved in and how would you dry it out. Is it possible?
Thanks in Advance!

Esplosivo - 1-11-2004 at 07:23

Really off topic but Potassium Nitrate ingestion poses a high probability of permanent reproductive disorders, and not the short-term inhibition of sex-drive. It is investigated also as a mutagen, probably due to its metabolism in the body which converts it to the more toxic nitrite.

The reaction between NaNO3 and KCl would result in a mixture of two highly soluble salts, which is very difficult to seperate. Fractional crystallisation is fruitful only when small quantities are used. Carrying out fractional crystallisation for large quantities would result in a loss of time. Better use the NaNO3 as is.

KNO3

MadHatter - 2-11-2004 at 01:40

Before I found a cheap source of KNO3, I made it by mixing NaNO3 and KCl in a
ratio of 1.15:1(or 23:20). Mix with boiling water. I use 51 g NaNO3 and 43 g KCl
for every 200 ml boiling water. Chill to 0 C. Yield is 45 to 46 g KNO3 or about 77%
of available KNO3.

A better and cheap way of getting KNO3!

chemaniac - 29-11-2004 at 06:24

KNO3 is not an expensive chemical.In south asia,specifically in Pakistan it may cost as cheap as US $1 for each kilogram.It is commonly used in greek pharmaocopia as a urinary steriliser.I think you may find it if theres any such clinic around you.

Blackout - 3-12-2004 at 14:10

you can get KNO3 from stump remover, make a search on the brand on google.

HNO3 - 3-12-2004 at 19:39

Hi-Yield Brand always worked for me.

I bought it at ACE(R).

The MSDS says it is 95.5-99.2% PURE

Potassium Nitrate.

aquisition of Kno3

miseryland - 28-12-2004 at 11:58

the easiest way to get high quality potassium nitrate is to by the fertilizer grade, and then process it into the explosive grade, the problem with standard fertilizer grade is that it is often coated in various greasy waxy types of coatings in effort to slow down the release into the soil hence "FERTILIZER".
so anyone wanting pure kno3 will then need to dissolve the kno3 and filter it while hot thru filter paper and then repeat a few times and then boil it all into a super saturated solution and leave to evaporate on a suitable surface, then cook the shit outta it in the oven at its maximum temp (I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENS, IT HAS PROVED SAFE IN AN ELECTRIC STOVE) to drive of any remaining moisture as kno3 is hydroscopic
1/2 an hour should be sufficent.
WARNING: ammonia fumes will be created from this process and while not dangerious can be a extremely overpowering smell, as always exercise caution.

Pyroz - 28-12-2004 at 15:00

Greenleaf CO is a good source for K-nitrate. It is uncoasted and sells for $30 per 25kG bag. This is explosives grade material if you can power it up further.

licence/ ID needed to buy withing Canada.

Ammonia ?

MadHatter - 28-12-2004 at 19:54

Miseryland, what else is mixed in with that KNO3 that would produce NH3 ?
The greasy shit you refer to is probably wax - I would recommend filtering with
ICE WATER to make sure the wax remains behind. The KNO3 I get from
http://www.atlantishydroponics.com doesn't have this problem.

neutrino - 29-12-2004 at 06:44

It sounds like he was confusing potassium nitrate with ammonium nitrate.

JohnSmith - 24-6-2006 at 14:20

I cannot find any good materials in my town, found Grant's Stump Remover however its not very pure and doesnt work that well, i just found Bonide Stump Remover however there are no ingredients labled on it, has anyone heard of it? If so does it work well?

neutrino - 24-6-2006 at 15:01

Grant's stump remover is the good stuff. Search around here for the extraction technique. Bonide is completely worthless.

12AX7 - 24-6-2006 at 16:09

Bonide is sodium pyrosulfite IIRC. A good reducing agent (dissolves in water as sodium bisulfite, so acidic and reducing) but certainly not useful for pyro.

Tim

Most drugstores I checked had this one...

