Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Guess the Propellant

Guess the Propellant

MineMan - 12-2-2018 at 13:50

https://www.rt.com/news/418519-russia-tests-interceptor-miss...

It looks like a copper thermite ignitor... with a overfueled hydrocarbon??

LearnedAmateur - 12-2-2018 at 14:20

Looks to be a solid propellant mixture, very dirty engines, and are preferred for anti-ballistic missiles due to their reliability, simplicity, and ease of operation. Since it’s a replacement to the 53T6, I wouldn’t think it would be a liquid or gas engine because it won’t be used for direct interception (thus not as agile as a kinetic force weapon), instead exploding near the BM to destroy or disable it. Weaponry/propulsion isn’t my strongest topic but I’d hazard a guess and say a mix of aluminium powder, nitrated organic (nitroglycerin, nitrocellulose, maybe both?), and a strong oxidiser like ammonium perchlorate.

Dornier 335A - 12-2-2018 at 15:31

The launch and smoke looks very similar to its predecessor Gazelle so I don't think they've changed the motor design much. (Here is a beautiful video of the old one by the way https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVrEYRdYYxQ, note the shock wave as the first stage disintegrates from aerodynamic forces.)

It is a solid rocket, there are simply no liquid fueled rocket motors that can accelerate a rocket at 100-200g. The similar anti-ballistic missile Sprint used double base composite propellant so ammonium perchlorate, nitrocellulose, nitroglycerin, aluminium and zirconium if wikipedia can be trusted.
My guess is that the brown smoke from the Russian missile comes from large fractions of metal oxide catalysts (it does look similar to copper thermite!). This would sacrifice specific impulse for burn speed but since the thrust must be around 10 meganewtons (more than all three space shuttle engines combined) this is probably the only way.

Bert - 12-2-2018 at 23:32

Does look like Copper (or Manganese?) oxide(s) in the exhaust.

Or Bismuth trioxide? Gives a bit of a brown color to smoke from microstars-

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 14-2-2018 at 21:28

That exhaust color is interesting, brown smoke ? at first i thought it was from the dirt of the ground.

ecos - 21-2-2018 at 08:43

I thought they play with the speed of the video.
it is super fast !
wow

dettoo456 - 10-1-2024 at 20:42

Don’t know if anyone would find it useful, especially in a 5yr old thread, but I finally found some more in-depth info relating to the Sprint or HiBEX propellant (ultra high burn rate stuff). It’s more or less the same propellant used in the Russian ABM system by the looks of it. 12” per second at 2000psi with a CMDB.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0530958.pdf

DennyDevHE77 - 10-1-2024 at 23:10

I think it uses ammonium dinitramide as an oxidizing agent. In the USSR it was industrially produced and used in solid fuel engines. But then production capacities were lost. In Russia since 2007 they have been restoring production.

MineMan - 11-1-2024 at 04:06

Quote: Originally posted by DennyDevHE77

I think it uses ammonium dinitramide as an oxidizing agent. In the USSR it was industrially produced and used in solid fuel engines. But then production capacities were lost. In Russia since 2007 they have been restoring production.

Without it doing the funny? Also that produces a colorles trail because no chlorides

DennyDevHE77 - 11-1-2024 at 05:48

I apologize. Didn't think of this obvious fact, I admit my mistake. I guess I thought of dinitramide, as it is one of the best oxidizers, but didn't look at the smoke trail contradiction at all.

EF2000 - 11-1-2024 at 06:41

Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456

Don’t know if anyone would find it useful, especially in a 5yr old thread, but I finally found some more in-depth info relating to the Sprint or HiBEX propellant (ultra high burn rate stuff). It’s more or less the same propellant used in the Russian ABM system by the looks of it. 12” per second at 2000psi with a CMDB.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/AD0530958.pdf

When burger cowboys from Pentagon say "Approved for public release, distribution unlimited", they somehow exclude 147+ million people from "public". But the Internet Archive corrects this math error: DTIC AD0530958