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ScienceGeek
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I know this doesn't fall under "Strange uses for energetic materials", but I'll say it anyway.
What I think is quite extreme, is that they coated the Hinderburg (German Zeppelin) with Thermite paint!
Yeah, that's right: they actually made a paint (coating) of fine aluminum powder and Iron Oxide.
I just find it extremely odd that no- one seemed to consider it a potential fire- hazard, especially as Thermite was patented in 1895 (Wikipedia), and
the Hindenburg incident was in 1937.
Mythbusters declared the myth that the Thermite coating contributed to the burn- rate: BUSTED, but still...
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ScienceGeek
What I think is quite extreme, is that they coated the Hinderburg (German Zeppelin) with Thermite paint! |
SG, We may be talking about separate incidents; in case we're not, we'll agree to disagree.
Either substance on an airship lofted by H2 is obviously a disaster in the making!
And people still put aluminium paint onto rusted steel, even in places where there's a fire-danger!
In those old days, though, the ignitibility of these substances wasn't generally well known.
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microcosmicus
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| Quote: |
In those old days, though, the ignitibility of these substances wasn't generally well known.
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In that time and place (1930's Germany), the flammability of thermite was quite well
known since it was commonly used in welding. More likely, what happened was that
it never occurred to the paint mixer that the composition of his pigment happened to
be a thermite mixture.
I once saw a documentary where someone went through the old records of the
Zeppelin airship company and found documents from the internal investigation
following the accident where it was noted that the pain was flammable but
suppressed this information so as not to jeopardize the chances of collecting
insurance. (Not to mention what an irate Fuehrer might have done to the doofuses
who embarassed the fatherland in the eyes of the world by painting an airship
with thermite.)
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | Originally posted by microcosmicus
| Quote: |
In those old days, though, the ignitibility of these substances wasn't generally well known.
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In that time and place (1930's Germany), the flammability of thermite was quite well
known since it was commonly used in welding. |
OK, well known, but not generally well known!
Don't forget, thermite is ignited only with difficulty; just putting a match to it won't start the reaction.
And flammable doesn't describe thermite since it contains nothing that normally burns in atmospheric oxygen, and it contains no carbon compounds.
It's ignitible and deflagrating, but you can't call the mixture flammable.
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ScienceGeek
Yeah, that's right: they actually made a paint (coating) of fine aluminum powder and Iron Oxide.
I just find it extremely odd that no- one seemed to consider it a potential fire- hazard. |
'Kinda hard, anyway, to see how thermite would reach its ignition temp of ~1550*C (m.p. of iron) on an airship, by anything short of a direct
lightning strike!
I don't buy it!
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ScienceGeek
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What is it that you don't buy? It is a fact that they coated the Hindenburg with thermite paint!
I'm not saying that the Thermite paint caused the fire, merely that it's a strange composition to use as paint...
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Formatik
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Nitroglycerin as a therapeutic (it dilates the veins and arteries)!:
http://www.kmhk.kmu.edu.tw/medhome/Intra_med/med_o/search/im...
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Pulverulescent
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ScienceGeek
I just find it extremely odd that no- one seemed to consider it a potential fire- hazard, especially as Thermite was patented in 1895.
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Calling it a fire-hazard would suggest you considered it as a possible culprit, as indeed I did, but of course, H2 ignites at a third of the temp
thermite does.
Paint with Al and Fe203 is still manufactured, BTW!
Al paint on steel is very dangerous, because a sharp blow of steel on Al-painted steel produces a very bright, hot spark, and fires have been
triggered in this way.
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ScienceGeek
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No, I don't consider it a possible culprit, but I do think it contributed to a certain extent to the fire, once started.
Do they paint modern Zeppelins with Al/Fe2O3 paint?
I don't get your statement on Aluminum on steel...how is that relevant?
I think we're just splitting straws here 
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Pulverulescent
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Yes SG, you're right, we are splitting hairs, but the reason, I think, the paint wasn't considered a fire-hazard is because it couldn't have been a
fire-hazard, when you think about it.
The hydrogen in the airship would have burned quite quickly.
The paint couldn't possibly have contributed anything, IMO.
I mentioned the Al being painted on steel simply because most people see nothing wrong with it, despite the (obvious) dangers.
(Lead-based paint might be more appropriate in the case of Zeppelins).
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ScienceGeek
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OK Pulverulescent...let's leave it at that. Splitting hairs is a waste of time 
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497
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Hydrazine sulfate, pretty close to hydrazine that's used in things like Astrolite and rocket fuel, has been used as an effective cancer treatment.
