MagicJigPipe
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I Have Ethyl Acetate and KI
I'm thinking about buying potassium iodide in bulk and selling it (repackaged in smaller amounts) via Ebay or to established members of this forum.
It would be an honest sell with correct shipping prices. No fancy packaging as it will just be technical grade (Probably in something like a mason
jar).
I am curious, what would everyone consider to be a fair price for technical grade KI? $80/kg? $60/kg? $50/kg? And how many would be interested in
buying it?
(I suppose this would be mainly for the purpose of making I2 or HI since it is technically a "low grade".)
[Edited on 24-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
[Edited on 25-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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bio2
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Alfa/Aesar, Their prices are usually competitive.
Item #A12704
Potassium iodide, 99%
Order Size Price Availability
50g 11.80 Yes
250g 24.60 Yes
1kg 87.60 Yes
5kg 378.00 Yes
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MagicJigPipe
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What about ethyl acetate technical grade? Say, $15-$20 a gallon plus shipping (shipping would be honest and not jacked up).
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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YT2095
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to be Honest, I think I would consider selling in Smaller amounts too 500g and 250g.
some of us here (myself included), don`t buy Anything in large Kg amounts as everything experimental is done in small scale.
in fact I don`t have 1Kg of Any particular chem, and most are in 100g to 500g amounts (with the exception of Photography chems and I think I have a
Kilo of Hypo).
it may be worth considering 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Fleaker
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I'd probably buy various things. I'd rather have NaI than KI...more bang for your buck iodine content wise.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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YT2095
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Fleaker
I'd probably buy various things. I'd rather have NaI than KI...more bang for your buck iodine content wise. |
LOL, Funny you should say that, but it`s Exactly the same reason that swung my decision to buy LiBr instead of KBr 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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woelen
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I do not fully agree with this. Li ions have their own peculiarities and if I want to do something with bromide, then I only want sodium or potassium
ions besides the bromide.
I do have LiBr, but that is for other reasons, such as a very strong drying agent and it dissolves in some organics as well.
Coming back to the original topic, KI and NaI also are somewhat different in practical situations. NaI dissolves in some arganics, while KI does not.
I agree with YT2095 that selling smaller quantities than 1 kg or 1 gallon would be a nice option. Many people work on a microscale (I also do) and 1
kg would be more than a lifetime supply for me.
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YT2095
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I Totally agree with the above, and I also use mine as a desicant on occasion, but as far as Br content by salt mass, LiBr is as good as it gets as
far as safely and usability as simple salt.
although I will needlessly avoid Sodium salts most of the time, I think it`s just a hangover from old Pyro days where Sodium = BAD! (for colors).
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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evil_lurker
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Figure on about $3-5 worth of fees for each Ebay sale once paypal is factored in... not to mention associated business overhead costs.
Also keep in mind that the DEA may wish to investigate large amounts of KI purchased, and you will need at bare minimum a business license and
possibly incorporate before most distributors will deal with you.
You will have to buy ethyl acetate by the truckload to be able to resell it anywhere near what your wanting to sell it for. Figure on a fair price of
about $40-50 per gallon. If you sell ethyl acetate in gallons it then is considered Hazmat so you will have to deal with becoming certified to ship.
There is a whole heck of a lot to selling chemicals. More than half of their cost usually goes towards nothing more than packaging, overhead, and red
tape.
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.
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MagicJigPipe
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40-50 a gallon? Well, I already have 5 gals anf I can tell you I could get by selling it for 20-30 easy. Also, the DEA has no right to interview me
for purchasing KI. If they do, I'll show them my stock and say I'm reselling and "No, I don't have any records nor will I fabricate any".
I don't think KI is as "restricted" as you think.
Also, NaI is more expensive even when the extra I- is factored in. I'm sure this has to do with the fact that
KI is much more widely used ("radiation pills", salt, vitamins, aqariums etc...). Unfortunately, I don't have a source of NaI at a decent price.
[Edited on 24-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
[Edited on 24-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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The_Davster
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You also might consider marketing as antiradiation iodide. However I am not sure if that opens you to legal problems if it is technical and not food
grade.
I also agree with others in terms of amounts. 50g, 100g, 250g, 500g are good ammounts, and the smaller sizes means you can charge slightly higher
prices. I only order over 250g if no smaller size is available.
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kilowatt
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| Quote: |
Also, the DEA has no right to interview me for purchasing KI. If they do, I'll show them my stock and say I'm reselling and "No, I don't have any
records nor will I fabricate any". |
The DEA has no right to do many of the things they do, yet they do them regardless. The same goes for many government agencies. I would not be so
quick to believe you are safe from investigation, raids, or other abuses if you buy KI. They know it can be made into iodine and I would be surprised
if they did not keep an eye on it, regardless of its actual legal status. Telling them it's for resale doesn't take the blame off you one bit either
unless you can show them documentation of every purchase. Even without any right to demand such records, they can and may demand them anyway with
numerous threats, which I would not be so quick to dismiss as baseless. If someone buys something from you and gets in trouble with it, it is you the
government will come after (and nail) unless you are thoroughly lawyered up. You don't have to be doing anything illegal to get treated as if you
were. Look what happened to United Nuclear. I recall another person bought copious amounts of KNO3 (admittedly way more than anyone should be
storing in a residential area, but that's not my point) for resale on ebay and such, and the authorities raided him on suspicions despite KNO3's legal
status. For those of you who don't believe anything that happens without numerous sitings, sorry I forgot his name, but I found it on one of the news
sites.
