GodOfChaos
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fluorescent materials
Hi,
Are there any household or simple to find materials that glow under x-rays?
I have a strong x-ray source and until my intensifier cassette arrives, I would like to do some crude xray photography.
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Ozone
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Probably not. You'd need a scintillation material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillator
BGO is a good one that's less sensitive to mechanical shock and moisture than NaI(Tl).
There are liquid organic scintillators (Usually POP-POPOP via toluene in excited-state) and plastics, but the sensitivity isn't very good for higher
energy x-rays and gammas (density is too low).
There is always sensitized ZnS (the oldest one), but the efficiency is low in general, and better for higher energy particles like alpha/beta.
Still, this would be for imaging (tau is relatively short), not photography. For photography, no fluor is required...simply put the object between the
source (I'm assuming some sort of collimated electron tube) and some black and white film that is sealed from light, and irradiate. Develop the film
to see what you got. It will take some work to determine the optimum accelerating voltage, time and distance (both between the source--sample) to
reliably get the best results.
Look out for back-scatter, and try and run the thing with some kind of shielding and/or via remote control. A counter/scaler with a proper LEG (low
energy gamma/x-ray) scintillation probe (or failing that, some kind of personal monitor) to monitor your area would probably be a good idea as well.
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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neptunium
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Quote: Originally posted by GodOfChaos  |
I have a strong x-ray source and until my intensifier cassette arrives, I would like to do some crude xray photography. |
how strong ? because we are talking seriously strong to even show up on the intensifier ! you must have an Xray tube .
what voltage do you run it ?
this is a small tube at 40Kv it already heat up quite a bit with a 1mA current and pushes out well over 4000 Rad/h a foot away..
nothing to be joking about.
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | | Quote: Originally posted by GodOfChaos |
I have a strong x-ray source and until my intensifier cassette arrives, I would like to do some crude xray photography. |
how strong ? because we are talking seriously strong to even show up on the intensifier ! you must have an Xray tube .
what voltage do you run it ?
this is a small tube at 40Kv it already heat up quite a bit with a 1mA current and pushes out well over 4000 Rad/h a foot away..
nothing to be joking about. |
90kV at 3mA c.e.i opx90-2 xray tube most of the time i use arround 50kV and 500uA
[Edited on 26-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ozone | Probably not. You'd need a scintillation material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scintillator
BGO is a good one that's less sensitive to mechanical shock and moisture than NaI(Tl).
There are liquid organic scintillators (Usually POP-POPOP via toluene in excited-state) and plastics, but the sensitivity isn't very good for higher
energy x-rays and gammas (density is too low).
There is always sensitized ZnS (the oldest one), but the efficiency is low in general, and better for higher energy particles like alpha/beta.
Still, this would be for imaging (tau is relatively short), not photography. For photography, no fluor is required...simply put the object between the
source (I'm assuming some sort of collimated electron tube) and some black and white film that is sealed from light, and irradiate. Develop the film
to see what you got. It will take some work to determine the optimum accelerating voltage, time and distance (both between the source--sample) to
reliably get the best results.
Look out for back-scatter, and try and run the thing with some kind of shielding and/or via remote control. A counter/scaler with a proper LEG (low
energy gamma/x-ray) scintillation probe (or failing that, some kind of personal monitor) to monitor your area would probably be a good idea as well.
O3
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I have a geiger caunter and I use a lot of lead shielding... everything is done in a lead lined box. I've heard some people use glow in the dark
stickers but I had no success...
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GodOfChaos
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good point, neptunium, I meant xray imaging.
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neptunium
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90Kv is pretty impressive! Is it a home built power source or ebay Glassman Spellman type of supply?
Even at 500μA you still getting a healthy dose!!
With a higher voltage you should be able to go through denser material ...
I think a chest X Ray runs at 180Kv for a fraction of a second .
Did you finally received the intensifier cassetes ?
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neptunium
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This is the X Ray spectrum of my tube at 40Of
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | 90Kv is pretty impressive! Is it a home built power source or ebay Glassman Spellman type of supply?
