Sciencemadness Discussion Board - EPP 15% Sulphuric acid !

EPP 15% Sulphuric acid !

Sulaiman - 27-5-2018 at 16:34

I just noticed that the UK EPP now covers sulphuric acid >= 15%

EDIT: removed a childish rant

[Edited on 28-5-2018 by Sulaiman]

DavidJR - 27-5-2018 at 17:10

WHAT?! Jesus fucking christ. That's positively ridiculous. A lab without conc. sulphuric acid is properly crippled.

It's becoming painfully clear that we do not live in a free country any more.

Here's the relevant change to the law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/451/made. Honestly I'm surprised it hasn't had media attention considering the situation with acid attacks.

So it seems that this comes into force re acquiring sulphuric acid on the 1st of June (i.e. Friday), but for posession/use we have until 1st November. So I strongly recommend that you order some ASAP if you don't already have a sufficiently-large stock. I notice that several sellers have already stopped supplying sulphuric acid drain cleaners.

The govt have also published a laughably-infuriating "impact assessment": https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukia/2018/67/pdfs/ukia_20180067_en.pdf.

Some angry snippets from that:

[Edited on 28-5-2018 by DavidJR]

Vosoryx - 27-5-2018 at 20:43

Well, I feel truly sorry for all my British friends. I don't know what i'd do without my H2SO4, and everyone in the UK is getting screwed by this. I could kinda understand the DCM one in america (not really tbh, but at least there was a viable argument for it) but this is a bit too far...
The stupid thing is that, as with most moronic bans, it doesn't really make the item being banned impossible to get. Just pushes people to more extreme methods. (or make everyone get a precursors license...)
I wish you all the best... I fear the day when these bans catch up to Canada, which they will. I have 10 liters of drain opener (92%) for that day, in hope it never comes.
Best of luck. Stock up within the next 4 days, right?

VSEPR_VOID - 27-5-2018 at 21:53

I wonder how far this will go. Consider the following news story:"scottish man in custody for carrying potato peeler"

It seems anything of any danger is being banned. Soon I do not think it will be possible to get any potentially dangerous substance. After the mineral acids will be NaOH, then the poisons like copper sulfate, and finally they will extend it to things that can be used to make dangerous chemicals like ferricyanides.

First they came for the weapons, and I did not care because I owned no weapons. Then they came for the drugs, and I did not care because I was not a drug user. Then they came for the drug precursors, and I did not care because I produced no drugs. Then they came for the mineral acids, and I no one cared about my hobby.

Edit by Texium: removed link to Breitbart "news story"

[Edited on 5-28-2018 by Texium (zts16)]

Swinfi2 - 28-5-2018 at 03:50

Well, looks like I'll be needing a lot more copper chloride sooner than I thought. :/

Good look taking all the wires out of my house, electricity out of my walls and salt off my table... now its just waiting a game for them to ban solid sulphur. Jokes on them, I know where a sulphur mine is.

[Edited on 28-5-2018 by Swinfi2]

DavidJR - 28-5-2018 at 07:33

I guess technically oleum having >85% SO₃ is still allowed though...

Contact process at home anyone?

plastics - 28-5-2018 at 10:11

Sad but not at all surprising - given the increase in acid attacks and media coverage in the U.K. This has also eliminated any possible sympathy for the home chemist.

The near absence of coverage in the media must be some sort of 'understanding' with the authorities to minimise stockpiling.

Introduction just after a Bank Holiday weekend also seems somewhat 'convenient'

Also interesting how magnesium and aluminium powders have suddenly been added to part 3 of schedule 1A

Swinfi2 - 28-5-2018 at 11:35

I honestly find it hilarious about the aluminium powder, like seriously, does nobody in England have a ball mill?

I'm just waiting for:
"Excuse me sir your not allowed to buy that washing machine you look like a terrorist and you could re-purpose it"
"We're writing to inform you that we're disconnecting your electricity supply as we have reason to suspect you'll use it to make explosives"
"Breaking News: UK Government announced that terrorist organisations are planning to use oxygen from the air in improvised incendiary weapons so have banned any and all chemical reactions classified as 'Oxidation'."

aga - 28-5-2018 at 12:28

Bejesus !

What's next ? An Illegal quantity of water ?
A Dangerous Stirring Tool, closely resembling a plastic spoon ?
An illegally re-purposed container, originally used for Pepsi (the Coca-cola one is obviously exempt) ?

