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Mr. Rogers
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Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  | | Saying a vegan diet is fine because in the modern world fortified foods are available doesn't cut it for me. In the modern world a vegan will be fine,
but only on the modern world... |
But we're living in the modern world, are we not?
Don't confuse veganism with some type of appeal to nature. I don't know any vegan that claimed their diet is natural, only that it's ethical.
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Mr. Rogers
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| Quote: Originally posted by JustTalker | You have to consider other unhealthy practices like cooking, mixing, preserving, growing inappropriately, storage, which are all harmful.
Oh, let me guess, it has not been proven that it is harmful? |
I think most people have made some type of risk assessment and determined these are beneficial activities. Cooking food makes it easier for humans to
digest and potentially safer as it neutralizes pathogens that we're no longer able to deal with.
I could also end up with cancer or salmonella from the way I cook food. but I don't shun cooking because of this.
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Melgar
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If your blood had no calcium ions in it, you'd find yourself dead in pretty short order.
| Quote: | Blood can be different, urine can be different, breath can be different, sweat can be different, and nobody's same.
It is not standard as you think. Sure, yes up to some point, with certain parameters, but not all parameters. |
But only slightly different. Blood must have a pH of 7.4, and stay within a very narrow range. People have over 99.9% of our DNA the same,
and so we have far more in common than we probably realize.
| Quote: | Also you who talk about how it is not efficient to grow strawberries instead of livestock, please prove it.
I can prove you are wrong if i wanted to test it in real life. Growing plants is much more efficient than growing animals. |
Thermodynamically, obviously plants are more efficient. But produce has to be shipped fresh, in refrigerated trucks. A lot is wasted, since fresh
fruit has a short shelf life. There's also the parts of the plant we don't use, and there can be a lot of that. For potatoes, we don't use the
above-ground part at all. With cattle, by comparison, we use every single part for something. Far more than the American Indians ever used. See:
the hot dog.
Really though, most people can't tell the difference between good soil and bad soil. It just all looks like dirt to them. California dirt looks the
same as Kansas dirt. Farmers know the difference though, just try and convince a cattle rancher in Kansas to using his land to grow strawberries, and
see what his reaction is.
I'm not sure why I have such strong opinions on this subject. Probably because of all the time I spent in NYC with all these people who wouldn't know
the first thing about farming actual acres of land. But they seemed convinced that farmers are all in the pockets of big agribusiness, and were just
too ignorant to know any better. Apologies if I've inadvertently lumped anyone here into that category.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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AJKOER
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| Quote: Originally posted by unionised | In the real world, any excess alkali in the diet will be excreted in the urine. The body has several robust systems in place to maintain pH.
So an "alkaline diet" is meaningless. It's the sort of nonsense that people use when they want to sell you "healing crystals"
Iron in the blood is strongly bound to proteins specially evolved for the purpose. The concentration of free Fe++ or Fe+++ ions is practically nil.
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On reflection, the body rigorously maintaining its pH may have consequences!
Let me tell you a story about a neighbor I once had. He was a nice old man probably in the 60s who one day went for a walk. His hip bone fractured
likely from frailty due to calcium deficiency. As apparently calcium is used to neutralize acid in the body, having a diet that is either acidic (or
produces acidic products) may eventually have serious consequences!
What is most disturbing about this point, is that I can recall but once talking to healthcare person (doctor, nurse, …) and was never told that
maybe a price was to be paid for eating say, red meat sometime down the road. This is either due to ignorance or perhaps even greed (as Big Pharma
can't make money selling Calcium/Magnesium pills) but, in any event, I look at it as poor medical practice.
On one occasion, I actually recall a conversation with a teaching doctor, no less, with whom I try to discuss diet. To my shock he pointed to a food
chart on his desk. The latter in my opinion, is actually more of a political document than anything to do with healthcare science telling you how
much vegetables, protein,..., are recommended in your average daily diet.
[Edited on 10-11-2018 by AJKOER]
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER |
...I can never recall any healthcare person (doctor, nurse, …) ever telling me there was maybe a price to be paid for eating say, red meat, ...
