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Author: Subject: Solvent ideas needed.
YT2095
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Solvent ideas needed.

I have some large sheets of Polarised film, but there is a clear adhesive on the one side that I want to remove.

I expect that the material is some form of Cellulose (probably Acetate).

Ive tried WD-40 and that does nothing (it Normally works).
I tried acetone and the adhesive turn to gel almost instantly BUT it ruins the film also.
Ive tried Ligroin and that doesnt touch it either.
ethanol works a Little bit, but leaves it Very messy.

any one have any ideas or have done this before?

edited to add: I just tried Toluene and that works exactly the same as the acetone and ruins the film too.

Im hoping there may be an Inorganic method as Im running out of known solvents that I have in stock.

[Edited on 1-3-2008 by YT2095]

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
chemrox
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MIBK has worked for me on similar substances

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YT2095
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Hmmmm... I have non of that, not even a trace.
the closest I have as denaturing agent is MEK in a bottle off "pure" ethanol.

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
vulture
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Isopropyl alcohol might be the best of both worlds. Or some higher alcohol. Diethyl ether?

[Edited on 1-3-2008 by vulture]

One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
YT2095
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aha, Good ideas!

I have some Pre-Injection mediwipes that contain the IPA, and the Ethers off site in the Machine shop (where Im going tomorrow morning anyway).

Ill let you know

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
lavenatti
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I hate to suggest something so simple, but how about soapy water and a good scrubbing? You'll probably end up with a bunch of little rolled up adhesive balls but if the soap keeps the adhesive from resticking to the film it may work.
Tacho
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I have succesfully removed adhesive coats from plastic surfaces using one of two techniques:

1- Soybean oil - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
2- I cut a piece of adhesive tape and do a repeated apply/remove on the surface. Somewhat as if you were depilating it. With some skill and luck, all the adhesive end up on the tape, leaving the plastic surface clean and undamaged.

Good luck.
MagicJigPipe
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"I have some Pre-Injection mediwipes that contain the IPA, and the Ethers off site in the Machine shop (where Im going tomorrow morning anyway)."

Any 24-hr gas station will have at least 70%
IPA and almost any grocery, Wal-Mart, pharmacy type store will carry the 91% and/or 100%. I suppose my question is, why even think about using alcohol pads?

EDIT
I forgot you might live in Europe and I'm not sure what kind of stores are open when in your area but still, IPA IMO is one of the most common and easy to get chemicals (as easy as 3% H2O2)

[Edited on 3-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
YT2095
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Ive never seen IPA here OTC other than in 25ml overpriced tape-head cleaner bottles.

and the soap or oils have no effect, also I didnt manage to get to the machine shop yesterday to get the Ether, so Im still hanging some hopes on that.

as for scrubbing, its a No Go as its Optical film and even plastic on plastic will scratch it (as I found out).

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
bio2
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.......I expect that the material is some form of Cellulose (probably Acetate)...........

Nitroalkanes are solvents for Cellulose Acetate.
YT2095
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and so thats Something I would wish to avoid (since dissolving the Film is NOT the intention), which is just as well because I dont have any anyway

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
MagicJigPipe
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I can buy OTC 91% IPA (or 99% or 100% w/ 1% oil) here in bulk and will gladly send it to you (or anyone else on this forum) at cost + shipping. It's not about the money, just helping the cause. Does anyone know if it's hazmat since it's flammable? Maybe a lower concentration (70%?) wouldn't be.

Buying it from a supplier might be cheaper because of shipping but if it isn't, let me know.

91% is \$1.50 (.99 Euros or .76 pounds)(probably a little less for bulk) for 16oz (473mL). You can judge the weight by the density + thin HDPE bottle.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
vulture
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Any pharmacist in europe should be able to get you IPA, as it's used for desinfection. If you're afraid they'll charge too much, take a copy of your favourite chemical suppliers catalog along and have them order the cheapest IPA in there.

One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
MagicJigPipe
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A pharmacist ordering chemicals from a catalog for a private individual? I'm almost positive that 99% of the time if that were tried in the US they would respond with an impolite "No!". Even for something as mundane as isopropanol. First of all they would ask, "Why do you need something more pure than the IPA on the shelves?" And you might as well forget trying to order anything else.

One time I tried to order benzoic acid USP and they told me it was a CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE (prescription only).

Even benzyl alcohol was a pain to get from a pharmacy (and insanely expensive).

If it wasn't for the stupid gun laws I would move to Europe.

EDIT
And the US used to be the place where people came to experience MORE personal freedoms. Now, sadly, it is the opposite.

[Edited on 3-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
woelen

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MagicJigPipe, it is not useful to compare your situation with our situation. In the EU (at least in NL, UK, BE and DE) I have not seen IPA in pure form or only mixed with water as an OTC chemical. Of course we can buy it, but then we need to order it from a pharmacist or a better equipped old-fashioned drug-store.

