Does anyone know what California thinks carbon tet is a precursor for? Care to speculate?
It gets curiouser and curiouser ...Ozone - 22-2-2007 at 18:04
My guess is that they are more worried about CCl4 destroying the ozone layer.
Besides that, maybe phosgene (which besides its obvious chemical uses is also a nefarious poison).
hmm,
O3The_Davster - 22-2-2007 at 18:11
The Children! Think of the Children!
Its california...home of hollywood and associated morons...don't look for rationality.
[Edited on 23-2-2007 by The_Davster]Ozone - 22-2-2007 at 18:32
Remember, the physical properties attributed to a given chemical *change* when crossing the state line. Thermodynamics are apparently null-and-void,
as well.
I do not like the Ca perspective (Cf is OK, though:cool.
Logic doesn't proof well there, either,
O3
Remember dihydrogen monoxide (where's that damn devils advocate emoticon?).Ozone - 22-2-2007 at 18:44
Oh, I've got it!
They believe that (an unrelated process) CCl4 is a precursor to "global warming". Hey, let's fire all of the scientists who are cautiously skeptical
of human causes, while we are at it (sarcasm).
OTOH, it seems to be pointing the divining rod toward those who believe the upcoming federal bankroll supercedes scientific integrity.
Green with bile,
O3
Sorry, *coughs* anyone else thinking of anything that we could make from CCl4 that could be nefarious or otherwise morally damaging for the children
(The Children!, that's great Davster)?
[Edited on 23-2-2007 by Ozone]Sauron - 22-2-2007 at 19:14
As long as you can obtain CS2 and produce Cl2 you are only a little work and some iron filings away from CCl4.
CHCl3 makes phosgene all by its lonesome unless you take steps to stop it.
Anyone wanna bet that CH2Cl2 doesn't do the same? Not autooxidizing like chloroform but, drip it onto warm chromic/sulfuric or fuming sulfuric and I
bet it oxidizes very nicely tyhank you.
Here they have already taken chloroform off the market under guise of drug control (it hasn't stopped any of that) and CCl4 off the market because it
was politically correct to do so for environmental reasons (bullshit!) and when I kvetched to one of my suppliers and mentioned methylene chloride her
reply was "They said maybe later."
Time to stock up.
Remember the song "They Can't Take that Away From Me"?
The lyricist was wrong.garage chemist - 22-2-2007 at 20:06
In Europe its difficult to get because its toxic (same with other "toxic" solvents, even friggin methanol requires special effort to get), in the US I
am certain that it is because of environmental regulations.
But the environmental regulations are not because of global warming, but because of ozone depletion (CCl4 kills stratospheric ozone, similar to FCKW),
and its potential for this is clearly proven and it has a very long half-life in the atmosphere. Regulating the FCKW is absolutely necessary (but NOT
for laboratory use!).
I wonder, are there some reactions in which CCl4 can not be replaced by chloroform and DCM? I have 250ml CCl4 and have not needed it a single time the
last two years. I always used chloroform or DCM for brominations and chlorinations that need a solvent.
OK, CCl4 is useful for azeotropically removing water.not_important - 22-2-2007 at 20:56
Well, there is the Appel reaction. I don't it will run with CHCl3, it produces that from CCl4, and can be run with CH2Cl2 as a solvent.
When I was young, carbon tetrachloride was common in small fire extinguishers for use in automobiles, workshops, and kitchens. It was also a common
dry cleaning agent. It disappeared from where I lived because of the indications of it being a carcinogen
Originally posted by The_Davster
The Children! Think of the Children!
Its california...home of hollywood and associated morons...don't look for rationality.
[Edited on 23-2-2007 by The_Davster]
Hey!The_Davster - 23-2-2007 at 00:58
Theres a few good ones. Like you for instance
(yeah it was worded badly the first time, I remembered you when I was away playing poker, which I just got back from, no offence meant)
Is not California the state which got the 'not a toy. Read manual before using' engraved on guns?(completly ruining the look of many, my rifle
included) See my point?It is a state in general that has no notion of personal responsibility. The hollywood type lifestyle attracts the biggest
sheeple, and a lot of morons voting is never good...
Im not saying CCl4 is good stuff, they likely read a MSDS and thought it scary and of course the gov has to be pretending to be doing something. So
onto the first list available it goes, whether it is applicable or not.
[Edited on 23-2-2007 by The_Davster]
[Edited on 23-2-2007 by The_Davster]woelen - 23-2-2007 at 01:19
Oh yes, California is really bad. In the past I ordered chemicals from www.photoformulary.com, but that is not possible anymore. They are not allowed to ship anything more dangerous than NaCl internationally, and they
also require a lot of paperwork for all other chemicals (such as a signed DEA form that you do not use it for drugs-manufacture). So I quit doing
business with this company, too much hassle. Fortunately, there still are easier ways to find what I want.
I have noticed that the regulations in California are really insane. That has nothing to do with environmental concerns or toxicity of chemicals. It
only has to do with ignorance and excessive political correctness.S.C. Wack - 23-2-2007 at 04:43
I've noticed the CA chem laws before. The regulation of sodium acetate sticks out - they don't seem worried about regulating common things. Also, "any
laboratory glassware or apparatus, any chemical reagent or solvent, or any combination thereof, where the value of the goods sold in the transaction
exceeds one hundred dollars ($100)" is regulated.
Dear lord! Hide your kitchen cabinet!