If I were you and wished to do this, I would come up with an excuse for having it that sounds more legitimate than just "so I can resell it to people
who have no official credentials" or just make sure the authorities never find out you have it in the first place (which is more what I do with my
chemicals, listed or not). If you resell it you are likely safer doing it illegally and covertly than legally and in the open where all the prying
eyes can see. I would consider labeling it as some other innocuous granulated chemical (sodium chloride, potassium chloride, boric acid, sodium
bromide, etc) while shipping.
I know a lot of you here don't believe a thing you read, but it's a fact of modern American life that people get raided for the stupidest things,
entirely regardless of declared laws or rights. Many times declaring your rights to an officer or government agent will get you nothing other than a
good beating or tasering. If it could remotely be construed as suspicious by anyone, you're safest to do it secretly. Just because you are an
unlicensed individual the DEA and the like are already suspicious of you if they see you, and will view you as guilty until proven innocent. Just my
two cents worth.
That being the case I have my doubts that they would really raise an eyebrow at a 1kg sale (they very well might, though) but I suspect larger orders
from a public site would be looked upon with suspicion, and there would be knocks at the door. If you did manage to get some while avoiding the
watchful eye of the DEA I would be glad to buy maybe 1kg. Iodine is a rare element and is not getting any easier to obtain, so I would personally
consider it a bit pointless to buy only a small amount. I have a total of maybe 500g of iodine mostly in salt form (and some elemental) now and I
really feel it is inadequate because it will be so hard to ever get more. I prefer to keep all my chemicals in sizeable quantities, with the idea
that they may never be available again and will have to last me a long time (possibly the rest of my life). I am always careful to recycle the less
common elements in my collection as well as the less easily produced ions, and like to be prepared to produce virtually every reagent myself.
The mind cannot decide the truth; it can only find the truth.
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MagicJigPipe
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Oh yes, I believe everything you say. I know all that from personal experience.
"I prefer to keep all my chemicals in sizeable quantities, with the idea that they may never be available again and will have to last me a long time
(possibly the rest of my life)."
That is a very GOOD idea. Remember, what seems like a mundane chemical with thousands of legitimate industrial and commercial uses might become
regulated and controlled to the point to where the prices become prohibitively high.
Nitrates are next (as discussed on this board) and nobody believed they would be.
Solvents such as toluene and acetone are after that IMO. Already, on a catalogue from my local "chemical supply store" they changed toluene's and
acetone's status to "Bussinesses Only" when, in the past, anyone could go in and purchase 5-55 gallons (~20-220L).
I think it's time that the "microscale" experimenters start increasing their supplies of certain reagents if they wish to continue practicing home
chemistry unimpeded.
ATTENTION / ACHTUNG / ATENCIÓN / 注意
/ внимание / ATTENZIONE / AANDACHT / ATENÇÃO / OPPMERKSOMHET
Contact me via PM if you wish to obtain some cheap technical grade ethyl acetate (Preferably US only, contrary to the international title but if you
can convince me it's safe then I'll do it). A good distillation and drying should improve the purity greatly if that is a concern. I'm in the
process of checking what quanities I can ship while avoiding HAZMAT fees.
Anyone w/ equipment willing to do an assay for me to post?
[Edited on 24-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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LSD25
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I am happily suprised at the amount of ethyl acetate that can be got from the local large supermarket chains high-end own brand non-acetone nailpolish
remover.
The ingredients listed on the label of the 250mL PP bottle of pinkish liquid, are:
Ethyl Acetate, Alcohol Denat, Water, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Denatonium Benzoate
Suprisingly enough, when you add CaCl2 to this bottle, you will immediately notice the salting out of a dense layer in which the previously
undissolved excess CaCl2 slowly dissolves. Shake the shit out of it then allow to sit, separate and discard the 30-40mL in this layer.
Set up for simple distillation, approx 190-200mL comes over between 70-75C (so it still contains some ethanol which I have no idea how to remove
without serious fucking around - but I cannot see any possible use of this where the inclusion of some EtOH would be seriously problematic).
Discard the 20-30mL of almost reddish, thick liquid remaining in the pot - it contains the long-chain components, the colouring, etc.
Given the price of this stuff, this actually works out a good deal cheaper than purchasing the pure-ish solvent, without any need to pay Hazchem
charges on shipping (and I'd say 95-99% of Australians live within an easy drive of one of these stores), at say less than $5/approx 200mL per 250mL
bottle, this equates to <$25/L.
Anybody got a useful suggestion for removing the EtOH from the now clear, volatile liquid? I recall that CaCl2 forms a complex with lower alcohols,
but I have not been able to find out much about the behaviour of the complex.
