Sciencemadness Discussion Board - lab safety equipment

lab safety equipment

Magpie - 13-7-2017 at 20:00

I decided it was time to place a greater emphasis on safety in my lab. The upgrades I have are an eyewash station and a CO2 deluge system for my fume hood/ducting. I also have a bucket of sand and a regular ABC dry fire extinguisher. My next addition will be a fire blanket made from an army surplus wool blanket.

CO2 deluge line at fire extinguisher.jpg - 134kB

CO2 deluge line at exhaust duct.jpg - 102kB

JJay - 13-7-2017 at 20:43

I picked this up a while back. I've used this model for distilling benzene and bromine without noticing any off smells, and it does a fine job against heavy smoke, chlorine, hydrogen chloride and nitrogen oxides too. I've actually only used this particular mask once, for transferring a large amount of dusty sodium dichromate into a permanent storage container, but I definitely like having a good respirator on hand.

Praxichys - 13-7-2017 at 20:45

Very nice. I like what you've done with the hood.

I have a similar eyewash station, a dry-chemical fire extinguisher, and I keep a full size flat shovel down there in case I need to manipulate a burning object at a distance or scoop sand from the crawlspace onto it. I have a power switch that can cut the lab power from just outside the door WITHOUT disabling the hood fan (to keep the basement breathable in an emergency), and a master gas valve to shut off the natural gas line if I need to. On top of all that, the lab water supply is not the only water supply in the basement - I have an additional utility tub on the other side of the basement with a garden hose hookup for emergency washdown, etc. The floors are concrete and I wash them down with the hose from time to time, and could easily use it on myself or the bench if a situation occurred.

I also have emergency signage on to door in case I am found incapacitated on the lab floor: (Sorry for the bad pics; the focus mechanism on my camera phone is broken)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_16NzkNoL75dGgyWFlFQzR1OX...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_16NzkNoL75Sy1CaUFuUjRXOT...

Before I begin work, I slip the appropriate card into the holder on the door to give potential first responders a better clue as to what might be wrong, for their safety and for my (hopefully) speedy resuscitation.

Magpie - 14-7-2017 at 04:56

Wow. Your signage is impressive. I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.

NEMO-Chemistry - 14-7-2017 at 05:19

Not sure if they have the same thing over there magpie, but in the Uk some the smaller pubs/bars still use CO2 cylinders for the beer pumps. I got 1 for £5 full. They are around 3 foot high so hold a fair but of gas and have a valve on top, so you could have that open and one them lever valves on the pipes for flooding. Just an idea as they hold alot of CO2.

These type of ones

[Edited on 14-7-2017 by NEMO-Chemistry]

veganalchemist - 14-7-2017 at 07:24

I have a ten person first aid kit with a couple of packs of Burnshield. Two eye wash bottles. There are all mounted on a board with the green first aid cross.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Burnshield-Burn-Dressing-10cm/dp/B0...

Also an emergency light that powers on when the mains power cuts out. It's near the exit.

On the landing outside the lab. An AFFF and a carbon dioxide fire extinuisher, fire blanket, bucket of sand and some pig mat.

Also a bag of cat litter and a couple of bags of vermiculite.

Lots of pairs of safety glasses, a nice face shield (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Uvex-S8510-Bionic-Shield-Black-Matte...).

I saw a documentary where Michael Mosley visited Porton Down in the UK and he was wearing one of these face shields, and some safety specks, when they where showing him some VX. He had his face pretty close to the open fume hood and the lab tech told him to move back a bit!!!

Also a nice respirator.

veganalchemist - 14-7-2017 at 07:51

I also use propper metal storage cabinets, not wooden/chipboard kitchen units.

Also remember, don't put antything on the floor you don't want stood on (had some glassware on a tray on the floor a long time ago, never again!)

I thought about a sparkproof emergency phone.

An oxygen meter may come in helpfull.

https://www.tester.co.uk/crowcon-clip-personal-single-gas-de...