Seriously: Vinegar + Baking soda is REGULATED? That stuff is so fun! They can't do this.guy - 23-2-2007 at 15:09
Sodium acetate? seriously?!
NOOOOOO!
<img src="http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/27/schwarzenegger.views/vert.arnold.jpg">Sergei_Eisenstein - 24-2-2007 at 12:24
I recently bought a remote control for my Nikon camera, which contained an instruction manual in various languages. To me, it seems that all languages
(11 in total) state the same, except for English, which contains one extra paragraph:
Quote:
Notice for customers in the State of California
WARNING: Handling the cord on this product will expose you to lead, a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other
reproductive harm. Wash hands after handling.
For those who don't know this, compare it to a remote control...chemrox - 24-2-2007 at 22:59
Well, my own views have been summarized here in all your posts. I was hping there was something that at least remotely connected to a rational
position. I went to school there and left. The place drove me crazy. It's the kind of place where police advise you: "..if you shoot a burglar
make sure he's inside and dead before you call us." (Real quote). If you don't kill him you'll end up supporting his felonious ass for the rest of
his life. Oh and its much safer to arrest a chemist than a criminal.vulture - 25-2-2007 at 07:24
I thought CCl4 was banned in every country that signed the Montreal protocol, except for special purposes where there is no substitute. Chloroform and
the likes are much more rapidly degraded in the atmosphere because they contain hydrogens. Contrary to many other banned stuff it is a carcinogen and
toxic.
That said, I know a place which has a few liters of it.
couldn't C2Cl4 be "burned" in pure chlorine to obtain the desired CCl4
.Sauron - 26-2-2007 at 09:51
If you chlorinate tetrachloroethene you get hexachloroethane. A solid.
Not CCl4.
To obtain CCl4 you can chlorinate methane, methyl chloride, methylene chloride take your pick.
Or you can chlorinate CS2 and seperate the resulting mix of SCl2 and CSCl4 (CCl3SCl) and treat the latter with iron filings, the CS2 chlorination is
done over camphor or much better over AC with cooling in a column. In this fashion the byproduct is only SCl2 and not S2Cl2, which is hard to seperate
by distillation.
The chlorination of methane or a lower chlorinated methane is not so straightforward, it is a free radical rxn requiring catalyst and elevated
temperature. On a lab scale you might do it with UV on DCM and monitor the weight gain or density then distill out any CHCl3 (which is also useful.)
[Edited on 26-2-2007 by Sauron]franklyn - 26-2-2007 at 10:59
While on the topic, carbon double bonds are amenable to being cleaved
by ozone forming a bridge of parallel ether like and peroxy bonds. This
chlorinated ozonide should be less touchy than hydrogenated variants.
Question is would the explosive decomposition yield phosgene.
.Sauron - 26-2-2007 at 12:00
What happens with the ethylene ozonide? Does it yield formaldehyde? Because that would be the equivalent scission to what you are proposing (or
speculating about.)franklyn - 26-2-2007 at 16:20
My thinking is, like TATP turns back to acetone and ozone.
Thermdynamics of formation was not something I excelled at.
.Ozone - 26-2-2007 at 17:08
sym-tetrachloroethylene could give 2 equivalents of phosgene, but I envision the production of OCl2, etc. beforehand (and quite likely, explosion). So
on one hand, phosgene (and maybe explosion) on the other, just some formaldehyde and very likely, a comcomitant explosion. Hmm.
I dont' think I'll be trying this one any time soon.
Please, if you have not seen the original DHMO thing, look for it. It's really *quite* good.
Cheers,
O3
@franklyn
Sauron - 26-2-2007 at 17:09
Ah, the Mechanism of Satan!
Chemistry a la Al Qaeda.
Any peroxide in a storm, eh?
I just don't think so.
[Edited on 27-2-2007 by Sauron]franklyn - 27-2-2007 at 09:56
Quote:
Originally posted by Ozone
Please, if you have not seen the original DHMO thing, look for it. It's really *quite* good.
Cursed DHMO! has been known to cause severe burns and is a pollutant so ubiquitous as to have been found in glacial ice!
Holy shit, people, We have an emergency on our hands!
Thanks Franklyn, I needed a laugh today.
You would figure that in Ca, its degreasing capability would be integrated into some sort of thigh cream as a substitute for liposuction (the burning
let's you know its working); "after the skin grafts my thighs bore no resemblence to those seen before my second child--now only $19.95, etc.".
Cheers,
O3franklyn - 18-3-2007 at 13:47
Quote:
Originally posted by franklyn
While on the topic, carbon double bonds are amenable to being cleaved
by ozone forming a bridge of parallel ether like and peroxy bonds. This
chlorinated ozonide should be less touchy than hydrogenated variants.
Question is would the explosive decomposition yield phosgene.
Quote:
Originally posted by Sauron
What happens with the ethylene ozonide? Does it yield formaldehyde? Because that would be the equivalent scission to what you are proposing (or
speculating about.)
Quote:
Originally posted by Ozone
sym-tetrachloroethylene could give 2 equivalents of phosgene, but I envision the production of OCl2, etc. beforehand (and quite likely, explosion). So
on one hand, phosgene (and maybe explosion) on the other, just some formaldehyde and very likely, a comcomitant explosion. Hmm.
layer.
Besides that, maybe phosgene (which besides its obvious chemical uses is also a nefarious poison).
.
)
Dear lord! Hide your kitchen cabinet!