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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MagicJigPipe
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Seems like a lot of trouble for such a cheap solvent that I was able to purchase by the 5 gallon jug with just a few phone calls. The purity is
supposed to be > 98%. Either that's 98% EtOAc/EtOH/Acetic acid and then 2% water or EtOAc + 2% of all impurities. Either way it's well worth the
price if not just for the amount of EtOH and acetate that can be obtained from it (free of MeOH). I wouldn't drink the EtOH from it but technically,
you should be able too...
I mean, your method probably costs at least $1.50 plus energy and time costs per ~200mL. Let's just say my price is an order of magnitude less. I
also don't think it is a HAZMAT item in liter amounts.
I am excited. Apparently this supplier has another office about 150 miles away. THEY might still sell DCM! I'm going to call this morning to find
out. If they do I will be a happy man. Hell, if I thought I could sell it I would buy a 55gal drum (after you pay the deposit on the drum you can
get it filled over and over without paying for the drum).
[Edited on 4-23-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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LSD25
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I (and others) live in semi-rural areas, we have limited access to solvents (or anything else) in any event - that plus the fact that the price of
EtOAc here, from a reputable supplier, is minimum AU$35+ means that this is entirely feasible and a fucking good option. If only I could be sure that
the CaCl2 would form a non-volatile complex with EtOH then I could probably strip the EtOH from the semi-pure EtOAc just by adding excess CaCl2 after
separating the layers, then distilling (thus leaving the Ca-Cl-EtOH complex with the fatty acids, the colouring, etc.).
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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Nicodem
Super Moderator
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Just add CaCl2 to your "semi-pure EtOAc", stir for half an hour, decant and distill.
If you don't leave the CaCl2*xEtOH in the distillation flask than no xEtOH can distill over with your ethyl acetate. Pretty logical, isn't it?
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LSD25
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That is precisely what I was looking for, thanks - I had no idea whether filtration or decanting would remove the complex, it is fucking hard to find
any details on the nature of that particular complex (I was also pretty fucking worried as to whether or not it was soluble in EtOAc).
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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MagicJigPipe
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I thought most people would assume my area is rural by default. The metro area only has a population of 800,000 or so. There are absolutely no lab
chemical suppliers in my area but there are 20-30 industrial suppliers. I can only assume any area with a paint/coatings or graphic arts industry
would have an industrial supplier, no?
It truly does suck that the only "non-OTC" source of chemicals I have in the immediate area is this solvent supplier. These are the only chemicals I
have access to locally. I am still shocked and appalled that they sold me 5 gallons of toluene.
BTW, when you buy toluene from the hardware store you are getting ripped a new one. The price is at least 3x what it's worth.
[Edited on 4-23-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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LSD25
Hazard to Others
Posts: 239
Registered: 29-11-2007
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Yup, but jumping through the number of hoops necessary in this fuckwit of a place is not to my taste. Enamel thinner just ain't that dear, it ain't a
problem to source and it is a no-brainer to find. Given shipping costs, I prefer local products over external suppliers, what I'd make up on the
swings I'd lose on the roundabouts (to mangle an old saying). The difference in price would have to be seriously high for me to even consider it,
especially considering that distillation is necessary no matter which one I get.
Whhhoooppps, that sure didn't work
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soxhlet
Harmless
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KI is a distribution concern. One needn't be concerned about being raided. One should be quite wary of selling to a person who uses it to produce
I2. Manfacture of a listed chemical is a violation of US controlled substance laws.
Anyone who sells a chemical (or glassware, or damn near anything) while having a reason to suspect that it will be used in to commit a crime can be
indicted for conspiracy.
If anyone doubts the potential criminal liability for advertising pre-precursors in internet forums, do a good search on Science Alliance. Strike got
hammered for selling totally legal chemicals.
[Edited on 30-4-2008 by soxhlet]
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Okay, fuck it. No KI. More for me
[Edited on 4-30-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
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Okay, this is my last attempt to help everyone out and make a little money at the same time. DCM is expensive and not so easy to get "pure", right?
I found a place locally that will sell me DCM in a 55 gallon drum for an EXCELLENT price. As in, I'll probably be able to sell it for at most half
the regular online price.
What I'm trying to do is find one thing that people want so I don't have to deal with the hassles of stocking a whole bunch of chemicals.
If enough people show interest in DCM, I shall go buy the drum (credit, of course )
Moderators, can I make this a new topic?
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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chemrox
International Hazard
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"One should be quite wary of selling to a person who uses it to produce I2. Manfacture of a listed chemical is a violation of US controlled substance
laws."
Why would anyone suspect such a thing? Unless someone writes and says, "dear mr. magicjigpipe sir, I want some of your KI so I can make I2." Not
bloody likely. Sign me up for a couple of pounds.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
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Yeah, really. I have absolutely no intention of selling KI for the purposes of using it for I2 to make methamphetamine.
I know that doesn't matter but, just to be clear, if I knew anyone was using it for that purpose, I would not sell it to them.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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