Sciencemadness Discussion Board

rudeness on the board

chemrox - 12-2-2007 at 22:09

A couple of time I've been attacked by people on this board. I say attacked because, in one specific case, I wasn't simply advised of a mistake but called, "ignorant." I've read other threads where members were really stoning each other with harsh words. I find this kind of thing distatseful in the extreme and wish that these kinds of attacks and/or exchanges didn't happen. It's evident of a lack of maturity and/or self-esteem and I hope we can all rise above it.

Organikum - 13-2-2007 at 02:11

I suggest you provide a link to the post in question and start a poll so the members can decide if the response was inpolite or justified. ;)

Tacho - 13-2-2007 at 02:49

I sympathise with you chemrox, it would be nice if we could keep this board on a high level of politeness. However, some good (knowledge-wise) members seem to be autistic in their social behavior, while some very polite members add no true contribution to our community.

Just don't take it personally and make sure your posts are not only polite but relevant.

WWGroove - 13-2-2007 at 06:07

how many post are little relevant? Relevant to WHO? Contribution to what?

Ignorant is only a word . Mean : to Ignore. Something. So I' m ignorant. but I know it. Does not harm.

Somepeople (in the world ) are very full of themselve .Other are..............................................etc etc.

Life is a well. Or :a short bedlinen.Pull one side,get short the other one.

[Edited on 14-2-2007 by WWGroove]

Waffles - 13-2-2007 at 07:14

People are rude to you because you post without using that silly little search function, post irrelevant information, post the same question in multiple forums, and generally ask questions that everyone who has been posting here for more than a couple months is sick of hearing. To put a fine point on it.

This is like the class snitch whining that people don't want to be friends with him. The operative idea is "DUH! What do you friggin expect!?"

quicksilver - 13-2-2007 at 07:25

Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
A couple of time I've been attacked by people on this board. I say attacked because, in one specific case, I wasn't simply advised of a mistake but called, "ignorant." I've read other threads where members were really stoning each other with harsh words. I find this kind of thing distatseful in the extreme and wish that these kinds of attacks and/or exchanges didn't happen. It's evident of a lack of maturity and/or self-esteem and I hope we can all rise above it.



Putting a poll together would be a good idea if you feel strongly about it enough to write this in the first place.
I absolutely agree: what question do you mean? I am interested in reading it as i have read a hell of a lot of questions that would amount to re-hashing the same issues and actually thought this was one of the most tolerant boards I have been on. I am sure most people would greet that with an open mind.

Maya - 13-2-2007 at 07:55

In science they teach you when you have formulated a theory to ask a question which will prove or disprove it

so,......think carefully, and then ask yourself:

"What is your question?"

roamingnome - 13-2-2007 at 10:09

many times we can all answer our own questions....
through google a book or the FSE

looking for another persons expirience goes beyond drab patent talk....

YT2095 - 13-2-2007 at 10:23

I expect the "insult" (if any) was aimed towards the Laziness rather than the question itself or indeed the user Personally.

and yes I have found several replies to Me quite rude in the past also, however... there`s probably no-one here that Hasn`t experienced the same and there`s also a good many people here too and not Everyone is "Compatible", everyday life demonstrates this more than adequately, the Internet should be different because...???

brig.Sabari - 13-2-2007 at 10:35

The Poll idea is good. In fact, I'm going for one. Tonight

12AX7 - 13-2-2007 at 10:39

Ha..another observer identifying symptoms... Reminds me of things I realized when I first arrived here. Things which almost everyone *else* is in denial of...interesting, hmm?

Nicodem - 13-2-2007 at 11:53

The best moments in the life of a scientist are when you discover you are ignorant of something you should not be. It is only at such moments that you can learn what more you need to learn. Therefore I appreciate those who can make me realize my ignorance. Though I generally don't thank them if I consider them colleagues which makes it their responsibility to correct me. This is the basis of the peer review system and it is exactly due to a certain type of "politeness" that this system deteriorates more and more.
But what do I know? I'm just one of those "autistic in their social behavior" (<- isn't that a popular understanding of what a scientist is like?).

