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Author: Subject: Acquisition of Conc. H2SO4
Gaz
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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 10:14
Acquisition of Conc. H2SO4


I have looked everywhere in a futile attempt at locating some conc. H2SO4. I know it is commonly available in technical grade as a drain unblocker, but I am having trouble even finding this.
Concentrated H2SO4 is such a useful and versatile reagent that I am at a loss without it. :(
Could it be made by drying dilute H2SO4 with anhydrous MgSO4?
Does anyone know where I can find the reagent (as drain unblocker)? I does'nt really matter if the acid is impure.
I am in the UK, by the way.
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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 10:55


Last place I saw it was BandQ labeled as "one shot" drain cleaner in the plumbing supply part of the store.

You can't get it by drying dilute H2SO4 with MgSO4 (because it dissolves) but you could distil it. However, if you need to be told that, I don't think you should try to distil the stuff.
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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 12:03


If you have diluted sulfuric acid you can concentrate it by boiling away the water in it. It is very easy. Heat it until thick white fumes (SO3) start to come from it.



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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 12:17


How much do you need? That is also an important factor. If you need a liter, i have no idea. but 30mL (or you could get a couple bottles) you can order from home science tools.

[Edited on 26-2-2008 by chemkid]




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chemrox
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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 13:13


Plumbing suppliers should be able to give you "Septi-clear" drain cleaner. http://www.septiclearinc.com/product.html

They will be able to direct you to a local supplier or sell it to you directly. Ask for the MSDS on the products to make sure you get the one that is nearly 100% H2SO4.




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Gaz
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[*] posted on 26-2-2008 at 20:15


I have found a source of 96% H2SO4- I think it will suffice for concentrated H2SO4, technical grade: Kilrock Kil-Block Sink/Drain Clear 500ml. Hopefully, it will not contain any additives (fragrance, dyes, surfactants, etc).
Organic chemistry (nitrations, preparation of esters, etc), inorganic chemistry (study of chromium and vanadium compounds), polymer preparation.....the possibilities are endless.
I will not bother with distillation, because I do not yet have the specialised equipment. Nor do I have a fume cupboard to trap any escaping sulphur trioxide/dioxide gas in the event of an accident.
All this effort just to obtain sulphuric acid for amateur chemistry experimentation! Not like the 'good old days', when you could buy chemicals from chemical stockists without too many questions being asked.

[Edited on 27-2-2008 by Gaz]
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[*] posted on 4-3-2008 at 18:44


http://scientificsonline.com for 30ml reagent grade
you can find 1/2 L to a L 97% + on ebay from time to time
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MagicJigPipe
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[*] posted on 4-3-2008 at 21:33


"Nor do I have a fume cupboard to trap any escaping sulphur trioxide/dioxide gas"

I'm pretty sure SO3/SO2 will not be produced with any normal accident you may experience with H2SO4. I sure wish it would as I would be recreating this "accident" in a controlled environment.




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[*] posted on 5-3-2008 at 00:58


www.lpchemicals.com

1L lab-grade 98% H2SO4 for 6,90.
Also many other common things for very good price (e.g. 1L nitric conc, for 6,15)
When I asked to them, will you send to individuals, they said yes. They would charge me high shippings though, because I was in the Netherlands. You are in the UK, and it's a UK company. Many otehr chemicals can be had very cheap here.

They also sell things like Chloroform, Acetic Anhydride , 2,5L formaldehyde (9,85!), and more. Very good site! Shame it has so many shippings for me.
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[*] posted on 7-3-2008 at 08:32


you can buy sodium bisulfate by the pound for cheap. Adding this to absolute ethanol affords you sodium sulfate and sulfuric acid. Haven't tried this, but I think the sulfate salt will precipitate out, then you distill off the ethanol, which would bring over some of the water that might be in there if you used denatured or azeotropic alcohol



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UnintentionalChaos
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[*] posted on 7-3-2008 at 10:32


Quote:
Originally posted by LoKi
you can buy sodium bisulfate by the pound for cheap. Adding this to absolute ethanol affords you sodium sulfate and sulfuric acid. Haven't tried this, but I think the sulfate salt will precipitate out, then you distill off the ethanol, which would bring over some of the water that might be in there if you used denatured or azeotropic alcohol


Main problems are: absolute ethanol is really pricey compared to sulfuric acid. Distilling a mix of H2SO4 and ethanol will give you diethyl ether, ethylene, and I would expect some ethyl hydrogen sulfate to remain in the still pot....plus you're distilling organics with a strong dehydrating agent that is also a strong acid-----> Inevitable polymeric crap




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[*] posted on 23-3-2008 at 09:46


Jor, IPChemicals seems to be a Pakistani company, based in Lahore; 'might explain your high shipping charges?
P
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[*] posted on 23-3-2008 at 11:27


"Jor, IPChemicals seems to be a Pakistani company, based in Lahore; 'might explain your high shipping charges?"

LP Chemicals
Road 5, Winsford Industrial Estate, Winsford, Cheshire CW7 3RB, United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)1606 594 593 Fax: +44 (0)1606 594 603

Company registration number: 4538662 VAT number: 819-4252-22

Anyone else got any experience with this co? I might order some solvents myself




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DJF90
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 04:53


There used to be a £50 minimum online order, but they've re-vamped the site and i can't remember seeing anything about it. I haven't ordered from them before, but I intend to when I finally get some glassware and a space to experiment :D
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 05:53


Regarding LP Chemicals, you need to register to be able to buy from then and they email you a password for the site(which can take weeks!). Once you have received this, you click on an emailed link to "activate" your account and then you are free to order. However, your order can then take an additional 10-14 days to be processed whilst they check the combination of chemicals ordered to see if they are acceptable, and then you have the additional wait for the actual delivery! I've not ordered anything yet, but will be doing so in the near future. An additional source of conc. (98%) Sulphuric Acid is Mistral in Ireland. It costs £4.99 plus P&P for 250ml, you only need to set up an account with an email and password, and you pay by credit card. Delivery is fairly quick and items are well packaged! Hope this helps.
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organometallic
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 07:29


Cool. Just browsing the LP site, i came across their section on "Common uses for laboratory chemicals" haha, they essentially give a list of uses for various chems for a customer with dodgy intentions to say when buying em. haha

http://www.lpchemicals.com/common-uses-for-laboratory-chemic...




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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 08:21


Thanks for the correction, org, I mixed up my Ls with my Is.
I might try them, myself even though they're pricey. Interesting selection, though!
P
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 11:01


LP chemicals are excellent suppliers, I have ordered from them twice. You do not need to register with them, you can just call them.

Shipping is hefty however paying the £10 charge is the ceiling... they will ship whatever you order at a max of £10 shipping.

The chemicals come in excellent bottles, with easy pour lids. The purity is never an issue and they do stock chemicals other than those listed on there website, all you need do is ask.

Hope I have helped
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 11:33


I know this is a little off topic but do you know some of the other items they stock? I noticed they sell phosphorus trichloride so with any luck they may even sell P2O5 or even phosporus itself... Previously they required an "end user certificate" for some of the chemicals (like acetic andhydride, diethyl ether, and toluene) but since the site has been updated it seems as though this is no longer the case :P
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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 11:55


Rooto is my brand of choice when it comes to hardware store acid. 92%+ with no detergents, dyes, or other shit...There may be something, though, as it has a yellow tint to it. I use it primarily for nitrations with potassium and ammonium nitrate as the nitric source, and have never had a problem with it. ~$9USD/quart, not sure if it's available overseas.



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[*] posted on 24-3-2008 at 23:47


I also use Rooto for (fairly) dry acidifications and for nitrations. It is definitely far from pure though, fairly dark yellow/brown in color and I would love to know what the impurities are. Does anyone have any idea? Perhaps iron from the manufacturing process equipment or something?

I used to be able to find it by the gallon at a local hardware store but it is getting harder to find all the time. I wouldn't count on it being readily available for long.

[Edited on 25-3-2008 by kilowatt]




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[*] posted on 25-3-2008 at 22:32


Quote:
Originally posted by kilowatt
I also use Rooto for (fairly) dry acidifications and for nitrations. It is definitely far from pure though, fairly dark yellow/brown in color and I would love to know what the impurities are. Does anyone have any idea? Perhaps iron from the manufacturing process equipment or something? [Edited on 25-3-2008 by kilowatt]


Sulfuric acid reacts with organic compounds like sugar, starch, paper, wood, textiles, etc. to give carbon and sulfuric acid hydrates, so impure sulfuric acid can be brownish to even black due to the organic contaminants. But it should not be yellow.
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[*] posted on 25-3-2008 at 23:19


It is brownish, which is not too far from yellowish. I would consider brown a better description. Where would it have picked up such contaminants? It is made in steel equipment and put into a PE or PP bottle.



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[*] posted on 25-3-2008 at 23:31


As I understand, drain cleaner often is spent industrial acid
so it would have had plenty of opportunity to be contaminated
with all sorts of stuff depending on its use. After all, why
dump fresh acid down a drain?
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[*] posted on 26-3-2008 at 06:46


I keep seeing people say that about drain cleaner acid, yet that doesn't fit with what I've read in several books on industrial waste management.

The main generators of waste H2SO4 are the "pickling" of metals to remove oxides and such, and from petroleum refining. In the first case the acid solution contains metals sulfates and organics. Concentration of the solution results in much of the sulfates crystallising out, after which the remaining solution can be diluted and used again for pickling because the metal sulfates remaining in solution cause no harm.

The petroleum refining waste acid contains a lot of organics, both sulfated and polymerised. It ranges in appearance from something like dark molasses to an even thicker sludge, and is not even 80% acid anymore. It is too full of tar-like organics to pour down the drain, likely to increase clogging. It is usually burned to oxidise the organics and convert the acid and organic sulfate into SO2, which is used to make fresh H2SO4. In some cases it is sprayed into sulfide "burners" where it both decomposes and partially replaces ordinary fuel used for the heating.

So if you've a reference for the use of waste acid as drain cleaner, I'd love to see it. The amount of iron and organics in the drain cleaner I've encountered isn't very high, it doesn't take much to give a strong brown colouration to the acid.
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