Sciencemadness Discussion Board


EX3 - 9-6-2003 at 10:07

there are three types of AP that i would like to know in what conditions they begin to form
conditions like :
temprature and catlizator

6C3H6O + 4H2O2 ----> 3C6H12O4 + 2H2O + 2H2

3C3H6O + 2H2O2 ----> C9H18O6 + H2O + H2

12C3H6O + 8H2O2 ----> 3C12H24O8 + 4H2O + 4H2

vulture - 9-6-2003 at 10:39

The trimer CTAP is most favourable in a cold reaction mixture (-10 to 10C?) with HCl as a catalyst.

The dimer is most favourable at slightly higher temperature (10C-20C?) with HCl as the catalyst and is more sensitive but less powerful.

Tetrameric AP needs SnCl4 as the catalyst.

EX3 - 9-6-2003 at 11:12


bat i mode Tetrameric AP wait SnCl2
and it is work

Blind Angel - 9-6-2003 at 12:58

all the SnClx work but SnCl4 give the best yield


EX3 - 12-6-2003 at 07:09

wer i get SnCl4?

that's right folks

Ramiel - 12-6-2003 at 19:25

[edit] it's official, I'm a dumbass ;)

well, it was late, and it's so easy to misread it

[Edited on 13-6-2003 by Ramiel]

DDTea - 12-6-2003 at 20:11

Sn is not Selenium - Sn is Tin :). SnCl4 is Stannic Chloride. Surely Tin Salts wouldn't be THAT expensive!

Did you ever learn the rhyme, "It's a Sin to forget Tin!"

Mumbles - 13-6-2003 at 22:07

I don't know whats required for the reaction, anhydrous or if hydrated will do. Hydrated is realitively easy to find. Most dedicated chemistry suppliers will have it. Throughout my search, a whole 5 minutes, I didn't find a supplier of the anhydrous version. You can tell the difference because the anhydrous is a liquid and the hydrated is a crystal. If you need anhydrous, it can be prepared by reacting Tin metal with chlorine gas I believe. The result will be a clear to light-yellow liquid.

Does anybody have any information relating to the useability of the hydrated form? I'd imagine it wouldn't matter because the anhydrous would form a hydrate with the water from H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> solution.

a_bab - 14-6-2003 at 00:16

Dear Ramiel, don't want to be rude but Se is not that expensive. I have no idea where did you found such prices, but I can get 100 grams for around 30 bucks. And it's not that toxic too. It has to enter in the body by the means of a soluble salt in order to get you poisoned. Elemental Se is not that toxic.

are ratios critical?

leopard - 1-8-2003 at 06:10

Sorry to jump into this thread but since it deals with one of the peroxides I felt it was okay. I make Acetone Peroxide and HMTD occassionally and every time I find my yield varies a lot. Also my 25% H2O2 is old and has lost a lot of oxygen, as evidenced by the big hiss I get when opening the bottle, so I am not sure what the concentration is now. I decided that since the H2O2 is weaker I would just add a little extra but I'm not sure this is right to do. Mega recommends 14g Hexamine, 50ml H2O2, and 21g Citric Acid. What happens if you add an excess of H2O2? Also it seems it is possible to keep the HMTD process too cold. I mixed one at -10C and got only clear straw coloured liquid. I finally took it out of the freezer, after 8 hours, and left it at room temperature (25C). When I checked 8 hours later it had obviously foamed up all over the place and HMTD was all over the table!! Any comments?

Iv4 - 5-8-2003 at 03:18

I'm guessing that the tertamerc AP is more powerfull than the other isomers.I mean ince trimer is tronger than dimer,etc.

AP isomers

the timeless - 5-9-2003 at 01:09

The trimeric AP and the tetrameric AP are very fast to change into dimeric AP. The tetrameric is more unstable and dangerous than trimeric. The bad news is that dimeric is the most dangerous form: it can be quite inactive today and explode tomorrow when you touch it. That is why you should make it as late as possible and use it right away. Keeping it in fridge reduces the recrystallization a bit. AP is easy to make, and therefore it is a popular explo. But remember that AP is unstable and a few grams can blow your fingers off! Temperature affects the reaction and the form of AP,he catalyst has practically no influence.

sylla - 28-9-2003 at 03:36

I've done some TeAP today with Tin Chloride (don't know which one... that's not profesionnal :p I suppose it is SnCl2 because it is used in pottery).

I used 16ml Acetone, 20ml of H2O2 30% and 0.5g of the SnCl2 (or SnCl4... who knows ? :/)

I mixed acetone and H2O2 and cooled it down while adding the tin chloride (the reaction is quite violent). I stirred it for 5minutes and let it react 15H at room temp.

Amazingly the crystals where a bit acid (don't know why...) so I've washed them with water and sodium bicarbonate.

I've 3.7g of it and the crystals are quite huge :/ I will now test them :)