Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Locating Nitric acid

Rhodanide - 3-10-2017 at 08:47

So, as of this year there seems to be NO HNO3 left on the internet besides The Science Company, and industrial suppliers (excluding Sigma and other companies that only sell to registered businesses). Since I'm not willing to have literally 200 gallons of HNO3 delivered to my doorstep, I'm really looking for sources of 1-2L 65-70% HNO3. Besides The Science Company, I cant find anything else. Does anyone know of ANYWHERE on the internet or otherwise that I can get it.
Thanks.
R

JJay - 3-10-2017 at 09:56

Grainger sells it, but it is outrageously expensive.

Rhodanide - 3-10-2017 at 10:09

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Grainger sells it, but it is outrageously expensive.



I'd like to avoid pricey items, too.

Melgar - 3-10-2017 at 11:15

dudadiesel.com sells it, but it's not cheap there either. I always just got it by distilling from H2SO4 and nitrate salts, although now I can get it locally from a jewelers' supply store in NYC.

http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=nitric

It's actually not bad at all if you buy 10 liters, ($23/liter) since you're probably paying around $50 in hazmat fees no matter how much you buy at once.

[Edited on 10/3/17 by Melgar]

jamit - 3-10-2017 at 11:25

The only economical way to acquire nitric acid is to make it yourself. The hazmat fee is too high to make it worth buying.

Vosoryx - 3-10-2017 at 12:19

Quote: Originally posted by jamit  
The only economical way to acquire nitric acid is to make it yourself. The hazmat fee is too high to make it worth buying.


In my experience, this is always true. The reagents required are not as dangerous, and much easier/cheaper to ship.

Corrosive Joeseph - 3-10-2017 at 12:59

Doug's video is missing but has been uploaded by another youTuber -

"Easy Nitric Acid" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7akk5ppJjEw


/CJ

Rhodanide - 4-10-2017 at 07:17

I wish that I could make it myself, but going off me previous experience with trying (keyword: try) to distill anhydrous perchloric acid (who knew so many things are flammable), I'm sort of "iffy" with the practice. (No fancy grease, plastic clips, very limited budget, an "okay I guess" heating mantle, and having easily available nitrate salts besides Ammonium being as plentiful as the Dodo...) It's probably more worth my time buying the stuff and not wasting hours and hours of my life trying to make it, and likely failing.

[Edited on 4-10-2017 by Tetra]

Texium - 4-10-2017 at 07:22

Well it sounds like a better investment for you would be some nicer equipment. Buying a decent distillation kit and a couple kilos of potassium nitrate on eBay would probably cost less than what you'd spend on purchasing nitric acid. And you'd be able to get a lot more out of it too.

ninhydric1 - 4-10-2017 at 07:34

If you have access to ammonium nitrate, you can react it with aqueous calcium hydroxide (EDIT: formed via reacting a soluble calcium salt and an alkali hydroxide, calcium hydroxide precipitates out) to form calcium nitrate and ammonia gas. Vigorous stirring is required as calcium hydroxide isn't very soluble in water and you want to keep the ammonia out to keep the equilibrium shifted to the right. Then if you have relatively pure sulfuric acid, react the calcium nitrate with the acid stoichiometrically, and decant off the liquid, which should be relatively pure nitric. You could even distill it for higher purity.

[Edited on 10-4-2017 by ninhydric1]

Sulaiman - 4-10-2017 at 08:29

also, if you do not need anhydrous nitric acid then I suggest H2SO4 plus Ca(NO3)2

Calcium nitrate is often sold as a fertilizer,
the product Calcium Sulphate is not very soluble, so it can mostly be precipitated out by boiling the solution until you get close to the 68% azeotropic concentration,
then, on cooling, most of the calcium sulphate will drop out of solution,
leaving (if you mixed the correct proportions / stoichiometric quantities) conc. nitric acid with some calcium sulphate as an impurity, about 0.5% if my calculations are close.
(Plus whatever contaminants were in the original ingredients)

I have done similar, but not exactly this procedure, but others will hopefuly comment.

VSEPR_VOID - 4-10-2017 at 09:14

Its no longer economically feasible to purchase nitric acid for the amateur because of the limited number of suppliers, cost per ml of acid, and the hazmat shipping. I would recommend that you purchase potassium nitrate from Lows (or a simular hardware store) in the form of stump remover. An alternative to this is buying similar salts from ebay or other websites. A large amount of nitric acid can be prepared from drain opener, or sodium bisulfate, and a nitrate salt by distillation.

Are their any limitations to members of this board manufacturing and selling nitric acid? Perhaps a local pick up could be arranged for members who live in the same country/state/city? I imagine that the hazmat shipping is required by law.

Rhodanide - 4-10-2017 at 09:37

Quote: Originally posted by VSEPR_VOID  

Perhaps a local pick up could be arranged for members who live in the same country/state/city? I imagine that the hazmat shipping is required by law.