And yes, many of us can order chemicals from a chemical supplier. I have a local drugstore nearby, who orders chemicals from chemical suppliers, which normally does not sell to private individuals. In this way I obtained NaN3, KF, and a few other nasties, which I otherwise could not get.

There really is a difference in what is OTC in one country and in another country. Pure diethylether is OTC over here, just like pure acetone and ligroin, but IPA is not, nor is methanol (but in BE, methanol is OTC as well).

EU != USA

Even in different countries inside the EU there are differences, e.g. in NL I cannot buy more than 5% ammonia, in BE I can get 12% in a supermarket.

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argyrium
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YT2095,

You might try mineral spirits (aka "paint thinner") or kerosene - possibly "mixed" with a small amount of a polar solvent (2-propanol, EtOH). If the adhesive absorbs enough and swells sufficiently, you may be able to "roll" it off. You might try letting the adhesive imbibe/swell to the point where it becomes mobile, then transfer/submerge the sheet to a tray filled with water. Wet a soft cotton cloth with the non-polar solvents and rub the adhesive off THROUGH the water. The water should help keep the gooey mess from transferring onto the clean side and all over everything. Likely need to use many pieces of cloth (or paper towels) - and gloves. A few drops of detergent added to the water may help, too.

Hope this works.

PS - IF the above works, you will likely still have a real mess that would/will require further cleaning with more of the same solvents after removal from the water bath. A final clean-up with a lighter hydrocarbon blend ("naptha", "lighter fluid") on paper towels should help.

[Edited on 4-3-2008 by argyrium]
JohnWW
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The isopropyl alcohol sold in hardware or similar stores as "rubbing alcohol" is usually only the distilled stuff containing only about 70% of the stuff, and 30% water, because of the isopropanol-water constant-boiling-point azeotrope. Purer isopropanol is more expensive, probably obtained by a further distillation with benzene, like absolute ethanol. It is used widely as a substitute for 95% grain alcohol (without denaturing additives), because of the heavy excise tax on the latter in most countries.

[Edited on 4-3-08 by JohnWW]
-jeffB
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 Quote: Originally posted by JohnWW The isopropyl alcohol sold in hardware or similar stores as "rubbing alcohol" is usually only the distilled stuff containing only about 70% of the stuff, and 30% water, because of the isopropanol-water constant-boiling-point azeotrope. Purer isopropanol is more expensive, probably obtained by a further distillation with benzene, like absolute ethanol.

In the US it's common to find "91%" (by volume) isopropanol. This is presumably the azeotrope, which is actually 87% IPA and 13% water:

http://www.shellchemicals.com/alcohols/1,1098,1089,00.html#2...

I seem to remember that diluting the mix to 70% IPA by volume makes it less flammable and less harsh on the skin, but 91% is still widely available.

I ran a fractionation of 70% IPA to try out my distillation setup. There were no surprises, the vapor temperature behaved as I expected, and the product burned like "91%" IPA, but I didn't do any density or other measurements to verify my results.

Wikipedia says the industrial processes for anhydrous IPA use cyclohexane or diisopropyl ether as azeotroping agents.
YT2095
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the medi-swab IPA doesnt work, nor does Paraffin ( a Kerosene analog).

maybe the IPA was too pure or something? as for the Paraffin, I didnt really expect that would work anyway since WD-40 didnt touch it either.

\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
chemrox
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I find 99% in the pharmacy in 750 ml bottles as "isopropyl alcohol." We use it in the alcohol lamp. My wife goes through a bottle every two months or so. This is in the US; home of controls.

"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
Saerynide
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Theres a petroleum based solvent product here in the US and Canada called "Goo Gone". It's yellowish and comes in a clear bottle and smells like orange/citrus. Maybe they have it in the UK too?

It works wonders in removing sticky plastic glue from labels, tape, and what have you. So far, it hasn't hurt my plastic, but I always still test with a small patch first.

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pantone159
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 Quote: Originally posted by Saerynide It's yellowish and comes in a clear bottle and smells like orange/citrus.

limonene??
Saerynide
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Hmmm.. I never thought of that. The label says its petroleum based, but I guess there could be probably a lot of limonene in there too.

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MagicJigPipe
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 Quote: Theres a petroleum based solvent product here in the US and Canada called "Goo Gone". It's yellowish and comes in a clear bottle and smells like orange/citrus. Maybe they have it in the UK too?

I remember it being mostly xylenes. Of course there has to be something that makes it yellow and citrus-smelling.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
unionised
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IPA OTC in UK
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=isopropyl&s...
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Miscellaneous » Solvent ideas needed. Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues