Jstuyfzand
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Registered: 16-1-2016
Location: Netherlands
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Mood: Learning, Sorta.
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EU regulations
I am currently working on a school project in regards to the efficiency of the explosive precursor regulations enforced by the european union.
This is a topic of controversy for lots of people on this forum, there are plenty stories about having the police at your doorstep.
Some members cant even buy basic chemicals such as conc. nitric acid and sulfuric acid, this is an obstacle for the amateur chemist if the basic needs
get regulated.
To get to the point....
I need to find the regulations currently active in the EU, and if possible, specific to the Netherlands, I have failed to find these, if anyone knows
where I can find these I would like to know!
Secondly, as some sort of regulation affects you in all probability, how do you experience the effects of the regulations and what do you think about
their effect on the society and terrorist threat in general.
Thanks in advance
Kind regards
Jstuyfzand
Edit:
I have just found this
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:O...
Way down below it says: Substances which shall not be made available to members of the general public on their own, or in mixtures or substances
including them, except if the concentration is equal to or lower than the limit values set out below
For example, nitric acid 3%, everything above is regulated
Yet I can find 70% nitric acid on a dutch and thus EU site, how can this be?
[Edited on 24-5-2016 by Jstuyfzand]
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woelen
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If you can find 70% nitric acid on a dutch site, then there are two possibilities:
1) The owner of the shop only sells to business customers with a plausible use case
2) The owner of the shop does something highly illegal and may get in trouble soon.
I see that suppliers from whom I purchased chemicals in the past indeed do not sell HNO3 to the general public anymore (e.g. werkenmetmerken.nl,
hinmeijer.nl, deoplosmiddelenspecialist.nl). The same is true for H2O2 12% and higher.
I also see that HNO3 has gone from eBay and the same is true for H2O2. In the recent past quite a few sellers offered these chemicals (a good one was
APC in the UK), but now they do not sell them anymore. Apparently, 96% H2SO4 also is nearly gone, although the EU does not forbid sale of this to the
general public.
I personally believe that this kind of regulations hardly helps preventing terrorist attacks (see Paris, Brussels). Terrorists find other ways of
acquiring the required chemicals or they find completely different ways of doing their nasty things. These regulations, however, severely limit the
personal freedom of a specific group of people. Think of arts, amateur science, old photographic processes, which are severely limited by these new
regulations.
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Jstuyfzand
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 16-1-2016
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thanks Woelen, I was hoping you would reply since I saw your knowledge on this topic on some dutch forums!
The stupidest thing about this all is that you can distill most of these things to higher concentrations anyways, so they are really forcing some
useless bans.
I guess it requires a permit, the site that I was talking about is Labstuff.nl, it seems pretty popular and they are pretty active on forums so I`ll
ask them about it.
I did read something about permits in 2016, this might have something to do with the HNO3 dissapearing from the stores and such, but I cant be sure.
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woelen
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Labstuff does not sell to private persons anymore, so this is not an interesting case for you. See this thread:
http://amateurchemie.nl/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=516&star...
[Edited on 24-5-16 by woelen]
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Jstuyfzand
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I wasn`t aware of that, thank you.
Making my own acids seems more viable now! 
I guess I need to get my chlor alkali cell running.
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Chem Rage
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The EU Nanny State's oppressive blanket bans and restrictions on chemicals, which only serves to curtail the freedoms of the scientifically curious
amateur chemist and all manner of other hobbyists, is one of the main reasons why, as a Brit, I will be voting for BREXIT (the other main reason why I
support BREXIT is the environmental and ecological damage caused by the EU immigration directives: beautiful English countryside, which supports
scenic landscapes, havens for nature and wildlife, agriculture, fresh air, amenity, tourism and leisure, is being concreted-over year by year to meet
infrastructure and housing demands resulting from mass immigration-driven unsustainable population growth. Britain- a small island nation- is
overpopulated enough as it is).
Boy, I hate the EU with a passion! Pro-Europe; anti-EU.
[Edited on 24-5-2016 by Chem Rage]
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Marvin
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Chem Rage,
It is Britain that is trying to make ownership of concentrated Sulphuric acid illegal without a licence throughout Europe.