Fleaker - 13-2-2007 at 12:14

Hahahah, very well put Nicodem, as usual!

I think that a sudden realization of knowledge or epiphany is perhaps one of the most elating experiences one can have. There is no shame in accepting correction if you are wrong, however, it is shameful to not take it in stride. Besides, what is ignorance anyways? Are not all of us here in one way or another ignorant? No one is omnipotent and all-knowing (irregardless of the God-complex we might have :P)

Now Chemrox, maybe he didn't sugarcoat it, and perhaps he was a bit 'rude' (another relative term), but for him, maybe it seemed warranted and that was his version of an amiable correction. I for one would be glad if someone took the time to correct me, because that shows they actually care and don't want to keep me in ignorance; this is much along the lines of "Therefore I appreciate those who can make me realize my ignorance".


There is no shortage of intellectual people on this board, and as a consequence, no shortage of pride. Just as Nicodem mentioned though, accepting criticism is part of being a scientist. We're mostly scientists here--rational thinkers, and mostly we're searching for enlightenment and the augmentation of our own knowledge. We take and we give back in our exchanges.

However, I do think there should be certain level of ''politeness'' on this board. Let's call it patience with newcomers, but for the more senior members who ought to know better, I think they could stand more serious criticism. Just keep in mind everyone makes mistakes even if it's just occasionally: no man's above correction.

Keeping it civil elevates and honors all of us.

[Edited on 13-2-2007 by Fleaker]

chemrox - 13-2-2007 at 16:35

Well, I'm chagrined. I'll try to be more thoughtful myself and shoot from the hip a little less. Understatment is usually a lot more eloquent than nastiness, though and I'd ask we all try to keep that in mind too. The ironic thing was this was a case of my posting some new information on making a usefull (or so I thought) reagent.

This isn't right

chemrox - 13-2-2007 at 17:36

I got flamed and/or gently prodded about asking matterss I could have answered in searches of the forum or Google. Two of these were Chlorination of carboxylic acids and purification of acetic acid. I went to the old threads and searched Google. In one case, admittedly after I posted the quests for help. I did not find the old posts helpful but in both cases there were gems in the new material and I thanked one and all for those. I got flamed for using the abbrevaition "Ac" for acetic instead of Aco. In that case the flamer was wrong. But his irritation started with my own carelessness in naming a procedure I posted. The information I shared was out of a paper and to my knowledge hasn't been posted here before. I thought it might help someone.

I used to hang out at adc, many many moons ago. At one time a lot of stimulating discussions took place there. You all know what it is now. The hive was very laid back, supportive and a fun place to be. People there shared a lot of knowldge without having to uphold such cool images. Sometimes this forum feels like a graduate seminar with certain folk probing for weaknesses. I'll try to tighten my act up a bit but some of you could be a little more relaxed too.

[Edited on 14-2-2007 by chemrox]

chemoleo - 13-2-2007 at 17:39

Quote:
Ha..another observer identifying symptoms... Reminds me of things I realized when I first arrived here. Things which almost everyone *else* is in denial of...interesting, hmm?


Well well 12AX7 - I think you remain, to this day unfortunately, in denial of what many of your posts really and truly contain. Although you have improved, granted, to this day there are many one liner posts, including one 'have you noticed this' and your reply being 'no'.
I've said it before, if everyone took the liberty in posting pointless posts such as the above, the forum would be *flooded* with what essentially amounts to waste, and I ask you and everyone else to refrain from pointless-ism.
And silly little jokes may be fine in some circumstances, and very much appreciated in Whimsy, but again to this day you persist in chairing them in other forums. You are nagged less or even not at all these days simply because your overall contributions have become way more informative, and largely outweigh the pointless-isms. On this I am sure we all commend you.