Move to a different country.

I can highly recommend anywhere at least 1000km South of your current location.

Far better weather and less Nanny State insanity.

DavidJR - 28-5-2018 at 14:16

The magnesium/Aluminium powder thing is just mandatory reporting of sales. I personally don’t have a problem with sales being reported to the govt as long as I can still actually buy what I want.

—

I have ordered a case of 12L of One Shot drain cleaner from an eBay seller.

[Edited on 28-5-2018 by DavidJR]

Dragonjack12 - 28-5-2018 at 16:32

Wow i live in amarica anx im triggered.
Im just wondering when acids are going to be baned hear. I live in northern Minnesota so things are still a bit lax hear ( Its discontinued but i can still by 2 pound containers of NaOH.) But what hapens when you can only find 5% H2SO4 and viniger will be almost 0% acetic acid but we will still have 3000 calorie burgers and malnutrished fat people. I mean what the fuck one person blows in a subway station and sulfuric acid is diluted to the point of no return in england if that happened in America it would be banned. What is wrong with people. Ok rant over sorry if i offended you but close the stop cock you call your mouth.

coppercone - 28-5-2018 at 16:38

ok so people are gonna switch to molten sugar attacks now lol maybe london gonna tackle its obesity problem next

do they think gang bangers are that retarded? people will just melt sugar in a fucking thermos

[Edited on 29-5-2018 by coppercone]

DavidJR - 28-5-2018 at 17:05

Quote: Originally posted by coppercone

ok so people are gonna switch to molten sugar attacks now lol maybe london gonna tackle its obesity problem next

do they think gang bangers are that retarded? people will just melt sugar in a fucking thermos

Well, it's done under the Explosives Precursors and Poisons regulations, as they claim it's an explosives precursor. I guess technically yes it is ... but frankly there's a lot of things you could claim are explosives precursors and be technically correct.

I'm pretty sure though that's just the excuse they're using and are actually banning it because of the media attention that acid attacks get. Ugh, politics.

But you're absolutely right. If you've decided to attack someone with acid then you're probably not gonna say "ah damnit I can't get sulphuric acid, nevermind". You're gonna use something else. Whether that be another corrosive (hydroxide based cleaners?), or just a hot liquid - there has been numerous cases of people using boiling water to attack their victims and honestly the results of that can be just as horrendous as the acid.

I'm fed up with having my rights taken away just because a tiny minority of the population do shitty things like throw acid in peoples' faces and blow up busy public transport etc.

Also, the impact assessment says that the products have limited uses - what fucking bollocks. Sulphuric acid is an incredibly versatile chemical, as evidenced by the enormous scale of its industrial production.

--

I suppose though, unlike the US, we don't have the same regulation around versatile chemicals arbitrarily declared drug precursors (again technically correct but ignorant of other uses). I can legally have red phosphorus, iodine, benzaldehyde, chloral hydrate, acetic anhydride, potassium permanganate, ... etc. And to be honest I don't think this sort of legislation is likely to appear here, because we don't have quite the same obsession with a "war on drugs" that the US does.

[Edited on 29-5-2018 by DavidJR]

unionised - 29-5-2018 at 01:38

No doubt those who were using sulphuric acid as a weapon will switch to using industrial bleach or whatever.
This solves nothing and pisses off some.
It's a typical "illusion of security" response from a government that won't tackle the root issues.

I note with interest that my bottle of drain cleaner may make me a criminal in November, but not in October.
That's an indication of how rational this law is.

NEMO-Chemistry - 1-6-2018 at 04:45

I mentioned the ban a while back in social and legal, i got alot of stick privately for it so stopped posting information. But the next two will be also be in by the end of the year......

Sodium Hydroxide over 12% and Hydrochloric acid over 5%. It would have been sooner but there has been a back lash with soap makers.

Funny thing is soap makers get laughed at (not real chemists), but they do get organized on twitter etc and organize themselves.

I expect this post will also get laughed at, fair enough but stock the two chems listed above. No idea when but just about all chemistry at home is going to be stopped without a license.