Even at 500μA you still getting a healthy dose!!
With a higher voltage you should be able to go through denser material ...
I think a chest X Ray runs at 180Kv for a fraction of a second .
Did you finally received the intensifier cassetes ?
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I've built the power supply myself with 2flybacks and a multiplier. Most of the time i use arround 40-50kV. I live in Lithuania and the cassettes are
from US, so it takes a bit of time... I remember when I had an chest xray, they used 300kV. Sadly I cannot mesure the spectrum of mine... 
Geiger caunter picks up 4-7x the background at most few meters away, still I don't play with the thing too much without any reason... I made few ccd
irradiation pics and penetration tests...
[Edited on 26-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
[Edited on 26-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
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neptunium
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Yeah the ccd will get you nowhere by itself. To avoid that over pixellisation I set mine next to a lead wall looking at a mirror . good luck with your
set up and post some results !
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neptunium
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Here is a PlayStation 2 controller....
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | | Yeah the ccd will get you nowhere by itself. To avoid that over pixellisation I set mine next to a lead wall looking at a mirror . good luck with your
set up and post some results ! |
Very lovely photo. If I may, what tube do you use? (model, manufacturer)
I'm thinking of trying to do few photos on B&W film, if I can get some ( I have no skill in developing films...) I'll post the results here.
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GodOfChaos
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Update
I bougt some polaroid films and tried to use them to make xray radiographs, first allmost successful picture. This is an xray of a lighter. More work
needed to perfect my technique. I had trouble developing these films without an actual polaroid camera... You can still make out some details, the
piezo igniter springs and the general shape...
Exposed for arround 30s at 50kV 1mA.
Any advice?
[Edited on 30-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
[Edited on 30-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
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GodOfChaos
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success
First successful poto. 50kV 1mA, 1min exposure
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neptunium
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Very nice ! And clean too....congratulations!!
I've used a small dentistry tube rated for 80Kv found on ebay some years ago..
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | Very nice ! And clean too....congratulations!!
I've used a small dentistry tube rated for 80Kv found on ebay some years ago.. |
Thanks, with a Be window, I presume? succeded with developing the film using a cold laminator. The original has better details, but still, I'm very
pleased. 
Also destroyed 12films while learning lol
[Edited on 31-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
[Edited on 31-10-2015 by GodOfChaos]
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neptunium
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Hey don't feel bad that s what it's all about ! Home science is not cheap!!!
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GodOfChaos
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I don't! Thinking of what to xray next
-GOC-
mastering Rachmaninoff's concerto 3... almost done...
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neptunium
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how about a PC mouse?
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neptunium
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or a TV remote?
a smoke detector?
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GodOfChaos
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Very nice! I'll xray a phone charger tomorrow
-GOC-
mastering Rachmaninoff's concerto 3... almost done...
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GodOfChaos
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DDR3 RAM 50kV 1mA 45s exposure.
Probably needed 1min or 1.5min of exposure for more visable detail. In real life I can see all the little traces. The photo is too dark for my
camera... Well, I tried... Proper intensifier screen is needed. (Still on the Fujifilm Instax mini films...)
Perhaps ZnS synthesis and doping with Ag?
[Edited on 2-11-2015 by GodOfChaos]
-GOC-
mastering Rachmaninoff's concerto 3... almost done...
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neptunium
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so these are pictures of the picture you took?
I thought you said you had a CCD camera?
you could hook it up facing a mirror that reflect the intensifier...
with a computer reading the CCD camera you`ll get much better and easier to transfer results!
thats what i did!
this is a microwave detector
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GodOfChaos
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | so these are pictures of the picture you took?
I thought you said you had a CCD camera?
you could hook it up facing a mirror that reflect the intensifier...
with a computer reading the CCD camera you`ll get much better and easier to transfer results!
thats what i did!
this is a microwave detector
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You misinunderstood, my intensifier screens haven't arrived yet.
In the meantime, I used instant film to make few photos without any intensifier, hence the long exposure times...
-GOC-
mastering Rachmaninoff's concerto 3... almost done...
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