Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Fuming HNO3 distillation from drain cleaner + KNO3

Fuming HNO3 distillation from drain cleaner + KNO3

metalresearcher - 2-12-2017 at 12:38

This afternoon I made fuming nitric acid from drain cleaner (impure concentrated H2SO4) and KNO3.
The result still has a pee like color due to some dissolved NO2, but it worked fine. It took 1 1/2 hours.
The KHSO4 residue remained in the Florence flask.

Here a video with a timelapse in it.

https://www.metallab.net/jwplayer/video.php?v=Li4vd3d3Lm1ldG...

NEMO-Chemistry - 2-12-2017 at 15:02

Quote: Originally posted by metalresearcher

This afternoon I made fuming nitric acid from drain cleaner (impure concentrated H2SO4) and KNO3.
The result still has a pee like color due to some dissolved NO2, but it worked fine. It took 1 1/2 hours.
The KHSO4 residue remained in the Florence flask.

Here a video with a timelapse in it.

https://www.metallab.net/jwplayer/video.php?v=Li4vd3d3Lm1ldG...

Ok my take on this...

Before i give you my opinion, and its just an opinion. Congratulations and thank you for taking the trouble to film and share amateur chemistry.

What I didnt like about the video

MUSIC
Music and Talking at the same time
Your taste in music is not my taste in music, whenever you play music in a video you piss off 90% of the people watching.
Playing music and trying to talk over it is...........shit, please dont do this

Now take this from someone who has made a grand total of 0 videos ever...

The best videos i ever watch they always do the talk over after the video edit, it makes it much easier for you and us, talking with a mask on and music playing is SHIT.

If you can add a sound track you can add talking.

Closed systems
You plugged the end of the system with cotton wool, i except you explained it wasnt air tight, but this is not a good idea. I also spotted you had a glass stopper that should have given way if needed, thats a tiny plus point.

Lead the fumes from the setup to wash bottle to neutralize any fumes, this saves fumes in the cupboard and a closed system.

The explanation wasnt great, but again this is easier if you add a voice over.

What I did like.................

You gave it go and filmed it!!! I have tried and failed to even manage taking pics while in my lab. So while overall it isnt going to be a you tube all time hit, the fact you took the trouble is deeply appreciated.

I hope you do more, i hope you take some of the comments on board.

Overall, well done

What temp was the reaction at?

JJay - 2-12-2017 at 17:09

I am planning on doing the same thing in the next few days, although I'll probably just aim for azeotropic nitric acid. I think the music is all right.

Reboot - 2-12-2017 at 19:33

Nicely done. Residual brown color from nitrogen oxides in high concentration nitric acid isn't unusual and no problem for reactions.

If you hook up the condenser so the water supply enters through the lower port you'll fill up the jacket, which might give better cooling and less risk of thermal stresses to the glass.

This one isn't too bad, but when doing very energetic distillations and refluxes you'll also get better containment of the vapors if the cold water is flowing towards the heat source in the condenser. (Counterflow heat exchange.)

NEMO-Chemistry - 2-12-2017 at 19:44

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

I am planning on doing the same thing in the next few days, although I'll probably just aim for azeotropic nitric acid. I think the music is all right.

Its just personal taste. I dont like music in non music videos.

I wasnt trying to be negative, i wanted to give my perspective. But i do agree he did well, and as i stated.....I havnt even done one!

We could all say it was perfect, but what use would that be?

VSEPR_VOID - 3-12-2017 at 00:59

Will you follow up and convert it to white fuming nitric acid by oxidation using dried air?

metalresearcher - 3-12-2017 at 01:16

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

Its just personal taste. I dont like music in non music videos.

I wasnt trying to be negative, i wanted to give my perspective.

I replaced the video by a musicless one, same link.

Many scientific YT videos have videos with talking and music, but you are right. Music during talking distracts.

I removed the music and left it only in the time lapse (where I don't talk) and then I re-uploaded the video. It is the same link (unlike on YT where you can't re-upload the video for the same link).

Such approach (only music in 'silent' sections) I see in many other YT videos.

Quote: Originally posted by Reboot

Nicely done. Residual brown color from nitrogen oxides in high concentration nitric acid isn't unusual and no problem for reactions.

If you hook up the condenser so the water supply enters through the lower port you'll fill up the jacket, which might give better cooling and less risk of thermal stresses to the glass.

This one isn't too bad, but when doing very energetic distillations and refluxes you'll also get better containment of the vapors if the cold water is flowing towards the heat source in the condenser. (Counterflow heat exchange.)

I was also thinking about that as the jacket was not completely filled. Counterflow is indeed better.
It is just a simple $20 garden center pond pump where the 'pond' is a glass jar behind the setup.

And gas washing bottles for washing the fumes can be an option as well, but there were barely escaping any fumes from the setup, the remaining NO2 just dissolved in the HNO3, hence the pee color.

[Edited on 2017-12-3 by metalresearcher]

PirateDocBrown - 3-12-2017 at 01:32

I like the music during the fast forward, and bouncy dance music is a good choice. Just not during the talking.

Cooling water should circulate bottom to top, indeed.

Attaching a bit of tube for NO2 escape would be a good idea.

I have no GoPro, but I should get some photos next time I do this, I'm low on HNO3, so I'm due.

I'll use NaNO3, not KNO3, as I can get it considerably cheaper.

I plan to distill twice this time, once for total product removal, and the second time to bring to azeotropic concentration.

[Edited on 12/3/17 by PirateDocBrown]

XeonTheMGPony - 3-12-2017 at 06:30

Quote:

MUSICMusic and Talking at the same timeYour taste in music is not my taste in music, whenever you play music in a video you piss off 90% of the people watching.Playing music and trying to talk over it is...........shit, please don't do this

Seconded, and I hate and despise the others with music in them, I skip them and don't waste my time on them.

Good on you for making a new noise free one. Sound is a very important tool, it tells you the state of boil, whether a fan is going to blow and so much more.

Instead of filling dead space with noise, elaborate on procedure or the goal of the reaction, or safety protocols, show the people your not just some kewl, or cook, as sadly now days this is what most the normies see home chem as.

[Edited on 3-12-2017 by XeonTheMGPony]

NEMO-Chemistry - 3-12-2017 at 08:37

Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony

Quote:

Plus no music can replace that sudden outburst of.......Oh FUCK, as the foam spills over and the flasj cracks etc etc.

Thx for non music version, and like i said before well done for actually having a crack at it.

PirateDocBrown - 3-12-2017 at 13:02

I disagree. I love watching ChemPlayer's reactions with the xylophone music going.

NEMO-Chemistry - 3-12-2017 at 14:52

Quote: Originally posted by PirateDocBrown

I disagree. I love watching ChemPlayer's reactions with the xylophone music going.

The point was you cant have music playing while your trying to talk. AFAIK chem player just has intro music?

JJay - 3-12-2017 at 15:28

Several Chem Player videos have music playing during reactions. This one for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxZCAYXE0_U

I think the music is probably most innocuous part of that video, actually.

But getting back to the OP's video... just do what makes you happy. The video has already inspired at least two people to make some nitric acid this weekend.

[Edited on 3-12-2017 by JJay]