Time frame? 2-3 years

LearnedAmateur - 1-6-2018 at 06:00

Thanks for the heads up, I’m ordering myself another two litres of drain cleaner as we speak. It’s such a split and controversial topic, even my girlfriend would rather that I’m unable to buy it than see acid attacks continue. The thing is though, you ban one thing and people will ALWAYS find another way to harm others. I seriously wonder if we’ll eventually have to get petrol licenses, you know, because of all the arson attacks and its use against police in riots.

aga - 1-6-2018 at 07:54

There'll be no need for a petrol license if someone's nicked your car's battery just to get some acid.

unionised - 1-6-2018 at 09:17

Previously, I seldom bothered with using nitric acid if I could help it- sulphuric was much easier to get.
But, if the stop me simply buying sulphuric acid I can make it.
Burn sulphur, dissolve in water and oxidise the SOx to make H2SO4.
Well, if I have the kit for doing that, I can use it to oxidise ammonia.
Their "plan" to reduce the availability of explosives precursors just increased the probability of me making one of the best ones.

It's about as well thought through as the psychoactive substances act.

Vomaturge - 1-6-2018 at 12:10

Well, the EPP is looking more and more like this. Not that it will stop any crime. In the United States, I think there are less acid attacks than there are attacks setting people on fire with gasoline, even though acids are not really regulated. "Bodily arson" is probably nearly as harmful and easy-to-do to an unprepared victim as an acid attack, and British criminals will probably pick it up as corrosive compounds get banned.

I've been thinking about the implications of making restricted chemicals at home, especially ones like acetone or sulfuric acid, that are then used for other reactions. Obviously, you could get in some trouble if you get caught making something that's not legal to possess. But there are other uncertainties in the question "can I make this at home?" I have heard it argued once in a while that "these bans don't do anything; people will just make (insert chemical that is regulated but shouldn't be) at home, using (ingredients like air or urine or sea salt, that can never be banned)!" True, sometimes, but in so many cases it is difficult/expensive/impossible to make these compounds in usable quantity, purity, or concentration. Amateur chemists are probably more capable of DIY chemical production than criminals are (both due to chemical expertise and a need for smaller quantities) but it really affects both. There are reagents that can be made by an amateur very easily and in a useable state. Anhydrous ammonia and the chlorate salts are outstanding examples (I believe potassium chloride itself is regulated in some bombing-prone nations like Afghanistan, because it has been converted to chlorate so easily. I can't find the source right now, though). However, I know many people have tried to produce hard to get reagents (especially nitric acid) and had their processes fail, or only show slight production. Some basic industrial processes work flawlessly scaled down and simplified in a beaker and others seem to require an entire chemical plant to show any real success.

That being said, I wish the best of luck to the people trying to make useable amounts of nitric&sulfuric acids, acetone, etc at home. If you can succeed, it will be a gift to all! This might even be basis for some sort of competition: make some xyz, using only raw materials that are either easy to find and extract in nature (salt, cellulose) or are else used so widely, with so few alternatives, that they are unlikely to be banned (calcium sulfate, steel.) Of course, Aga did something very similar in his nitric acid challenge, and it turned out that creating nitric acid at home from scratch, without any nitrates to start with, was not an easy undertaking. But it still might be worth trying to make sulfuric acid, or oxalic acid, or acetone, or hydrogen peroxide, or (soon) sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid. Sadly, a lot of members (the ones who need to circumvent the EPP and similar regulations) could be breaking laws just by participating in such a challenge. I'm not giving a challenge here, just suggesting the idea.

[Edited on 1-6-2018 by Vomaturge]

zed - 1-6-2018 at 12:38

Acid attacks are not common in the U.S.. I suppose it must happen, but if you do something really bad in the U.S., the legal system will attempt to kill you.... Or, make you wish you were dead. We don't play. So ask yourself, before you do something terrible..... What kind of life will I have, after completing a 500 year prison sentence, in a miserable, violent, U.S. prison?

Still, Sulfuric acid is not as available as it once was. Liability concerns I suppose.

Most Chem suppliers no longer sell over-the-counter retail, and while we can purchase most things on-line; Hazmat shipping charges usually stifle the joy.

I can get a good deal on a 55 gallon drum of concentrated, high quality H2SO4, shipped "freight", from across the country, but I only need a liter or so. And, a liter or so.... is hard to acquire locally.

Vomaturge - 1-6-2018 at 13:24

Still, there are plenty of shootings, stabbings, beatings, rapes, and occasionally burnings bombings and poisonings. Blocking one specific type of violence will hardly keep violent criminals from seeking similar, but still available methods of hurting others.

In fact, the main reason for less acid attacks in the USA is likely just the wide availability of guns and knives. The acid attacks are an alternative, at least for the worst criminals, who aren't trying to fight other thugs or steal, but only want to target unsuspecting, unarmed citizens. Gasoline would likely serve these terrible people just as well. It would be easier to counteract (e.g. with a fire extinguisher) than an acid, but I imagine it also hurts the target faster (seconds as opposed to minutes), and is very easily bought without suspicion. So banning every corrosive chemical will still not stop this type of attack. Banning all flammable and toxic compounds would really mess up everyone's lifestyle, and would still leave other kinds of attacks like slashing throats, punching, and hitting people in the face with hammers and rocks. So these bans of all these chemicals are just stupid and ridiculously ineffective against terror, domestic violence, etc.

[Edited on 1-6-2018 by Vomaturge]

NEMO-Chemistry - 1-6-2018 at 14:25

Quote: Originally posted by aga

There'll be no need for a petrol license if someone's nicked your car's battery just to get some acid.

Most UK lead acid batteries are becoming sealed and gel type, some cars you cant even change the battery yourself as it resets the ecu, some also have those funny security screws.

Drain opener has shot up in price and getting hard to get, even with a registered company i am having problems. I recently ordered from fischer scientific, some the chems were for someone else on here.

Last weekend my local policeman turned up yet again!! He came straight out and asked to see my storeroom again.

At the moment fischer are refusing to send me the chems which is really odd as i spoke with the rep before ordering and he said it was all ok.

I( am aware some think i am barking mad, but for some really odd reason i certain branch of chemistry seems to be getting better treatment than other areas of home chem.

Keep an eye out on twitter, i am aware some the soap people also do 'real; chemistry and want to form a group to represent home chemists. I doubt it will get as far as the soap group, home chemists seem to like the underground and would rather not poke there heads up over the wall.

But anyone who has had enough i would encourage to join one the groups, down side is you will need to be squeaky clean. But then again go back 2-3 years and look at the difference today, do we really want to just stand by?

BTW it isnt any kind of protest group, they want to form some kind of 'body or association' to represent us as a group.

DavidJR - 1-6-2018 at 18:50

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

Most UK lead acid batteries are becoming sealed and gel type, some cars you cant even change the battery yourself as it resets the ecu, some also have those funny security screws.

You could still get the acid out of a SLAB, it'd just be a bit destructive... And with care I am sure you could change the battery on a picky car like that by carefully putting the new one in parallel with the old one, so that the power supply is never interrupted. Would have to ensure the battery voltages are equal of course, else a very large current will flow.

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

Drain opener has shot up in price and getting hard to get, even with a registered company i am having problems. I recently ordered from fischer scientific, some the chems were for someone else on here.

Last weekend my local policeman turned up yet again!! He came straight out and asked to see my storeroom again.

At the moment fischer are refusing to send me the chems which is really odd as i spoke with the rep before ordering and he said it was all ok.

I do hope I haven't caused you too much trouble!

Try eBay for drain opener. I just bought a case of 12 litres of One Shot (91% H₂SO₄) for £60.

Melgar - 1-6-2018 at 19:55

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Acid attacks are not common in the U.S.. I suppose it must happen, but if you do something really bad in the U.S., the legal system will attempt to kill you.... Or, make you wish you were dead. We don't play. So ask yourself, before you do something terrible..... What kind of life will I have, after completing a 500 year prison sentence, in a miserable, violent, U.S. prison?

The difference with the US system is that when someone gets really pissed off here, they go out and buy/steal as many guns as they can carry and shoot up a school. As long as guns are still widely available, there's no point to any of those other types of attacks. So I guess we chemists should be thankful to the NRA for at least one thing.

Sulfuric acid has been available as drain opener for virtually every ACE or TrueValue hardware store I've ever been to. Lowe's and Home Depot never carry it, probably just because they're really large companies and it's not worth selling both acid-based and alkali-based drain openers to customers. So they only sell the alkali ones, and limit their liability.

NEMO-Chemistry - 2-6-2018 at 13:20

Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

Most UK lead acid batteries are becoming sealed and gel type, some cars you cant even change the battery yourself as it resets the ecu, some also have those funny security screws.

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

I do hope I haven't caused you too much trouble!

Try eBay for drain opener. I just bought a case of 12 litres of One Shot (91% H₂SO₄) for £60.

The problem with battery acid is getting caught with it, i am legal and comply 100% but lately the amount of aggro i am getting is madness.

I know why i am getting problems and its nothing to do with me personally, probably more like guilty by association.

No you havnt caused me any problems, in fact its given me the push to grab this by the nuts and get it sorted. Everything was/is in my name, so there should be no issue.

I will get it sorted out, i have a friend who lives 25 miles away and has a lab, he dosnt get the problems i get. But there are differences between where we live, i dont think most of it is aimed directly at me i think its for other reasons local to me.

Dosnt help i found out we have a tiny military base a couple of miles up the road!! all the time i lived here and i didnt know it existed.

G-Coupled - 2-6-2018 at 17:02

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

What you think is responsible for you getting such a disproportionate amount of aggro?

NEMO-Chemistry - 3-6-2018 at 13:37

Quote: Originally posted by G-Coupled

Quote: Originally posted by NEMO-Chemistry

What you think is responsible for you getting such a disproportionate amount of aggro?

A local issue, i am now aware of the likely reason and its not aimed at me directly, but at the moment its kind of wrong place wrong time.

I dont think it will be too long before normal service is resumed.

I dont want to say more than that for now, but having seen some info online it does make me feel less like i am personally being picked on.

I am not the only person in our tiny village having a hard time getting things. Even the local gun owners (just about the entire village lol) are all getting regular visits.

Just one of those temporary things until it all gets sorted i guess.

zed - 3-6-2018 at 14:30

I just read about a young British man who threw acid in the faces of half a dozen people. He got only ten years in prison. A slap on the wrist.

In some U.S. jurisdictions, he might have received a more just sentence. Twenty five years per offense, terms to be served consecutively. Total 150 years.

He should never be released from prison.

In China, where most of my glassware comes from, I assume they would simply execute him.

Punish the criminal, not the normally law abiding public.

karlos³ - 3-6-2018 at 16:09

Banning sulfuric acid?? Even such a diluted version?
I wonder what will be bannend next time, maybe car lead batteries in a similar idiotic act.
It is long over the point for me to understand all this happening.

This acid "ban" is like a plaster for a broken leg, just treating the symptoms in the hope it will get well and is gone after a period of doing nothing, just sitting it out

Lets face it: as a fellow european I know and see what is happening now very well, I also think I understand why they needed to ban the acid, and not what they really should've banned, the real cause behind these modern acid attacks, but instead they choose doing only this indifferent symbolic act.
Seems like that just wasn't on their political agenda, probably because it is not PC.

The UK was very fine before that phenomenon has happened to them, considered that concentrated sulfuric acid is not only an essential part of the UK, no it was even fabricated industrially for the first time, already ~280 years ago!.
Famous glover acid is even named after that city.
I just don't get this overreaction now, it is simply the consequence of their own actions(=the gouvernments own actions).

It is obvious that it is neither the acid itself who is causing the attacks, nor is it the fault of the native british people, since they got along well until this unspoken new issue came to the land.
This is the one recent and important change that has happened in the UK, and since it is neither the acid nor the brits causing these attacks, what else could it be then...?
(guess in the UK implying such a thing would've already qualified as hate speech...)

It really feels like all the european people experience a massive hallucination or some sort of delirium, and those who realise what is happening around them...
Well, lets compare it with the fairy tale: if one of them, briefly woken up, points "it" out like the child who was the first to shout "the emperor is naked!"

...
Only here, instead of other people waking up slowly too, accept and hopefully adapt to the harsh reality there is... oh no!
Instead they will start to shout at the person who has dared to disturb their brain-dead slumber with saying such mean things like describing the reality, they will call him a nazi! :mad:

A horrific massive psychosis is what I call it, not a hallucination, those can be pleasant, but the actual state of europe is more of a sole downside.

Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them lawfully...

sbreheny - 4-6-2018 at 21:11

I am sorry for you guys in the UK having to deal with these silly laws. I think, though, that some people here have a fundamental misunderstanding of some of the US laws. In the US it is perfectly legal to own chemicals which are on the DEA precursor lists (aka List 1 and List 2) - the restrictions are on the sellers (recordkeeping) and for some of the more "suspicious" items there is also a quantity per time limit for purchasing. Yes, this causes a lot of places to be unwilling to sell them to hobbyists but it is still a lot better than an outright ban or a requirement to purchase a license. Also, the recent regulation regarding DCM doesn't make it illegal to own or sell. It just makes it illegal to advertise it for use as a paint stripper (or to sell a paint stripper which has a significant amount of DCM in it). Silly, but still very different than banning ownership of DCM.