Quote:
Just keep in mind everyone makes mistakes even if it's just occasionally: no man's above correction

Ignorance or mistakes are rarely criticised harshly. What *is*, and rightly so, criticised, are posters insisting on being right while being wrong, or being cocky, or obnoxious, or stupid (it happens:P) or entirely thoughtless with zero effort with regards to what they are posting. Pretty much exactly how it works in real life!
Why should it be any different online?
Food for thought :)



[Edited on 14-2-2007 by chemoleo]

BromicAcid - 13-2-2007 at 19:20

People can be rude, get over it. The only people that I usually see complaining about people being rude on the internet are those that either get no real outside social interaction or are sheltered from real social interaction with diverse groups of people outside their own clique.

:P

It's only when a topic gets drawn into a contest of wills or name calling that it annoys me then it is strictly for the sake of chemistry. By then though it is above and beyond the passing definition of 'rude'.

[Edited on 2/14/2007 by BromicAcid]

quicksilver - 14-2-2007 at 06:38

I once had a bottle of acetic acid freeze over and thought it had solidified from a causation other than temp. I was so damn embarressed even though it was through an internet discussion I went around the rest of the day thinking "Shit, why didn't I just think it through!"......I think you are being given some really good advice from a life-perspective as well as a social one. -> the little things really are bullshit until you make them more important than they are.

12AX7 - 14-2-2007 at 08:27

Quote:
Originally posted by chemoleo
Well well 12AX7 - I think you remain, to this day unfortunately, in denial of what many of your posts really and truly contain.


Not in denial, just not mentioned. I have, unfortunately, "fit in".

Tim

Sergei_Eisenstein - 14-2-2007 at 10:52

You know what I think is very very very rude? Organizing a party for somebody without inviting him :P

Everybody makes the occasional mistake and most ppl won't blame you for it. One mistake is human, two mistakes is stupid but three mistakes form a pattern. When you have developed a pattern, you need ppl to kick your rectal side. If someone cannot deal with this psychologically, he should do chemistry with his mummie or go studying psychology :D I never like to be flamed, but when it happens, I can often see where I was wrong. One noteable exception was this weird psychotic meth/benzohead that sent me pictures in pm of ppl covered in diarrhea.


Quote:
Originally posted by chemroxnitro fuel additives

I'm working on converting used vegetable oil to better and/or cheaper biodiesel ... I'm thinking of getting some nitro into the process through CN. The CN will auto-oxidize to nitro but where does the CN come from? Seems like there should be a waste stream with something or a convertible somethings.. I'm looking through as many old industrial references as I can find. To better understand CN sources.

Nicodem - 14-2-2007 at 12:02

I was wondering why do people like politeness at all? I much more prefer a sincere discussion over hypocritical politeness. I find politeness quite impolite since I'm only polite to those people I do not like or would like to keep at a certain distance. Consequently I have this prejudice, that those people who are polite to me, kind of despise me. I prefer to be sincere with people I care about.
Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
I got flamed for using the abbrevaition "Ac" for acetic instead of Aco. In that case the flamer was wrong.

I hate to be off topic, but "Aco" which should be "AcO" stands for "acetoxy" (CH3-CO-O-) and not "acetic". Likewise "Ac" stands for "acetyl" (CH3-CO-).

12AX7 - 14-2-2007 at 14:47

Politeness like politeness politicians show is a total farce, and everyone knows it. Day-to-day politeness may or may not be BS, but it is ALWAYS necessary. Humans talk to humans, not robots.

Question: "where can I get some dilute acetic acid?"

Consider the difference between the following answers:
"Supermarket. It's called 'distilled vinegar'."
"Uh, er ok... Why don't you *think* about it..."
"Dumbass!" (or "Duh", etc.)
"Use The Fucking Search Engine." (Note that there may well be nothing on the forum concerning dilute acetic acid and where to get it. In this case, this is the most wasteful, useless answer of all!)

