Yttrium2
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French press vs Percolated coffee
The moka pot is very similar to siphon coffee and common drip style coffee pots. The water passes through the coffee in these devices generally only
once.
In a French press / Percolater
It steeps in the water and or water goes around and around in againr, possibly losing volume each time, which might be good.
this is the immersion way of making coffee. Yet?, my guess is a percolated brew is stronger because hotter water touches the beans?
Which device works best with fine' groun'?
[Edited on 4/4/2018 by Yttrium2]
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clearly_not_atara
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For finely ground beans you want to use a percolator. French press / pour over coffee makers work better with a coarser grind.
Truth is, if you're interested in improving your coffee experience I think it's more important to freshly grind your beans in the morning rather than
worrying about the coffeemaker. I use a $2 plastic pour over together with this baby:
https://www.amazon.com/Capresso-559-04-Coffee-Burr-Grinder/d...
For french press / pour over / coffeemaker / Chemex / other coarse styles, usually a cheap grinder like this one will do fine. Make sure you buy a
burr grinder and not a blade grinder. Blade grinders are a rip-off: it seems cheap at first but you have to replace the blade so much
it quickly becomes more expensive. I've been using this coffee grinder for three years with no problems and no replacements: that's what you want. For
espresso / moka pot / percolator other finely-ground high-pressure coffee, you might want a more expensive grinder.
I could never go back to pre-ground coffee. Actually I did buy a bag of ground coffee recently while I was away on a trip and it just isn't the same.
[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
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happyfooddance
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I agree with everything that clearly_not_atara said, but I will add that temperature is super crucial. Some beans (ground) will release significantly
more tannins if brewed even a few degrees hotter, even for steep times as low as 3 minutes. Water at its BP does not make great coffee. Everybody's
taste preference is different (I myself enjoy "bitter" much more than the next guy, but...), I have seen that people most enjoy coffee that is brewed
around 80°C or lower.
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aga
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sounds like that comment is culled from ..... this :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ83kt4a2-A
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happyfooddance
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But it isn't. It's culled from 20+ years of making coffee every day... Professionally and personally. And about 5 years of studying separation
science.
As if one could learn to make coffee from that show, which, despite the subject matter being a chemical, is utterly devoid of anything of interest to
a chemist.
Edit: FYI, almost all coffee roasters (Starbucks, Seattle's best, Peet's, and most others) have professional coffee experts on their staff; if you
call their customer service number they will connect you with them. They will discuss and help you troubleshoot brewing issues, specific to your
roast. They will ask you about your brewing equipment, temperature, concentration, purity of water, etc... And they will lead you to the perfect cup.
Sigma Aldrich has pretty much the same service. It's like a direct line to Nicodem, almost. But without the trolls.
[Edited on 4-4-2018 by happyfooddance]
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clearly_not_atara
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Alton Brown did an episode of Good Eats about espresso where he elaborates on the importance of grinders and temperature control. He also discusses
espresso machines (duh) because that's how he likes it I guess. Might be a slightly better reference than some guy who can't reduce nitromethane 
[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
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happyfooddance
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Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  | | Alton Brown did an episode of Good Eats about espresso where he elaborates on the importance of grinders and temperature control. He also discusses
espresso machines (duh) because that's how he likes it I guess. Might be a slightly better reference than some guy who can't reduce nitromethane |
Out of curiosity, who can't reduce nitromethane? Doesn't seem like much of a challenge. That being said, I doubt anybody on the food network would
know how to reduce nitromethane.
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aga
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I do no know how to reduce nitromethane.
Guess i could google, but at this very moment, i have very little idea how that would be done, nor what the result(s) would be.
Edit:
It would be nice to be informed.
Disassociater: i also have no idea what the 'food channel' is, unless it starts with Shopping and ends with toilet paper (some biology happens
inbetween).
[Edited on 4-4-2018 by aga]
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Yttrium2
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Why does fine grind work better in a percolator?
Which filters the best between a percolator and a French press. My guess is it's the Percolater because of the gap between in the French press,
between the filter and the wall of of the device.
Also percolators can include paper filters, so it can be better filtered than regular camp style no filter percolation.
Which would you recommend and why?
Also, which device uses the least water to brew? (I mean which is better at extracting using the least amount of water) My guess is that drip coffee
is more potent because the grounds are washed and washed again with fresh water (I think I mean drip coffee is a more efficient extract!?)
Please answer the above question.
Anyone ever make coffee in a soxhlet?
[Edited on 4/4/2018 by Yttrium2]
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Chemetix
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This one has taken up considerable amounts of my time getting right.
French press makes insipid coffee to my tastes, and the ever present stovetop percolators with the screw together sections, you know the hexagonal
ones, make a overly bitter brew. But the screw together ones make a quick coffee and with a bit of attention to detail they make an excellent coffee.
Most people screw them together after dumping in some water and spoon or two of whatever coffee grinds and them boil them until there's steam bubbling
out the top.
Wrong!
1) add the right amount of water relative to the amount of coffee, measure it!
2) add the coffee at the right particle size why this is important will be explained.
3) don't let the water boil.
The best coffee will have a trace of the bitter polyphenols and tannins but not too much, they become mobile above about 90C or so I'm told. So try to
keep the water in the extraction process below this or ever so briefly over. So run the percolator on low heat, watch the stream come over, and when a
trace of bubbles appear move the percolator over into a source of cooling water and stop the water from getting to boiling. Back pressure will affect
the boiling point, don't over pack the coffee with small particles that leads to higher back pressure and higher temperatures. Don't make them too
coarse either, they wont extract properly.