I don't think that I live near anyone with Nitric acid, nor anyone who's willing to sell any. But, who knows. I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.

VSEPR_VOID - 5-10-2017 at 13:22

Maybe what this hobby needs are community labs/better networking between members. I have been to many hacker spaces and I wonder if a similar concept would work for amateur chemistry.

JJay - 5-10-2017 at 13:57

Somewhat. I have some experience with chemistry in hackerspaces, and I had a few problems with people dirtying up and breaking my glassware. I also encountered way too many shady types who wanted to make drugs and weren't hearing what I was saying when I said no. I think it could work in the right environment, but hacker culture isn't really it.

VSEPR_VOID - 5-10-2017 at 13:59

The hacker space I went to incorporated a RFID tag system to enter the workshop. Maybe that would help clean things up

JJay - 5-10-2017 at 14:09

Maybe, but how do you know that the person in charge of administering the RFID system isn't a criminal psychopath?

VSEPR_VOID - 5-10-2017 at 14:32

Is that like a thing, perhaps, that we should be worrying about? Is that common place?

JJay - 5-10-2017 at 15:10

I don't know how common that is, but not everyone who is attracted to something called a "hacker" space is the sort of individual you want left unsupervised around your chemicals and equipment. That is the unfortunate reality of things.


VSEPR_VOID - 5-10-2017 at 16:25

Maybe it would require a special name such as Lab Space, Community Research Center, or Amateur Chemistry Lab Space

Melgar - 5-10-2017 at 19:16

The other issue I've encountered, is that there are a lot more restrictions on chemistry labs than there are on other types of labs and hackerspaces and such. Home labs can usually fly under the radar, as long as you're not bothering the neighbors with explosions or noxious gases, but zoning restrictions and code compliance can make renting space prohibitive if there's going to be chemistry projects going on there. After remembering the molten zinc sulfide and its associated scorch marks that used to be on the ceiling of my last place, I can't say I blame them...

Rhodanide - 10-10-2017 at 09:18

Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  
The other issue I've encountered, is that there are a lot more restrictions on chemistry labs than there are on other types of labs and hackerspaces and such. Home labs can usually fly under the radar, as long as you're not bothering the neighbors with explosions or noxious gases, but zoning restrictions and code compliance can make renting space prohibitive if there's going to be chemistry projects going on there. After remembering the molten zinc sulfide and its associated scorch marks that used to be on the ceiling of my last place, I can't say I blame them...


So, what'd you do to to get the "ceiling art"? I "accidentally" made some ZnS one time. I was heating up some Zinc pennies on the stove to melt them, and I think that the pot still had some leftover Sulfur from the plastic Sulfur experiment that I did earlier that day. It ended up reacting with the molten Zinc, and detonated. It was much, MUCH louder than ANYTHING I've set off before. I legitimately thought that I'd blown out my left eardrum. I really need to learn how to properly clean my stuff.

NEMO-Chemistry - 10-10-2017 at 14:00

Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.

Rhodanide - 11-10-2017 at 09:03

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.


Come on over, we've got extra beds. And Sulfuric acid. Everything you need to live comfortably!

VSEPR_VOID - 11-10-2017 at 11:35

Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.


Come on over, we've got extra beds. And Sulfuric acid. Everything you need to live comfortably!


"Moments before SM became a cult"

NEMO-Chemistry - 11-10-2017 at 14:56

Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry  
Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.


Come on over, we've got extra beds. And Sulfuric acid. Everything you need to live comfortably!

Not bothered about the bed, but Sulphuric acid sells it for me lol.

nezza - 12-10-2017 at 05:28

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry
Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.


I was under the impression that Sulphuric acid and Nitric acid of any useful concentration had already been banned in the UK and the EUSSR.

CRUSTY - 12-10-2017 at 06:34

Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  

It ended up reacting with the molten Zinc, and detonated. It was much, MUCH louder than ANYTHING I've set off before. I legitimately thought that I'd blown out my left eardrum. I really need to learn how to properly clean my stuff.


Are you sure that was the cause of the detonation (or was even a detonation)? There's an article on Springer that talks about detonation of ZnS powder mixtures, but mentions nothing of any other form of reactant. It would seem very odd to me if that were the cause of detonation, considering you were using a single coherent penny.

NEMO-Chemistry - 12-10-2017 at 10:52

Quote: Originally posted by nezza  
Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry
Wait until next year, in the UK sulphuric acid will be banned like nitric acid is. Amateur Chem in the UK is on the verge of extinction at this rate.


I was under the impression that Sulphuric acid and Nitric acid of any useful concentration had already been banned in the UK and the EUSSR.

No just Nitric acid was banned, now sulphuric is going to be added. then when they switch to throwing sodium hydroxide at people, that will also be banned.