Chemist514 - 30-6-2006 at 11:48

Something like 8 out of 10. If you want lots I guess it isnt so good but for general chem 100 grams for about 4 bucks was ok for me and I was assuming it to be pure...
Interesting point.. seems all chems in Montreal drugstores are made by Atlas Labs. Must be nice that no competition thing. Just not for me. lol

FFFFg - 31-7-2006 at 09:52

yeah i know this post is old but for people who are lookin at it now the grants stump remover is about 98% pure KNO3

triphenylphosphineoxide - 3-8-2006 at 06:48

For people who want to try the real old school way.

Take a huge pile of manure, mix with CaO.
Urinate on this frequently
Collect aqueous solution and reapply for twelve months.
After twelve months take the outer two inches and wash with water.
Evaporate- discard first ppt Solution is now mostly Ca(NO3)2.
To this solution add K2CO3 - CaCO3 will ppt.

I am currently trying this, will give results in 12 months

not_important - 4-8-2006 at 00:24

One trad method, used where there was a fairly consistent prevaling wind, was to make windrows. Fresh offering were placed on one face, the other face was being dried by the winds. This resulted in fluids being drawn through the pile, niter crystals would form on the dry face and periodically be scraped off.

Starting in the later 19th century on up to WW-I, often sewage was 'mined' for ammonia. Slaked lime would be added and the liquid boiled to drive off the ammonia, which then was collected in water, or in H2SO4 or HCl to form the ammonium salt.

pots-o-potash - 5-8-2006 at 21:41

I've ised Grant's Stump Remover (in prills before and it worked well in KNO3/sugar rocket mixes and made black powder powerful enough to use in firecrackers (paper football type) which is pretty good considdering I used Grant's sulfur dust (which is only 92% pure) to make it.
Also I remember reading on a product analysis site that Grant's was 98-100% pure (obviously meaning the consumer defininithion of 100% which just means 99.99+%)
Ibought mine at OSH (orchard supply) for ~$5.00.
FYI Greenlight stump remover comes as a powder not prills and have also seen "Lilly Miller Stump remover and Potassium Nitrate" sold in plastic reasealable baggies in cardboard boxes. Does anione have any experience whith this?

Boudreaux - 7-8-2006 at 08:12

What's the best/easiest/most efficient way to grind the "prills" into powder?

Quote:

Originally posted by pots-o-potash
I've ised Grant's Stump Remover (in prills before and it worked well in KNO3/sugar rocket mixes and made black powder powerful enough to use in firecrackers (paper football type) which is pretty good considdering I used Grant's sulfur dust (which is only 92% pure) to make it.
Also I remember reading on a product analysis site that Grant's was 98-100% pure (obviously meaning the consumer defininithion of 100% which just means 99.99+%)
Ibought mine at OSH (orchard supply) for ~$5.00.
FYI Greenlight stump remover comes as a powder not prills and have also seen "Lilly Miller Stump remover and Potassium Nitrate" sold in plastic reasealable baggies in cardboard boxes. Does anione have any experience whith this?

Mason_Grand_ANNdrews - 7-8-2006 at 10:38

If you want you can get pure KNO3 in small quantities from potassium carbonate and dilute HNO3.
2 HNO3 + K2CO3 -> 2 KNO3 + H2O + CO2
Dissolve 200 g potassium carbonate in 400 ml hot distilled water in a 1000 ml beaker and add 242 ml of 50 % HNO3 in small portions to this.
The solution is than standing for 3 days until crystals of pure KNO3 will precipitate. The water is than vaporised to collect the crystals.
The schoolbook method is when some drops of phenolphtalein solution was added to the K2CO3/H2O mix and HNO3 is added until the indicator will be clear.