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wg48
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Quote: Originally posted by Marvin  | Chem Rage,
It is Britain that is trying to make ownership of concentrated Sulphuric acid illegal without a licence throughout Europe. |
Shoot I did not know that. Do you have link to support that?
Here in Britain about 50 years ago you could make your own fireworks and purchase all chemicals and only have to sign the poison book for poisons.
Unfortunately as fireworks night approached each year so did the number of hobbyists blowing themselves up in their garden shed increased. Home made
fireworks where banned.
Then the IRA started blowing up pups and even royals. More regulation. Now its terrorists more regulation.
Is there any evidence to support the idea that regulations can stop the bombers. Are there examples of bombings using regulated materials in spite of
the regulations?
I guess drug cooks are an other justification for regulation.
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Magpie
lab constructor
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So far things are still good in the US - but for how long. I've always thought that if you want to see the US future just look at Europe.
Installing laws that prevent the sale of chemicals is not an overriding problem IMO. We are skilled skilled enough to make our own out of earth,
fire, and water. But when the law says that you can't even own chemicals then you are hosed.
Incorporating permits into the law is nothing but a ruse - we'll see if any home chemist actually ever gets one.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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BJ68
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| Quote: |
Shoot I did not know that. Do you have link to support that?
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Point 3 at this posting:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=23212&...
Annex I is the forbidden Annex...
Bj68
[Edited on 25-5-2016 by BJ68]
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Praxichys
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Sort of related - the crazy EU has done it again with new firearms laws:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/05/news/gun-control-europe-new-...
Proposed to be banned from ownership:
- "semi-automatic firearms for civilian use which resemble weapons with automatic mechanisms."
- Deactivated (barrels/actions welded shut) firearms
- Collectors will have to get a license and face background checks even if they only own deactivated weapons.
- Blank firing weapons
Pretty soon it will be illegal to own something that "resembles" a bottle of sulfuric acid, and you'll need a license to own an empty bottle for
display purposes
@ Magpie - I can't wait until a law is passed here in the US that will require uncompensated forfeiture of my thousands of dollars of lab equipment,
or else go to prison. That is the day that I move somewhere with smarter people.
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Mabus
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Deactivated weapons to be banned from ownership? Really? What's next, banning photos of guns?
There are moments when I hate living in the EU.
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Rosco Bodine
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Only state approved correct ideas that are right thinking is allowed and approved, so it is only reasonable that the law of ideological correctness
requiring right thinking will be tasked enforcement by thought police having a zero tolerance policy towards thought criminals.
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hissingnoise
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Jeeez Rosco, you seem to have these, ahem, "Thought Police" on the brain . . . ? 
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Rosco Bodine
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Yeah I wonder how that could happen.
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hissingnoise
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Well, it's a fixation that seems positively Freudian, to be frank?
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aga
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'resemble' ?
Jeez. I had a Heckler & Koch G36 BB-gun, made under licence from Heckler & Koch, so it very much 'resembles' a real G36.
450 round mag instead of 30 though, but then the 'bullets' are a lot smaller !
Gave it to a neighbour as part compensation for a Chicken & Dog Incident.
Europe will dissolve pretty soon, so don't go panicing too much.
As has already been said, nefarious/illicit people don't care much for Laws, and seem to have endless supplies of real AK47s, bullets and explosives,
despite the Law.
The ONLY people affected are the 'normal' population, which is people like us (mostly with less glassware and reagents and stuff).
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Rosco Bodine
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Pretty soon it won't even be necessary for any actual wrong thinking to occur in order qualify as thought crime requiring intervention. It will be
entirely sufficient cause for thought police to intervene in a case where anything even resembling or perhaps suspected to be thought crime occurs.
Otherwise citizens might get the wrong idea that the authorities are soft on crime and the zero tolerance policy against wrong thinking means
nothing....that wrong idea might occur to people they can just ignore the law or trifle with it. Soon enough that would lead to anarchy and the police
state can't have that. Standards must be enforced for the greater good of society. Citizen, if you see something suspicious, say something, your
cooperation is doubleplusgood. And remember Citizen, Big Brother is watching you.
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