As far as I know, the only chemicals which are so tightly regulated in most of the US (a few states are more draconian) are prescription drugs or scheduled drugs, explosives, and extreme poisons (like nerve agents - not cyanides, those are legal). Far more silly, though, is the fact that a handfull of US states require permits for lab glassware.

NEMO-Chemistry - 5-6-2018 at 11:36

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller

Maybe i am talking bollocks, but i cant help but feel the above is closer to the truth than we admit.

Of course these days you cant speak out, you have to apply for a license two weeks in advance and have your route approved...yes honestly

[Edited on 5-6-2018 by NEMO-Chemistry]

Herr Haber - 6-6-2018 at 04:27

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³

Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them lawfully...

The first time my mother told me about Vitriol I didnt even knew what an acid was but I do remember my mother more or less telling me it was commonplace in India / Pakistan to use it on other people to disfigure them.
I dont think she was prejudiced at all, it was just her experience.
Is it still true today ? I dont know. I just know it's a horrible thing to do to someone else.

LearnedAmateur - 6-6-2018 at 08:47

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber

Quote: Originally posted by karlos³

Now they're even taking the most basic chemicals away, because the foreign hordes that have reached the united kingdom have problems using them lawfully...

There have been around a thousand attacks here in the UK over the past few years, including one in my town a couple of months ago - not saying he deserved it but it happened because the guy went around waving a knife at people. Immigrant Muslims and other foreigners seem to be the main targets the media hone in on, but there have been some instances where it has happened for no apparent reason, such as a mass attack in a nightclub last year.

From what I’ve read in the past, these sort of attacks are somewhat common in Southeast Asia as a retaliation to adultery (a kind of ‘if you don’t want me then I’ll make sure nobody wants you’ mentality as far as I understand), but my guess is that there are a whole plethora of reasons, like with any other violent crime.

[Edited on 6-6-2018 by LearnedAmateur]

sbreheny - 6-6-2018 at 17:24

One thing I don't understand about these acid attacks is the extent of skin damage to the victims. I'm sure we have all gotten a few drops of concentrated H2SO4 on our hands accidentally once or twice. It doesn't do any damage right away - it takes a good 30 seconds to even get started causing damage to intact skin. I have also gotten a few drops of 70% HNO3 on my hand once accidentally. That began to hurt a bit after only about 5 seconds and it did damage the very upper layer of my skin before I noticed the pain and rinsed it off. So, I understand how nitric acid could be used for these attacks and cause the kind of damage that I've seen pictures of, but sulfuric is harder for me to believe. If you threw sulfuric acid on someone's face, I could certainly see it causing eye damage almost right away, maybe some damage to lips, but the forehead and cheeks should not be damaged significantly in less than 1 minute or maybe even 3 minutes or so, which I would think would be enough time to run into a nearby shop and ask for water to rinse it off.

kulep - 6-6-2018 at 17:36

more than 30 seconds of exposure to 98% sulfuric in your face would definitely cause some serious damage, even more if it's hot aswell

j_sum1 - 6-6-2018 at 18:30

Added to that. Skin on face, eyes and mucous membranes is a lot more sensitive than hands (which are remarkably tough). It is easier to cause damage to these sensitive areas.
Rinsing off quickly (within 30s) is something easy to do in a lab. But not so easy in the street or on the subway.

DavidJR - 7-6-2018 at 13:26

Also, a couple of drops on the hand is a lot easier to clean off quickly than a whole face full...

Anyway - the unfortunate situation is that there are some really shitty people who'd do that sort of thing. And because of that, amateur chemistry suffers.

Corrosive Joeseph - 22-7-2018 at 15:32

Here is more of it...........

"Worcester 'acid attack': Boy aged three injured" - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-449...

/CJ

[Edited on 23-7-2018 by Corrosive Joeseph]

VSEPR_VOID - 22-7-2018 at 18:41

If acid is banned another substitute will be found: Boiling oil, chlorine, lye, gasoline

[Edited on 23-7-2018 by VSEPR_VOID]

symboom - 23-7-2018 at 09:59

The gelled acid might not be a bad idea if it can be used for all sulfuric acod experiments where silicon dioxide is no a problem in the reaction.