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Get better medical care.
http://www.who.int/features/qa/cancer-red-meat/en/
Incidentally, pH adjustments in the body are usually based on carbonate/ bicarbonate rather than calcium.
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AJKOER
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Thanks Unionised, but I have ammended my comment due to a single recollection with a teaching doctor no less. As he actually refused to discuss diet,
I recall this event. I don't believe it was the doctor, it was the management (AMA police whose interests are not aligned with my health goals).
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That is great advice on your provided link!
Unfortunately, in my opinion, the odds of a World Health Report available on any doctor's desk in the USA is worst than the mega million lottery.
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Interestingly, calcium deficiency results from low Ca levels in the blood. Foods like cow's milk, containing casein (see https://www.healthline.com/health/allergies/casein#caseinfre...) may cause an allergic reaction (since people are not cows) which may reduce the
absorption of minerals!
[Edited on 10-11-2018 by AJKOER]
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kulep
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When people talk about cancer rates in humans they seem to forget we didn't evolve as a long-lasting individuals species. 150 thousand years ago when
we came to be an induvidual 40 years old was an elder, so it's logical we can double our lifespan living in captivity —as any other animal—
Elephants, tortoises, whales, and other long lasting animals have many DNA repairing mechanisms on many levels, that range from single point damage to
telomere shortening.
Life has already found a way to preserve genetic information for many many years. Keep some cells alive, make an entire new individual from those with
a very fast replication rate, and then wait untill the original cells die. Works like a charm, except that those old cells want to stay around longer
for some reason.
If all people understood how many things are happening just inside a single ordinary cell, they wouldn't believe how the fuck we can be alive for so
much time.
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by kulep | When people talk about cancer rates in humans they seem to forget we didn't evolve as a long-lasting individuals species. 150 thousand years ago when
we came to be an induvidual 40 years old was an elder, so it's logical we can double our lifespan living in captivity —as any other animal—
Elephants, tortoises, whales, and other long lasting animals have many DNA repairing mechanisms on many levels, that range from single point damage to
telomere shortening.
. |
It seems you think tortoises have good DNA repair because they live a long time.
I think they live a long time because they have good DNA repair.
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Tsjerk
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER |
Let me tell you a story about a neighbor I once had. He was a nice old man probably in the 60s who one day went for a walk. His hip bone fractured
likely from frailty due to calcium deficiency.
[Edited on 10-11-2018 by AJKOER] |
BS, Yes, severe calcium deficiency does cause osteoporosis, but it is close to impossible to have a diet in western society so poor in calcium it
causes osteoporosis. Calcium is so abundant it is very hard to gain an insufficiency. Osteoporosis is caused by genetics, which is supported by the
fact osteoporosis is correlated with hormone unbalances.
https://jeanhailes.org.au/health-a-z/bone-health/causes-of-o...
Even anorexia is correlated to osteoporosis because of hormonal unbalances, and not by the lack of calcium intake.
BS, carbonate/bicarbonate are. Calcium, except for being a spectator ion calcium has nothing to do with pH maintenance.
| Quote: Originally posted by kulep |
Elephants, tortoises, whales, and other long lasting animals have many DNA repairing mechanisms on many levels, that range from single point damage to
telomere shortening.
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I don't think so. Level of metabolism is more correlated than DNA repair mechanisms (humans on a diet so minimal it slows down metabolism, live
significantly longer). The animals which are closest relatives to humans that actually have a DNA repair system different than us, are amphibians.
Among mammals there are very few too none differences in DNA repair mechanisms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851235/
What are you trying to say here? I read; low levels of calcium are needed for calcium deficiency. A foreign (not foreign also works btw) compound is
needed to cause an allergic reaction. An allergic reaction can cause lowered absorption of minerals.
Yes, all very true. But except for a little irony of cow milk causing low calcium absorption I don't see anything scientifically interesting in this
statement.
[Edited on 11-11-2018 by Tsjerk]
[Edited on 11-11-2018 by Tsjerk]
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