Most important safety equipment

Sulaiman - 14-7-2017 at 07:53

Elemental Phosphorus - 14-7-2017 at 12:36

What exactly does one use a disembodied brain for? It does contain a lot of water I suppose, maybe good for putting out fires?

In all seriousness, sense is an important tool in preventing and dealing with issues. My lab is not very sophisticated and mostly I work outside, but I have a dry chemical fire extinguisher, and I always keep a bucket of water and one of sand handy. I also use a blanket of ceramic fiber wool as a fire blanket (I got it for free at a local boiler building company, who I also ordered 200 pounds of castable refractory from), it is rated for 2300 degrees Fahrenheit. A respirator also comes in handy often. I have a wash-down hose as well in case I need to wash some part of me. My safety system is not as complicated or as good as the ones you all have, but I think it is sufficient for what I do.

NEMO-Chemistry - 14-7-2017 at 13:00

I also vouch for the real cheapo cat litter!! its second to none to getting up spills!! cheaper the better. A brain in a jar would be cool on the shelf

NEMO-Chemistry - 15-7-2017 at 04:55

Thinking about this thread has got me wondering. What else do people do to make labs safe?

For example I am moving mine out the house and into a barn, as we have a new bathroom fitted i did wonder if it was worth putting the old shower in. But that seems overkill. When working with strong acids etc i wear chest waders with wellies built in. these are heavy duty fishing ones and not the nylon ones.

I have tested with Nitric etc and they are resistant, I hose them down when I have fished and hang up. I have a fire blanket which was a spare from the boat we had. I have loads cheap kitty litter thats excellent for spills.

i dont have CO2 flooding for the fume hood but i might consider that.

But what about COSH sheets for the chemicals we have? where would you put them and how would you make people like the fire brigade aware of where they were?

Might sound overkill but here in the UK i think the more professional amateurs behave the better in the long run.

Solely to save money i buy solvents in quantities of 5-25 ltrs, 99.9% IPA costs me £32, while 1 lytr costs m3 £18 with shipping. 25KG of sodium Hydroxide pellets costs £33 delivered etc etc etc.

My bulk stuff is kept in cabinets out in the barn away from the house, but i think it would be good to discuss what we could do better and some the rules. I cant find much info i understand when it comes to storage etc.

Magpie - 16-7-2017 at 11:17

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.

I tested the CO2 deluge system today. I am embarrassed to say that the pressure (~1000 psi) exceeded the capability of my piping system. It popped open right at the black flare/PVC fitting junction. Therefore a revision is in order. I'm going to need a pressure regulator to drop the pressure waaay down.

AlChemicalLife - 16-7-2017 at 20:50

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.

Ooops ! xD

zed - 17-7-2017 at 18:12

Disembodied brain question? Heck everybody has interesting uses for one of those.

YOUR brain is disembodied, and you don't know what to do with it? Perhaps the Country/Western solution, appeals to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0aXi6tYU_w

tsathoggua1 - 18-7-2017 at 12:25

Well if your brain is desembodied YOU aren't going to do very much with it, unless you were born with a prehensile spinal cord, like a lemur's tail

XeonTheMGPony - 2-8-2017 at 10:32

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

I'm going to test my deluge system today with a pan of burning alcohol. I may post this experiment on YouTube.

I use Halon for my system and Purple K powder as it is designed more for fuel fires.

http://www.maxellinternational.com/?page_id=161

CO2 it is a matter of pipe size and velocity, you need an expander head inside the hood about 3 for a long hood to slow it down and expand it to a cold fog, so your feed pipe needs to handle the 1800psi working pressure.

Not impossible to do for an amateur but will be a bit of a pain for ya to source the heads.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1kg-CO2-Fire-Extingui... < But then there is that! for a 6 foot hood I'd use 2 with a one foot set back from the ends

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

[Edited on 2-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

clearly_not_atara - 2-8-2017 at 11:33

From my experience with makeshift eyewashing -- make sure it's not too cold. Really cold water hurts your eyes.

Magpie - 2-8-2017 at 13:27

The vapor pressure of liquid CO2 at room temperature is about 1000 psi.

