Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Unnecessary enmity

Unnecessary enmity

chemrox - 22-4-2007 at 17:38

People feel deeply about various things. I feel deeply about my freedom to choose ... pretty much everything including religion, drugs, guns, sex, taxes, abortion, motorcycle helmuts, seat belts, you name it I want freedom to choose it.

Other people feel society has a legitimate interest in controlling some things. The debate about these positions can become passionate as we've recently seen. I don't believe Chemoleo was trying to encourage acrimony but that's where the recent discussion about the shooting in the eastern US went.

I think what happens is we realize we're not changing the minds of others who should change their minds and positions based upon our very reasonable and irrefutable arguments. Further, that all arguments counter to ours are based on falacy, lack of (good) data and/or propoganda. The inevitable result is a high level of frustration. The frustration, too often, becomes acrimonious as we lose control and cool.

The degeneracy to name calling happens too often on this board anyway. It's really the only darkness that ever arises here and for the most part, since no real harm is intended, I look at it in a 'live and let live,' spirit. I was hurt the first few times I experienced it but I reflected on my own lack of courtesy that provoked these incidents. E.g., haste and carelessness in posting, failure to do proper searches before asking questions. (I'm still having this problem with references sometimes but I'm working on it.)

I don't believe this post is an example of that and if you do, have at me. I'm writing this to appeal to all of us not to get involved here in trying to make converts particularly in areas not concerned with chemistry. If you think society has the right to restrict women's access to abortion, my access to any drugs or firearms, do us both a favor and don't tell me. You won't change my mind and I don't want to try and change yours.

On the other hand, if I explain a mechanism incorrectly or use a term in the wrong way or, god forbid, make a stoichiometric blunder; tell me please. If you have to call me stupid or ignorant to make the point, go ahead, I just might deserve it.

I think the board will serve us best if we keep our discussions here to chemistry and related matters. Thank you for hearing me out.

crx

DrP - 23-4-2007 at 02:01

Just to play advocate here...

I think it's a shame we can't discuss issues other than chemistry here in the whimsy section. I think it is great that we can discuss politics, social issues etc.. with like our peers that are also into science. Polverone suggested other site which are dedicated to such topics, but there will be crawling with all types of people. Here we have a comunity of scientists who can debate on the same level - I think that is an excellent oppertunity to discuss all issues with peers. If someone resorts to name calling then thay are just showing their own weakness and idiocy - if someone leaves the forum because they have been insulted or called a name then I think they have a problem also - it's called insecurity and naivity and they need to grow up as well in my book. PEOPLE DISAGREE ALL THE TIME! SO WHAT!

If you don't like they way someone is going on about a subject then just ignore them! You really don't have to do anything you don't want to do. It's a shame that because a few people can't handle the fact that their polotics arn't the same as someone else's we all now are being told we cant talk about anything at all apart from chemistry. I love science - thats why I come here - I also like to here what other scientists think of other things.

Heated disscussion about important issues is healthy. You will always have the idiots who can't deal with difference of opinion and resort to name calling - they will have to learn to agree to disagree.

EMNITY not ENMITY chemrox pls edit title!

Sauron - 23-4-2007 at 02:21

Polverone is right. This is a chemistry forum first, an amateur science forum second and a politics& religion forum not at all. Steer clear of such,,,or take the consequences.

The Legal & Social Issues subforum is for such issues pertaining to amateur chemistry etc. It has nothing to do with gun control, foreign policy, Iraq, religion, school shootings, nuclear winter, or crop circles. Anyone who wants to go bay at the moon about such things including myself can find many other places to do so. If you want a forum for scientists to debate "important issues" whatever that means to you, START YOUR OWN FORUM. I'm sure Polverone will let you invite anyone who wants to go join your wolf pack.

Meanwhile, Polverone's word is law around here and don't forget it. This isn't a democracy. It's a benign dictatorship.

[Edited on 23-4-2007 by Sauron]

DrP - 23-4-2007 at 02:59

Wholeheartedly agreed! was just voicing my final opinion on it. I can toe the line and follow the rules - and I can think whatever I like about it. It's a shame that a minority of fools (getting offensive with each other) have ruined it for the rest of us.

Regards.

[Edited on by DrP]

Levi - 23-4-2007 at 03:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Sauron
Polverone is right. This is a chemistry forum first, an amateur science forum second and a politics& religion forum not at all. Steer clear of such,,,or take the consequences.

