RogueRose
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Alternative carbon to replace charcoal for black powder?
When I make a little batch of BP I'm always amazed at the volume of charcoal dust as compared to the rest of the ingredients (it is often same volume
or even more) but it is very light and fluffy.
I was wondering what would be the effects of using something like lamp black (soot) or making carbon from table sugar and H2SO4 and then powdering to
a very fine powder/dust.
I was also wondering if there would be any benefit to using activated charcoal/carbon very finely powdered. When I get my AC (5 - 10lb containers of
1mm^3 to 3 mm^3) I usually rinse it thoroughly, over and over to get all the dust and super small particles that could pass through filters. This
means about 5% of the AC comes out as small particles and could be turned to dust.
I was thinking that maybe the AC, having the small micro crevices, may allow for some of the S of KNO3 mix into it (if finely powdered enough?) Would
dissolving the KNO3, mixing in the AC and stirring, then mix in sulfur & stir to mix completely. Then dry completely (under vacuum and dessicant
if needed). Finally grind and possibly mill if needed. Could this process give a potential better product than simply mixing the 3 ingredients and
grind/milling?
So can the different carbons work as well or possibly even better?
-Could activated carbon possibly work better?
and,
-could mixing to a slurry of dissolved KNO3 and AC give more intimate mixing as in described process?
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Fulmen
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No, activated charcoal is utter crap for black powder.
AC is charred at very high temperatures, making it fairly pure carbon with a very high ignition temperature. Good charcoal for BP is charred at low
temperature, barely high enough to turn it black. This produces the lowest ignition point which is crucial for fast burning.
As for wet processing it's known as the CIA or precipitation method. It uses alcohol to promote rapid precipitation of KNO3 into the charcoal and does
produce a decent powder suitable for fireworks.
A combination of precipitation and milling could in theory increase performance, but I doubt it's worth the extra effort compared to simply increasing
the milling time.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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RogueRose
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Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  |
No, activated charcoal is utter crap for black powder.
AC is charred at very high temperatures, making it fairly pure carbon with a very high ignition temperature. Good charcoal for BP is charred at low
temperature, barely high enough to turn it black. This produces the lowest ignition point which is crucial for fast burning.
As for wet processing it's known as the CIA or precipitation method. It uses alcohol to promote rapid precipitation of KNO3 into the charcoal and does
produce a decent powder suitable for fireworks.
A combination of precipitation and milling could in theory increase performance, but I doubt it's worth the extra effort compared to simply increasing
the milling time. |
Wow, thanks for the info about the AC! I have some black powder that I thought was good, but it was made with AC powder, so I'll have to try charring
some of my own. I have access to a lot of trees and can probably get cuttings or scraps from wood workers locally.
I've heard that the charcoal can make a huge difference between the type of species that is used. I've searched and found many conflicting statements
like one says never use a fruit wood or oak while others say any coniferous tree performs very poorly. The places that seem to recommend the same
woods the pages and recipes seem to be kind of copies of each other (like they read same book or watched same video) but one constant is that most
seems to state that they type can be a major impact on performance. Now that you mention the char quality (not super cooked) that may be part of the
reason. I've read that willow is good but that may be difficult to find.
On my property I have lots to choose from: oak (white, red & pinoak) , black & wild cherry, black walnut, mulberry (white & red) , elm,
sycamore, white pine, maple (norway & silver), scotch pine, norway spruce, blue spruce, douglas fur, fraiser fur, bamboo (fairly thick stalk -
2-4"), Chestnut (horse), yew, juniper, arborvitae, Thuja (green giant type), hickory, Hemlock, Redbud, locust (black & other??), red maple,
dogwood, crab apple, holly, sassafras, apple, pear, peach, plum, mimosa, magnolia, yellow poplar, tupip poplar, and sumac . Local wood working
shops probably have a lot more and if there was something I could ask for I'm sure I could find it. I know there are lots of apple, peach, pear,
grape vine (heard that may be good).
I had actually used charcoal from my wood stove that was unburnt wood when I cleaned the stove out, so I'm sure it had been glowing red at one point
but thought it was good b/c it broke up easy. I'll have to re-think that. I have about 30-50lbs of charcoal from the ash (sifted out when processing
K2CO3!!) and am wondering if this might work as activated charcoal and it is either cherry or oak. That would be awesome if I had that much AC
available!!!