Funny, all that time I though hydrazine was toxic!
http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/
[Edited on 8-4-2008 by 497]
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Pulverulescent
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Just one more hair/straw, perhaps!
The point (and it may be a minor one) I was trying to make, ScienceGeek, was that the assumption that thermite paint is hazardous in all situations
doesn't seem to bear scrutiny.
You say potaato, I say potayto!
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Pulverulescent
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So anyway, these interesting materials kill--- *and* cure.
Kinda' schizoid!
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grndpndr
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| Quote: | Originally posted by crazyboy
Explosives are sometimes placed on top of a large metal plate which is placed on another metal plate when the explosive detonates the pressure and
force weld the flat parts together; an effect impossible with conventional methods.
http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/explosive-welding/explosiv... |
Wondering if this isn't the method used to 'weld'/bond dissimilar metals such as depleted Uranium/armor steel/other"secret'
materials into sheets of chobham or composite armor as youll notice composite armor is always angular in shape never does it have a curved surface.The
process must include other methods however as i understand chobham armor also contains ceramics to deal with HEAT charges and while reactive armor
will only defeat 1HEAT round per panel, COMPOSITE armor will defeat multiple hits in the same area from ATGMs w/HEAT warheads even the dual warhead
HEAT round.Fascnatingly imple process the example of it saw, the metal to be bonded/welded was placed on top f each other on a flat surfce a form was
built like a concrete form for a sidewalk several inches above the metal plates the excess powdered HE was screeded off similar to a concrete form and
an edge of the square was detonated resulting in a slightly curved plate. OFF topic but ww2 germn experiments tried to laminate dissimilar metals for
the same purpose super armored plate,less wieght more protection just as todays composite armor posseses
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Ramiel
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Originally posted by : grndpndr
rective armor
That qualifies as an unlikely use for explosive as protection against other explosve effects specifically the monroe effect of RPGs /ATGMs with whats
commonly referred to as reactive armor .In that the Armor made up of sections of thin steel armor sandwiched with insensitive HE in the middle and
attached to the vehicle armor thats to be upgraded in small sections.When struck by std HEAT charge the plate is penetrated detonating the HE .with
the now accelerating Reactive armor plate disrupting the HEAT jet.The now common way around this is dual heat warheads the first smaller warhead
detonating the reactive armor and the second HEAT charge detonating a split second later mitigating any effect on the second charge in the warhead.
even a small heat charge in my torso?!
Caveat Orator
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Pulverulescent
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Somehow, I don't think using one explosive device to defeat another comes into the category "Strange Uses".
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grndpndr
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No use in arguing perceptions. I would say ingenious never the less and not something that jumps to mind given the fact it took some 60 years to
devise.The simple fact it took that long for the finest armaments labs to find this apparently simple solution is enough a least for me to call it a
strange/definetly unique, use for an explosive.
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Pulverulescent
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Unique, yes, ingenious, certainly---wily old Ruskies!
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Liedenfrost
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Argon Flash
I'm actually trying to find more data on ''argon flash'' at the moment but basically a vessel filled with argon gas and a small amount of a solid
explosive produces such a bright flash in the UV spectrum and as well as visible on detonation that it is used to photograph explosive events.
wikipedia has a bit of info on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon_flash
This is my first post.
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-=HeX=-
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Liedenfrost
I'm actually trying to find more data on ''argon flash'' at the moment but basically a vessel filled with argon gas and a small amount of a solid
explosive produces such a bright flash in the UV spectrum and as well as visible on detonation that it is used to photograph explosive events.
wikipedia has a bit of info on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argon_flash
This is my first post. |
Liedenfrost: I have quite a lot of info about such devices, my email is lordi--101@hotmail.com and i am working on an xenon based variant at the
moment.
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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grndpndr
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Does ths method produce a single frame at the momet of detonation or are several frames able to be made with the proper camera?
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-=HeX=-
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I am not sure about the photography bit, I am developing my system as a non lethal blinding weapon with wide effects. Think of a giant flashbang
grenade :p and you will get it. I imagine it would be very effective against aircraft to blind the pilot. An improvised variant involves a ball of
cast ETN with loads of the flash tubes from disposable cameras embedded into it as xenon works better than argon.
If you give a man a match he will be warm for a moment. Set him alight and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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hashashan
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How about MEKP as polystyrene resin hardener... now is that weired or what?
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12AX7
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Perhaps, but only as weird as benzoyl peroxide and etc.
Considering the safer alternatives, it does seem kind of odd though. Is it that it must be reactive enough?
Tim
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