[Edited on 7-8-2006 by Mason_Grand_ANNdrews]

pots-o-potash - 7-8-2006 at 22:40

You can use a coffee grinder to powder the prills, but it won't grind all the peices.
A better method is to ball mill them to a fine powder, or if you only need to powder
alittle (less than 50g or best at around 30g) you could use a mortar and pestle. One
with a fine grinding surface works best. (I use a nice Coor's mortat & pestle I got
off ebay and it's smooth to the touch)
Also, it's best to use a tall mortar symilar to the dementions of a short coffee mug, about as tall as it is wide.(Coor's ones realy are great) Just crush the prills first by rocking the pestle over them in the mortar then, when there all broken up, grind with the pestle in a circular motion untill finely powdered.(you may need to scrape to get all the KNO3 out.
(I use the handle of a plastic teaspoon)
My mortar looks like this but the grinding end of the pestle is flatter(it has less of a dome shape) http://cgi.ebay.com/MORTAR-AND-PESTLE-5-DIAMETER-COORS_W0QQi...

KNO3

MadHatter - 7-8-2006 at 23:03

This topic has been covered ad nauseum. The metathesis reaction is the cheapest way
to do it. Nitrates of ammonia(cold packs, fertilizer), calcium(fertilizer), sodium(fertilizer),
and strontium(road flares) can be used in the process because of KNO3's low
solubility at 0C(32F). Yes, HNO3 on K2CO3 works but this is an expensive route. Besides,
HNO3 has many other more important uses.

[Edited on 2006/8/8 by MadHatter]

triphenylphosphineoxide - 10-8-2006 at 06:46

Quote:

Originally posted by not_important
One trad method, used where there was a fairly consistent prevaling wind, was to make windrows. Fresh offering were placed on one face, the other face was being dried by the winds. This resulted in fluids being drawn through the pile, niter crystals would form on the dry face and periodically be scraped off.

Starting in the later 19th century on up to WW-I, often sewage was 'mined' for ammonia. Slaked lime would be added and the liquid boiled to drive off the ammonia, which then was collected in water, or in H2SO4 or HCl to form the ammonium salt.

Excellent I've been experimenting to speed up and reduce losses with traditional method didn't think of wind rows and theres a consistent westerly here. Slaps self for not thinking of making ammonia this way either. Thankyou, thank you thankyou.

maniacrobbins - 28-8-2006 at 12:48

Quote:

Originally posted by trinitrotoluene
I had brougt a stump remover called BONIDE Stump-Out. I only brought it because its 40 cents cheaper then the GRANTS stump remover.I decided to test it so I used the 60/40 smoke mixture. When heated with a stove the mixture woulden't melt. Getting frestrated at that I dumped 30 match heads into it and lit it, noting happand. So just a moment ago I decided to see what will happan if added to H2SO4. I took 40ml of H2SO4 and added 10 grams of the stump remever to it. It reacted and gave off nasty HCl gas. What I can understand from that was the stump remover what some sort of a chloride. I'm not sure what chloride it is, I also tried to do a flame test on it but my results are not conclusive. I will do farther do flame test to see what chloride it is.

the Bonide kind doesnt work. Before you buy something, look up the MSDS online.

not_important - 28-8-2006 at 15:02

Good source of sodium pyrosulphite, though.

As to your question about KNO3 product names.

Drug stores should have it labeled potassium nitrate or saltpeter. First aid section, with alum and epsom salts.

Its been some time since I've seen KNO3 as fertilizer, it was labeled as such in the local language, or as saltpeter or local equivalent. The NPK rating is a giveaway, KNO3 has a rating of 13-0-45 I believe. Anything with a non-zero middle digit is either a phosphate or contains phosphates, not what you want for this. Ammonium and sodium nitrates would only have N values, can't see NaNO3 being sold as a fertilizer as the sodium would be bad for plants.

It's just in stump removers that you ran into brand names and had to read the ingredients list.