Soapbox
maybe in the uk people will be carrying baking soda water as nutrilizing agent and weponized citizens might solve the problem the if every one had a gun theory.
And probally mental health screening like the US is doing.

But of course goverment has to protect us from ourselves
Because they know best. :/ because the citizens are like children. Thats my thought on the thinking of the policy
Im sorry UK i did not know you guy have it so hard.
Maybe the movie V for vendetta as the country acts like a nanny/police state might come a reality for UK.
Also the amazon sifi series electric dreams showed something simular.

A Trade your freedom and privacy for ultimate safety

[Edited on 23-7-2018 by symboom]

MJ101 - 24-7-2018 at 07:28

What you may end up seeing is what the USA does: Taxation by licensing.

Only licensed plumbers will be able to get a license to purchase and carry sulfuric acid. It's no different with Exterminators.
You need to have a valid license to buy the chemicals you need.

Same with firearm permits. It costs a small fortune to get a range permit. And forget about a concealed carry permit.
You have to prove that you're carrying a lot of money or precious gems daily to justify it.

And if you do something wrong, you'll end up in jail. (The Sullivan Act.)

Amateur chemistry may end up going the way of HAM radio: HAM operators need to have licenses to operate amateur transmitters.
Not to mention that you might be forced to carry special insurance, because the things you work with can be misused, and possibly
discarded incorrectly.

Just like amateur chemists, Firearms enthusiasts know all about safety. And they practice it to the utmost.
One mistake can cost someone their life, as I'm sure you all know.

Criminals can get guns. Terrorists can get chemical weapon precursors.

The information for synthesis is everywhere.

e.g. TABUN : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabun_(nerve_agent)

Now I neither know if it's correct, nor do I care. I'd rather bake scones or extract cannabis from pot than be bothered with that shit.

But it's there. Staring everyone right in the face. Along with a bunch of other deadly chemical weapons.
And some skilled organic chemist with an axe to grind may show some lunatic the correct synthesis.

This isn't political. This is about a lot of people being scared out of their wits because of the actions of the insane.
And the government steps in and passes ridiculous laws just to give some peace of mind to the masses.

Herr Haber - 24-7-2018 at 08:07

Quote: Originally posted by MJ101

This isn't political. This is about a lot of people being scared out of their wits because of the actions of the insane.
And the government steps in and passes ridiculous laws just to give some peace of mind to the masses.

To be scared out of your wits you'd have to have some first.
Wits lost since the ban of liquids in Airplanes.

All this to protect us from terrorists that did not have a plan nor a target....

Sulaiman - 9-11-2018 at 09:33

Today I had my first visit to a hardware shop for many months,
to my surprise there are choices for sodium hydroxide drain cleaner
and
96% sulphuric acid drain unblocker

fusso - 9-11-2018 at 16:07

Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman

Today I had my first visit to a hardware shop for many months,
to my surprise there are choices for sodium hydroxide drain cleaner
and
96% sulphuric acid drain unblocker

I remember you're in UK?

Sulaiman - 10-11-2018 at 01:47

Yes, I'm in UK and the EPP ban on >15% sulphuric acid possession came into force on 1 November
with importing or distribution banned since 1 July this year.

The shop was busy so I did not chat with the owner
on previous occasions he told me that there are bulletins for distributors,
he had been made aware of the sulphuric acid ban months ago,
I guess that as a businessman,
if his wholesaler supplies it and customers buy it then there is no problem.

nezza - 10-11-2018 at 14:23

The stupidest thing about this is that concentrated caustic alkalis (still freely available) are almost as nasty as sulphuric acid but our government of scientifically illiterate idiots are too stupid to do anything about their sale (yet). We are living in a cowardly authoritarian idiocracy and don't even ask me WHY this situation has arrived.

Rant over.

fusso - 10-11-2018 at 14:55

Quote: Originally posted by nezza

The stupidest thing about this is that concentrated caustic alkalis (still freely available) are almost as nasty as sulphuric acid but our government of scientifically illiterate idiots are too stupid to do anything about their sale (yet). We are living in a cowardly authoritarian idiocracy and don't even ask me WHY this situation has arrived.

Rant over.

Both shouldn't be banned just because they can be used in attacks. Banning them do more harms than good.