Keep this in mind next time and experiment with what you favourite coffee tastes like by letting the final touch of heat go a little longer or
shorter.
Bon appetite!
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Yttrium2
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Enough lecturing, please stick to the questions I am asking in this thread.
Im talking about a regular percolator that recirculates the hot coffee through the grounds.
Not a stove top moka pot. These only pass the solvent through the beans one time, but its similar to drip coffee in the sense that it might be an
efficient extraction because its sorta like several washes of beans as the water passes through,
but with a percolator, the coffee recirculates over the beans again, when the device is opened there is a lot of coffee soaked up in the grounds which
is holding onto the caffiene.
as opposed to a drip brew coffee where the grounds aren't soaking up the coffee, but the coffee drips through
Do people see what I'm saying about how in a traditional percolator, the coffee grounds are holding onto a lot of multi brewed coffee whereas in a
drip brew coffee device, the grounds are repeatedly flushed with fresh solvent. --- So that in this device, it does a good job at getting the caffiene
from the beans.
comments here please.
[Edited on 4/4/2018 by Yttrium2]
[Edited on 4/4/2018 by Yttrium2]
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Yttrium2
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percolator produces a concentrated brew, but some of the caffiene is still in the grounds
whereas
drip system - several washes of the beans have been done, leaving less potent grounds behind
In summary, drip coffee and or likely a moka pot uses more water but gets all the goodies
A moka pots use wasn't occuring to me earlier because I wasn't seeing how the beans get flushed till there is hardly anything remaning, like in a drip
system.. I should realized it..
[Edited on 4/4/2018 by Yttrium2]
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Yttrium2
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If a precipitate was produced when percolating something, would it get sucked up and end up in the filter at the top of the basket?
also, check out the bialetti mini express !
[Edited on 4/5/2018 by Yttrium2]
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Chemetix
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Please forgive passion for coming across as "lecturing". But a "regular" percolator is not regular here, we don't see the recirculating ones so my
idea about what you are referring to was different.
But as for extraction, caffeine is highly soluble in water, many of the flavour components are less so. Running extended extraction will just make an
unbalanced flavoured coffee. You say there is left over caffeine in percolated coffee, I was led to understand otherwise so I'm interested in your
source on that point.
But there is a different cultural perception about what makes a 'good' coffee, Australians generally can't stand the American coffee pot style coffee.
Italian espresso style is something Australians are more aligned with but culturally we like our flat white.
And yes I've Soxhlet extracted coffee and it tastes weird.
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j_sum1
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What Chemetix describes is a stovetop espresso rather than a percolator. I haven't seen one of those in ages - they are good if you like stewed
coffee. If you are going to do that you may as well boil your grounds with the water for a while and then filter.
The thing about these espresso gadgets is that there are a fairly large number of variables that you need to get right. And only one variable that
you "measure" -- the final taste. This means that over time you develop a knack for getting the kind of brew you like but exactly what conditions
produce that brew is difficult to nail down.
Beans vary considerably -- both the bean flavour and the roasting. My latest bag of beans is from a different source and I have had to adjust my
method considerably.
Fineness of grind -- this is related to the roasting process since a dark roast bean is more brittle, has fewer oils and breaks up differently.
Rato of beans to water. I have several stovetop coffee makers and most simply don't get the proportion right. Running it only partially full does
not always give the right result.
Tamping the grind -- this affects the pressure at which the extraction takes place. It also affects the temperature and the rate of the extraction.
Heat input -- I am going to disagree with Chemetix that the temperature varies a whole lot -- the system is driven by a head of steam and so the
remaining water is close to 100C. But the rate at which the steam is produced combined with the fineness of teh grind and the tamping affects the
volume flow rate and hence the lengtyh of time that the water is in contact with the beans.
I know this is all off topic since this is not the device the OP was asking about. But it does serve to show that these kind of cullinary processes
are surprisingly complex. And with only dependent variable (taste), and that subjective, coffee making is definitely more of an art than a science.
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Yttrium2
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Definitely...
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Yttrium2
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Hey! : l
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JJay
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I like regular espresso made by putting small amounts of boiling water through coarsely ground coffee. Supposedly, the caffeine is more soluble in
water than some of the off-flavored compounds like tannins. Diluted espresso is called an Americano for some reason, although Americans typically just
drink brewed coffee.
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j_sum1
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That sounds similar to the Vietnamese method Jjay. Look up chemplayer's tiramisu recipe for a great-looking extraction. Mouthwatering stuff.
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JJay
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I just looked up how to make Vietnamese coffee... with espresso, the boiling water is forced through the grounds at high pressure, remaining in
contact with them for a minimal amount of time... typically less than 30 seconds. Also, less water is used I think - 60 mL of espresso can easily make
a strong 250 mL Americano.
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j_sum1
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Ok. That's different again.
Did you see chemplayer?
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JJay
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Yes. I see that sum_lab has some new videos.
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j_sum1
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Yeah. It has taken a bit of doing. But I am pleased to have some new stuff up.
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JJay
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | I do no know how to reduce nitromethane.
Guess i could google, but at this very moment, i have very little idea how that would be done, nor what the result(s) would be.
Edit:
It would be nice to be informed.
Disassociater: i also have no idea what the 'food channel' is, unless it starts with Shopping and ends with toilet paper (some biology happens
inbetween).
[Edited on 4-4-2018 by aga] |
I seem to remember reading something about Organikum using zinc and hydrochloric acid. I suspect it is probably possible to do it many other ways.
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