UniversalSolvent - 28-8-2006 at 19:06

I use this stuff called Hi-Yield Stump Remover. They're little white prills of KNO3 that come in cans, 1.5 pounds each for aroun $3 USD. I cross-checked it with RogueSci; per my recollection, one of the guys there ran a sample of it through a mass spectrometer, and it's 100% KNO3. Excellent source; I have about three pounds of said oxidizer in my garage right now. It works very well for black powder, too; I mixed a fairly good grade of powder using it, a bag labelled "Soil Sulfur" (90% sulfur), some relatively fresh, dry pinecone charcoal, a mortar and pestle, and the precipitation method. Worked like a dream.

Hi-Yield also sells cans of tiny 100% CuSO4 crystals, labelled "Root Killer". $5 USD for 1.5 pounds.

woelen - 28-8-2006 at 22:56

Over here, I can buy NaNO3 at 99+% purity in bags of 25 kilo, and it is called "chili salpeter". It only contains NaNO3 with intentionally an added amount of borate (only tenths of percents). This stuff is so pure that it can be applied directly in pyro-mixes. Unfortunately, it is hygroscopic. Anyway, I purchased a bag of 25 kilo, now I have enough for a lifetime.

So, the statement that NaNO3 would not be sold as fertilizer definitely is not true. Even stronger, NaNO3 can be purchased easily, but I have never seen a bag of KNO3, being sold as fertilizer, although I'm sure that it is, but not in the shops where I come.

[Edited on 29-8-06 by woelen]

NaNO3

MadHatter - 29-8-2006 at 03:54

I've bough plenty of NaNO3 and Ca(NO3)2 from garden supply shops and the shit
is cheap. Either one mixed in the right proportion with KCl, also from the garden shop,
will produce KNO3 using metathesis and fractional crystallization. If you can't
buy your KNO3, this is a sure-fire way to produce it at less than the price the drugstore
charges. It produces beautiful white shards when properly done.

KNO3

gags - 8-9-2006 at 22:57

ey guys,

do they sell stump remover in australia? i need some KNO3
thanks guys

vulture - 9-9-2006 at 04:43

Perhaps. I can tell you they do not sell idiot or illiteracy removers down under, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.

kiknet - 11-9-2006 at 17:49

Quote:

Originally posted by gags
ey guys,

do they sell stump remover in australia? i need some KNO3
thanks guys

No they don't, I'm pretty sure the only place you will get it is a dedicated fertiliser store.

jimmyboy - 11-9-2006 at 21:04

why is everyone in such a huff over potassium nitrate? can't you just oxidize ammonia gas with heated copper to make a ammonium nitrite solution then oxidize with sulfuric to get nitrous acid which will decompose into nitric - not very practical i know -- just an idea

http://www.chem.umn.edu/services/lecturedemo/info/catalysis_...

[Edited on 12-9-2006 by jimmyboy]

shadowcorp - 30-12-2006 at 14:22

Quote:

Originally posted by pots-o-potash
You can use a coffee grinder to powder the prills, but it won't grind all the peices.
A better method is to ball mill them to a fine powder, or if you only need to powder
alittle (less than 50g or best at around 30g) you could use a mortar and pestle. One
with a fine grinding surface works best. (I use a nice Coor's mortat & pestle I got
off ebay and it's smooth to the touch)
Also, it's best to use a tall mortar symilar to the dementions of a short coffee mug, about as tall as it is wide.(Coor's ones realy are great) Just crush the prills first by rocking the pestle over them in the mortar then, when there all broken up, grind with the pestle in a circular motion untill finely powdered.(you may need to scrape to get all the KNO3 out.
(I use the handle of a plastic teaspoon)
My mortar looks like this but the grinding end of the pestle is flatter(it has less of a dome shape) http://cgi.ebay.com/MORTAR-AND-PESTLE-5-DIAMETER-COORS_W0QQi...

True but there is this lovely little home appliance called the magic bullet and on of it's grinding blades that's suposed to be the one for coffee beans will actualy powder those little balls that grant's stump remover comes in the form of. As ball mills are expensive this is another good option and I think it works much better than coffee grinders. Besides it has a lot of other uses around the kitchen so it's worth the money any ways.