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Fulmen
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The pyrotechnic community have pretty much explored this to perfection, dig around and you'll find everything you'll ever want to know about BP. There
will always be some conflicting data, but generally soft hardwoods (fast growing, low density) perform best. Willow is pretty much the standard, but
there are a few that will perform even better. My research points to Black Alder (Frangula Alnus) as the very best of the species growing locally.
Alder is also supposed to be quite good. My advice is to not focus too much on what is best, availability is just as important.
Many sources recommend harvesting during the spring while the sap is rising, another good trick is to leave the wood in the open to weather for a
year.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Frangula Alnus is best. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frangula_alnus
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite (2024)
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Bert
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Second the Black Alder, which is an invasive species/weed tree in the midwestern USA- You can have all of it you want, they generally would like you
to get rid of the stuff.
For black powder, choose the SMALL branches/1 year growth twigs, take them at the end of winter before their second year. Maximum early growth season,
low density wood, a minimum of dense, late season wood this way.
Copicing is a good way to do this.
If you have one of these, and it won't look ugly, cut it down in winter and leave about a 3-4' tall stump. The large root system and lots of stored
energy from previous year pumped into the small remaining above ground portion will result in the sprouting of new, fast growing, STRAIGHT UP branches
all around next summer ("water sprouts").
The new branches will likely reach at least an inch thick at their base and have relatively thin bark, little enough so barking the wood before making
charcoal is not needed. Cut all the branches off again at one year, in late winter, leave the stump. You can repeat this for decades. These trees are
tough bastards, they just won't die.
Same technique works for willow, North American silver maple, box elder, etc.
This is how DuPont grew all the wood for their BP mills right on the mill property at one point in their history. It's about as cellulose production
per acre intensive as you can get with woody trees. You might get more weight of cellulose/acre/year from Hemp, but you would need fertilizer to do so
(Hemp makes great black powder too).
Before mineral coal and finally, coke and oil/natural gas came into use in Europe, you did NOT just idly cut down some trees for firewood! They were
VALUABLE. You might be fined or imprisoned for being so thoughtless.
Copicing or another technique where the long, straight main trunk was topped and allowed to bush out at the first crotch (called polarding) were often
used as a sustainable and higher yield method. The roots lived through many harvests of the small branches for charcoal, basket weaving, wattle and
daub building materials, etc.
The trees didn't waste a bunch of energy growing roots and lower trunk. Polarded trees were harder to harvest for small wood, but eventually yielded a
large saw log. This was more often done with edible nut trees such as European chestnut, or oaks that the Royal Navy would eventually need the trunks
of for war ships.
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Invasive species
Frangula alnus was probably introduced to North America about 200 years ago, and in Canada about 100 years ago. It was planted for hedgerows,
forestry plantings, and wildlife habitat, but has become an invasive species, invading forests in the northeastern United States and wetlands and
moist forest in the Midwestern United States.[13][14][15] It is predicted to continue to expand its North American range with time.[13] Its
invasiveness is assisted by its high adaptability and pollution tolerance.[16]
It invades forests and grows in the understory in spots with a lot of light. These areas, usually where a tree has fallen, normally allow locally
native tree seedlings to grow and eventually fill in the gap in the canopy. But when Frangula alnus invades and grows in these locations, its dense
canopy prevents light from reaching the ground and therefore prevents other seedlings from growing.[16] It tends to grow more densely and with larger
individuals in lower topographical areas with moist, fertile soils, and is very problematic for land managers.
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1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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JJay
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Sugar carbon, made by reacting sugar and sulfuric acid followed by thorough washing, is said to be the purest form of carbon, but it's much more
expensive than wood charcoal.
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Vomaturge
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| Quote: Originally posted by JJay | | Sugar carbon, made by reacting sugar and sulfuric acid followed by thorough washing, is said to be the purest form of carbon, but it's much more
expensive than wood charcoal. |
It also has many large pores, it seems. This would seem to help give more reactive area. But then again, as extremely pure carbon, it might have the
same problem as activated charcoal: A lack of volatile content to help the decomposition, and as a result a graphite-like autoignition temperature and
a slow burn rate. Still might be worth a shot.
[Edited on 6-2-2018 by Vomaturge]
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