The Legal & Social Issues subforum is for such issues pertaining to amateur chemistry etc. It has nothing to do with gun control, foreign policy, Iraq, religion, school shootings, nuclear winter, or crop circles. Anyone who wants to go bay at the moon about such things including myself can find many other places to do so. If you want a forum for scientists to debate "important issues" whatever that means to you, START YOUR OWN FORUM. I'm sure Polverone will let you invite anyone who wants to go join your wolf pack.

Meanwhile, Polverone's word is law around here and don't forget it. This isn't a democracy. It's a benign dictatorship.

[Edited on 23-4-2007 by Sauron]

I disagree with just about everything you said, but if someone does want to start a new forum with an emphasis on whimsy for chemists I'd love to join it. It isn't my forum, but if I were Polverone, I'd encourage any discussion the members felt like engaging in provided they refrain from rudeness. Like DrP said: "I think it's a shame we can't discuss issues other than chemistry here in the whimsy section. I think it is great that we can discuss politics, social issues etc.. with like our peers that are also into science."

Organikum - 23-4-2007 at 03:19

Yawn.

Sauron - 23-4-2007 at 05:14

I'll see that yawn and raise you ten z's

ZZZZZZZZZZ

Polverone - 23-4-2007 at 08:50

If I had unlimited time to supervise the forum, I'd allow broader discussion. But I have very limited time, and too much of that time has been occupied dealing with problems that arose because people couldn't discuss touchy subjects without losing their cool.

vulture - 23-4-2007 at 13:43

Maybe part of the problem is that I'm becoming soft? Few years ago I would have just deleted this thread because most, if not all, posters seemed to be postwhoring...cough...<-- HINT, WINK

[Edited on 23-4-2007 by vulture]

Eclectic - 23-4-2007 at 14:31

I'm glad you're restricting politics to the appropriate forums. I was beginning to suspect you were under the influence of those foul purveyors of sedition with their vapors and bellows...

The Air Loom

Magpie - 23-4-2007 at 14:50

I want one of those. What is the composition of the vapors used? Are they something the home chemist could make using OTC materials?

chemoleo - 23-4-2007 at 15:05

Looks like you can!

Quote:

It was surrounded by barrels that fed noxious gases through oiled leather pipes into the main body of the machine. The gases were derived from substances including 'gas from the horse's anus', 'seminal fluid', 'putrid human breath' and 'effluvia of dogs'.

The Air Loom used recent developments in gas chemistry and the little known effects of magnetism or mesmerism to create magnetically charged air currents that could be directed toward its victims.

Magpie - 23-4-2007 at 15:08

Egad!

Maybe that's why I feel so crappy after I come back from Starbucks. I would likely use mine to seduce beautiful babes.

Rosco Bodine - 24-4-2007 at 13:19

chemoleo is the local tribal head shrinker

So .....do you think maybe a bit of PTSD is
taking a toll on the usual collegiate forum atmosphere ,
after the horror of last weeks campus murders ?

Some sort of major karma change seems to have
shaken this whole forum .....and I think that's it .
It's like an evil wind blew past , and we are
trying to air out the place .

But I could be wrong . I am still trying to figure it out .

Sauron - 24-4-2007 at 14:06

Maybe that's how it feels and looks from where you are.

I can assure you that from here, it was pretty much a nonevent.

The difference is mainly media hype I think.

dedalus - 24-4-2007 at 14:18

Is it really going to hurt anybody, internet name calling?

Lots of times, I've gotten in stupid "flame wars" with somebody on the web and wound up being friends with them.

Polverone - 24-4-2007 at 14:39

Not everybody is so thick-skinned. There are many chemists, amateur and otherwise, who are not hardened flame-warriors and who do not enjoy that component of participating in online discussion forums. Since we've had trouble with flammable discussion topics, and most of those topics are not directly related to the primary focus of this site, we're trying a moratorium on that sort of argumentation.

12AX7 - 24-4-2007 at 14:52

I'll see your thread of gun control rhetoric and raise you a liter of diethyl ether.

Tim

Sauron - 24-4-2007 at 15:20

Raise you a liter of triethylaluminum and call.

Polverone - 25-4-2007 at 08:51

Good grief, not again! Removed everything following the catalytic post.

[Edited on 4-25-2007 by Polverone]