DDTea
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NX3 - So crazy, it just might work...
I have been pondering something rather wild lately... Nitrogen Trihalides. Yes, the terribly unstable compounds that will explode if you look at them
funny! Normally when we think of them, we think of them as kewl explosives and nothing more...but I am thinking differently. I am thinking in a way so
crazy, that it is perfect for Mad Science! What is this, you ask? Reactions with Nitrogen Trihalides!
As we all know, Nitrogen is in the same family as Phosphorus. Also, Nitrogen is more reactive than Phosphorus (that is, when it is not bonded with
itself). So, do you suppose that Nitrogen Trichloride, for example, could be a substitute for Phosphorus Trichloride in certain reactions? Or what
about Nitrogen Triiodide?
To minimize the handling of these compounds, they would be made and kept in a single container - never to be moved. The impure reaction mixture would
be decanted off. Then, the chemical to be halogenated would be added to the reaction vessel.
Sound good? This has never been tried, as far as I know, so it just might work. It is so mad, that I'm sure we're all just wetting our
pants to try it first  .
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DDTea
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You misread my post, but you are not stupid . I guess I was not clear with what I
was saying.
I meant that, when Nitrogen is NOT bonded to itself, it is a very reactive element. Yes, N2 is very inert, almost on the level of the Noble Gases.
...Samosas are pretty good though eh?
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madscientist
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Nitrogen trihalides might be useful for halogenations. However, there is a very significant difference between nitrogen and phosphorus chemistry that
affect your suggestions: nitrogen tends to be trivalent, with the pentavalent state decomposing exothermically; while phosphorus tends to be
pentavalent, easily oxidizing from the +3 oxidation state to +5.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Darkfire
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Samosa are you thinking of making something similar to G's with this idea?
CTR
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
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DDTea
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What are G's? Actually, I was considering this idea for Chloroacetic Acid and Cyanogen Chloride...though I don't think the latter would work
(Methyl Chloride reacted with NCl3 to produce Ammonia + Cyanogen Chloride). But basically, just for Chlorinations or Iodinations in general .
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madscientist
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http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=60
| Quote: | | Why not add a stoichemitric quantity of a dry ammonium salt (preferrably ammonium chloride) to the organic substance to be chlorinated, and pass dry
chlorine gas through the mix? Ammonium salts easily form nitrogen trichloride when chlorine gas comes in contact with them, and nitrogen trichloride
should be a great chlorinating agent. Basically, the ammonium chloride would be a "catalyst" that got used up in the reaction.
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Perhaps you could take that idea for a spin?
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Darkfire
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G-series agents,
i was wondering if it were somehow possible you could convert the NCl3 into PCl3, then well you would have the major precurser to really a vast group
of your favorite substances... althought i wouldnt be suprise it your first atemp was your last.
CTR
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
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DDTea
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I suppose that NCl3 could be used to make PCl3...however, the question is, would it be easier?
Consider this, to make NCl3, you have to use Chlorine Gas anyway. Then, you would be adding Phosphorus and decomposing the NCl3...
Instead, you could simply add Chlorine Gas to warm Phosphorus and get the same product.
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Theoretic
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Quote:
"Nitrogen trichloride, also called nitrogen chloride, agene, chlorine nitride, trichloramine, trichlorine nitride, chloride of azode, or
Stickstofftrichlorid, is an unstable primary explosive compound. Its preparation is not complicated and the chemicals used are simple, cheap, and
readily obtainable. You could pump the stuff out by the liter if it was not so sensitive. Nitrogen trichloride will explode if heated, exposed to
sunlight, or mixed with organic compounds. It does not like to be friendly around many other chemicals, shock, sparks, and it will explode if frozen
and thawed. The explosive properties were first reported in the 18th century by Sir H. Davy, he had this to say: "The fulminating oil which you
mentioned roused my curiosity and nearly deprived me of an eye. After some months of confinement I am again well." Ouch, that must have
hurt."
But, if you are crazy enough...
Quote:
"Dissolve 30 g of ammonium nitrate in 70 mL water in a 200-mL Erlenmeyer flask. Prepare a chlorine generator as described in the synthesis
section. Place a tube connected to the generator at the bottom of the flask so the chlorine gas can bubble into the liquid, a bubbler will help a lot
with the reaction. Gently heat the flask to start the reaction while adding chlorine gas. An oily yellow liquid will begin to appear on the bottom of
the flask, that is the nitrogen trichloride. Stop heating the flask when the drops appear. After 20 to 30 minutes the reaction should be complete. Use
a medicine dropper to extract the nitrogen trichloride from the flask, transfer it to a small test tube and remove any water accidently sucked up with
it. You will need a graduated cylinder for measuring liquids. This explosive will decompose within 24 hours of its preparation."
As you see, nitrogen trichloride isn't that friendly with organic compounds.
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AngelEyes
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Prompted by a discussion in the E&W forum about the total impracticability of NCl<sub>3</sub> I started thinking. (I am unable to post
to E&W so I do so here. Better class of forum-ites here anyway...)
Wouldn't it be possible to perform a double replacement reaction with NCl<sub>3</sub> and NaN<sub>3</sub>? This, it
seems, would form NaCl and N(N<sub>3</sub> , or
N<sub>10</sub> !! You could probably use Lead Azide instead forming Lead Chloride (which is insoluble) to drive the reaction to the right.
3NaN<sub>3</sub> + NCl<sub>3</sub> --> 3NaCl + N(N<sub>3</sub> ???
Would Nitrogen TriAzide even exist? Would it be hideously sensitive?
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Blind Angel
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Well, this would be more N4 the pyramidal form no?
/}/_//|//) /-\\/|//¬/=/_
My PGP Key Fingerprint: D4EA A609 55E4 7ADD 8529 359D D6E2 33F6 4C76 78ED |
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AngelEyes
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Sorry, N(N<sub>3</sub><sub>3</sub>
[Edited on 7-10-2003 by AngelEyes]
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Marvin
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Id bet sizable money nitrogen triazide wouldnt exist for longer than a single molecular vibration.
In the same way, by analogy (N3)2 should exist like Cl2 does. But any attempts only produce nitrogen gas.
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