Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Why some languages write compounds' names with anions first?

fusso - 6-10-2018 at 06:26

Say CO2:
Chinese:
二(di)氧(oxygen)化(-ide)碳(carbon)
Japanese:
二(di)酸(oxygen)化(-ide)炭素(carbon)
What's the pros & cons of putting anions or cations first?

Ubya - 6-10-2018 at 08:02

i think that it mostly depends on the grammar of that language, for example in italian adjectives are put after the subject in a sentence, blue car -> macchina blu (car blue). so if we think of anions as adjectives (genitive case) of cations, there you go

DraconicAcid - 6-10-2018 at 09:21

In French as well- le chlorure de sodium, etc. There's no pros or cons either way- it just has to be consistent within a language.

Metacelsus - 6-10-2018 at 09:32

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
In French as well- le chlorure de sodium, etc. There's no pros or cons either way- it just has to be consistent within a language.


Of course, English has both "sodium bicarbonate" and "bicarbonate of soda."

fusso - 6-10-2018 at 10:02

Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
In French as well- le chlorure de sodium, etc. There's no pros or cons either way- it just has to be consistent within a language.


Of course, English has both "sodium bicarbonate" and "bicarbonate of soda."
But sodium bicarbonate is the standard/IUPAC form and I'm considering about the standard forms in various languages.

DraconicAcid - 6-10-2018 at 10:21

Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
In French as well- le chlorure de sodium, etc. There's no pros or cons either way- it just has to be consistent within a language.


Of course, English has both "sodium bicarbonate" and "bicarbonate of soda."


Yes, in really old texts, you'll find a lot of the reversed sort..."yellow prussiate of soda" comes to mind.

happyfooddance - 6-10-2018 at 11:39

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  

Of course, English has both "sodium bicarbonate" and "bicarbonate of soda."
But sodium bicarbonate is the standard/IUPAC form and I'm considering about the standard forms in various languages.


Sodium bicarbonate is an accepted name but the IUPAC preferred name is sodium hydrogen carbonate.

fusso - 6-10-2018 at 12:04

Quote: Originally posted by happyfooddance  
Quote: Originally posted by fusso  
Quote: Originally posted by Metacelsus  

Of course, English has both "sodium bicarbonate" and "bicarbonate of soda."
But sodium bicarbonate is the standard/IUPAC form and I'm considering about the standard forms in various languages.


Sodium bicarbonate is an accepted name but the IUPAC preferred name is sodium hydrogen carbonate.
oops

mayko - 6-10-2018 at 12:40

Word order is a surprisingly deep topic in linguistics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_order

fusso - 7-10-2018 at 04:51

Quote: Originally posted by mayko  
Word order is a surprisingly deep topic in linguistics:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_order
But both anions & cations are nouns right? I can't see how one being adjective of another.

[Edited on 07/10/18 by fusso]

Gearhead_Shem_Tov - 7-10-2018 at 21:44

Quote: Originally posted by fusso  

But both anions & cations are nouns right? I can't see how one being adjective of another.

[Edited on 07/10/18 by fusso]


English has quite a bit of flexibility when it comes to what words may function as adjectives. Think of phrases such as "dog leash" or "corn flour". Both are instances of a noun being directly used as an adjective to modify the following word(s). "Leash dog" is also valid, as would "flour corn", but they don't mean the same thing as the previous word orders do.

"Flour of corn" does indeed mean pretty much the same thing of as "corn flour", as does "leash of dog" (though the latter sounds quite unnatural and could be interpreted as a leash MADE from a dog).

AJKOER - 11-10-2018 at 13:46

One can make an argument that if there was a problem with communications, from say, a solar flare, one may want to know primarily whether one had created a nitrate or nitrite or azide or cyanide before knowing it was a sodium or potassium or ammonium compound.

Herr Haber - 12-10-2018 at 03:02

I remember decades ago finding a very old chemistry book (1900).

Many formulas were written "in reverse"

NO3H instead of HNO3 for example.