XeonTheMGPony - 2-8-2017 at 17:42

and your at standard room temp all year round with out it ever going higher?

That's why we call it working pressure, it is a design window to account for higher ambient, there is all so a safety factor, pipes will be rated with 2 figures, working pressure and burst pressure.

For example on a R410 system the rated working pressure of the pipes used should be never less then 600psi, the average operating pressure how ever should rarely go above 400, then the rupture should be well over a 1000psi.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pvc-cpvc-pipes-pressures-d...

as you can see PVC is no where near the acceptable working pressure of 1800psi for a CO2 system! it all so fails in the required temp handling as CO2 at sea level will expand (Boil) at apx -78c

https://www.americanelements.com/boiling-point.html

This is why you need expander nozzles, 1 to slow the jet velocity at point of release, and 2 to cause it to fog (Gas with super fine dry ice snow) this creates back pressure in the supply piping system. Other wise it will blow apart the fume hood and scatter its contents better then extinguishing it!

Working pressure is what matters not vapor! for safeties sake and system reliability!

Sulaiman - 3-8-2017 at 02:40

If there is for example a solvent fire in a fume hood equipped with automatic CO₂ release,
is there not a good chance that the CO₂ would initially explode the flames and flaming solvent out of the front of the fume cupboard - where the operator stands ?

DrP - 3-8-2017 at 03:22

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

The upgrades I have are an eyewash station

I like this - I think it is very important. Personally I like to have a mirror by the sink as well so when or if you ever get anything on your face or in your eyes you can look and check when washing it off... probably not essential, but when rinsing eyes I like to have a mirror nearby for visual inspection of how red or inflamed an area might be on your face so as to help you decide if further action/help is necessary.

XeonTheMGPony - 3-8-2017 at 04:05

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

If there is for example a solvent fire in a fume hood equipped with automatic CO₂ release,
is there not a good chance that the CO₂ would initially explode the flames and flaming solvent out of the front of the fume cupboard - where the operator stands ?

With the proper low velocity expander heads it will flood the entire area in a CO2 fog (CO2 gas and fine dry ice snow) relatively gently, but hooked up the way he has it yes, odds are it will disperse the fire and "Might" put it out a little bit.

R-134a is used in gas form as a fire suppressant, that'd be the safer bet for the fume hood as will be easier to dispense at low volocity by an amateur built system and easily obtainable.

Magpie - 3-8-2017 at 08:43

Thanks very much for this information. I have a 4 foot wide hood. So how many heads will I need?

U

XeonTheMGPony - 3-8-2017 at 15:13

If not super high just one in the top center of the side would effectively flood the cabinet, would make your plumbing easier too. you where on the right track with what you where doing, just material selection needed some attention.

The low velocity high volume heads really do a good job, watch some you tube vids on them.

if it is a high up hood one on each side aiming to the middle so the jets are hitting the side of the cabinet on the other side of each other allowing the gas to lose velocity and flood the cabinet gently. but one should do.

[Edited on 3-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

DrP - 9-8-2017 at 06:55

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie

So how many heads will I need?

Not sure - but I recommend 1 mirror by the sink.

In case you get something splashed on your face and you need to visually take a look to see if it is all off or near your eye.

.... and hey! a pretty girl might knock on the lab door and you might want to quickly check yourself out before you let her in.

There are many uses for it that go beyond the remit of safety.

[Edited on 9-8-2017 by DrP]

Magpie - 9-8-2017 at 08:04

I bought a 3/4" head like you show for$56.

XeonTheMGPony - 9-8-2017 at 10:37

High volume low velocity hope fully if cheap to recharge fire it off to get a feel for it, set up plates of bicarb around it to find the ideal height to not disperse the powder.

Or like I say use the hood to deflect and diffuse the co2 stream.

Can't wait to hear of the results, I love CO2 and Halon systems.

[Edited on 9-8-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

Magpie - 13-8-2017 at 10:38

My CO2 deluge fire extinguisher for my hood has been revised to provide pressure let-down. The let down device is shown in this picture.