Or, how about :
"I want to make glacial acetic acid by distilling vinegar with concentrated perchloric acid, can anyone tell me what yield to expect?" (Absurdity of pure HClO4 intended, and not only that but also jumping to the conclusion of "what yield", not even mention of "will it explode".)

With subsequent answers such as:
"ROTFLMAO"
"troll" (not necessarily true, although this particular quote is just so out there that it may very well be true.)
"BOOM!" (Perhaps the second best, as it is short, somewhat descriptive, and not insulting, at least directly.)
"What kind of a fuckhead are you!?"
"What kind of a fuckhead are you to even have concentrated HClO4, let alone put something ORGANIC into it!?" (Slightly better as it explains somewhat, but whether or not the poster is a fuckhead, the term is derogatory. Only dipshits call other people fuckheads, and vice versa.)
"Perchloric acid is HIGHLY unstable and a strong oxidizer. You shouldn't even *HAVE* the stuff to begin with, let alone mix it with acetic acid, a fuel. Finally, distilling acetic acid from a dehydrating, strong acid will result in tar and no GAA." (This one is not personal and explains the situation with needed emphasis.)

Most of all....which would YOU like to hear if YOU were asking the question? A little empathy goes a loooooooong way.

Tim

Nicodem - 15-2-2007 at 12:52

Quote:
Originally posted by 12AX7
Most of all....which would YOU like to hear if YOU were asking the question? A little empathy goes a loooooooong way.
Tim

Personally, I would like to hear the answer "Dumbass!" for the first question and "BOOM!" for the second one. I would consider them best for a pedagogical process while still appropriately polite not to offend.

YT2095 - 15-2-2007 at 13:02

1: "*think* about it..." and I`d give clues.

2: "BOOM!" says it all really, kinda forces them Into number 1 (think about it), I wouldn`t give clues for that.

brig.Sabari - 19-2-2007 at 06:19

Quote:
Originally posted by Nicodem
The best moments in the life of a scientist are when you discover you are ignorant of something you should not be. It is only at such moments that you can learn what more you need to learn.


I personally prefer when I have a feeling something is...........
and the positive anshwer roll to my feet.
Certainly happen often, to me

Happy new year ,anyway

Nixie - 19-3-2007 at 03:08

Quote:
Originally posted by chemrox
I find this kind of thing distatseful

I find your existence distasteful, yet you don't see me complaining. Oh, wait...

Pyridinium - 19-3-2007 at 16:02

These forums are pretty civil compared to elsewhere on the net, but I have occasionally seen some haughtiness toward neophytes. No, I have never felt it directed toward me, and no, I am not going to supply concrete examples. I don't think it takes a genius to see that a couple posters occasionally resort to vinegar when they could have used honey, or at least plain water.

But I'll tell you what. Rudeness applied out of all proportion is an excellent way to turn someone off from learning. I knew a woman who told me a story that goes like this: when she was little, her teacher asked students in class where their ancestors were from.

The girl's answer was "Austria-Hungary".

The teacher snapped, "there is NO SUCH COUNTRY!", pulled the girl up in front of the class to show everyone what a fool the girl was. Guess what, the stupid old bat of a teacher was wrong-- Austria-Hungary was an empire that most definitely existed, and the girl's ancestors were most definitely from that place. Pity that a schoolteacher had such a poor grasp of geography and history.

Being authoritative without a trace of humility is just a bad habit to get into.

I can't blame the forum moderators for wanting to maintain the quality of their board... so... I guess when it comes down to it, if someone flames you really badly just because you asked a newbie question, it shows more of a personality flaw on their part than a display of their supposed ├╝ber-knowledge.

If someone corrects you sternly on a board, you are free to counter with the same... of course it helps if you can show them why they're wrong.

----------
edit: fixed a typo

[Edited on 19-3-2007 by Pyridinium]