I tested the system with a burning mix of methyl borate and alcohol. It work well as shown here:

https://youtu.be/14EDZCsRP74

I did not use the $56 distributor nozzle as my injection point is into the 8" diameter hood duct.

If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions, please provide them.

[Edited on 13-8-2017 by Magpie]

[Edited on 13-8-2017 by Magpie]

j_sum1 - 13-8-2017 at 18:59

Looks pretty cool Magpie. How much better does it go with the sash down?

As an aside, you now have seven subscribers to your channel.
J.

Magpie - 13-8-2017 at 22:25

Thanks j_sum.

Putting the sash down somewhat would have helped I think. But with my system CO2 is also rushing out the 8" duct to outside the house, and over the sash top.

I'm not sure if the black surge bottle is needed. The main improvement is the Schrader valve at the top of the black bottle. Using steel parts vs the former CPVC helps also, which was glued at the point of failure with silicone..

I will be testing with some progressively larger fires.

Thanks for your interest in my YouTube channel (Mr Ardipithicus).

XeonTheMGPony - 14-8-2017 at 03:29

That looks great now and should serve you well!

Magpie - 26-8-2017 at 13:29

Today I installed my fire blanket, a wool army surplus green blanket.

It is held in place with a little thread that will break away when the blanket is tugged off the towel rack.

Magpie - 14-9-2017 at 14:10

Here's a video showing my fire blanket (army surplus wool):

https://youtu.be/FEt5_XrNyJk

Magpie - 14-9-2017 at 14:26

During the last test of my CO2 fire suppression system the alcohol fire was not extinguished. I attributed this to the fact that too much oxygen was coming into the hood through the open face (25" x 48"). Therefore I bought a custom Venetian blind from Home Depot and installed it. When a fire occurs this blind is immediately dropped to cut off the air flow into the hood.
Here's a video of the test of this new feature:

https://youtu.be/kkJ1CmiWMA8

Relevant but wrong video:
https://youtu.be/oVZv3B3ZGjg

I will post correct one soon.

[Edited on 14-9-2017 by Magpie]

[Edited on 14-9-2017 by Magpie]

[Edited on 14-9-2017 by Magpie]

XeonTheMGPony - 14-9-2017 at 17:32

Ya CO2 is a oxygen exclusion system, ie it works by excluding air to the fire, most automated systems will shut off the fans and close fire dampeners to ensure the room is flooded to sufficient concentration.

Halon and the newer halotron 1 series work by excluding o2 and chemically interfering with the fire to kill it thus 6% amount of total room volume will snuff out the fire.

Any gas based system should do 2 things automatically shut down the fan and close fire dampeners.

You could do this with some solenoids and a push button and a timer.

Hit the button instantly shuts off the fan and releases the dampeners, 5 second delay it fires the CO2

Magpie - 14-9-2017 at 18:10

Actually shutting down the fan on the way out the door would be easy for me.

Incidentally the Venetian blind was not damaged in the test, but the explosive force of the CO2 shocked my son and me. CO2 was just rolling out the top over the sash. I'm going to test a bigger fire tomorrow using three plates of alcohol. This should give a very hot fire.

In the fire blanket video you can see another safety upgrade. I placed all my solvent products (a few ml each) and day use solvents in the metal vented school locker. This doesn't have all the features of the commercial yelllow solvent cabinets but should go a long way in satisfying any OSHA or fire code safety inspectors.

Now I just need hazards symbols and MSDSs.

[Edited on 15-9-2017 by Magpie]

Magpie - 15-9-2017 at 04:09

In a related note the Crosby, TX chemical plant fire could no be put out with any available suppressants. The chemicals were organic peroxides which were, I presume, supplying their own oxygen due to decomposition due to heat.

XeonTheMGPony - 15-9-2017 at 07:01

There are some things that it is better to run and find cover and wait it out, then to stick around and try the impossible or tempt fate!

Prevention is all ways the best out of any of them though, don't have to deal with any thing when it doesn't happen to begin with!