| Pages:
1
2 |
hq02v
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sourcing Ethyl Acetate?
Hello, I am looking for advice on sourcing Ethyl Acetate.
It seems Lowe's/HomeDepot no longer stock 1gal cans of "M.E.K substitute"(Ethyl Acetate)
And local hardware stores, if any only have a quart or two left from "M.E.K substitute" from before it was discontinued.
Also the Non-Acetone nail polish removers now often do not contain Ethyl Acetate like before, and if I manage to find a MSDS for a brand that contains
Ethyl Acetate(60℅+) the retailer requires a Nail Salon registration or cosmetic student I.D to purchase.
Does anyone have any suggestions? The prices per liter via ebay/Amazon and etc are ridiculous for something that use to be available by the gallon at
Lowe's/HomdDepot
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by hq02v  | | Also the Non-Acetone nail polish removers now often do not contain Ethyl Acetate like before, and if I manage to find a MSDS for a brand that contains
Ethyl Acetate(60℅+) the retailer requires a Nail Salon registration or cosmetic student I.D to purchase. |
I
always find bans/restrictions concerning common solvents like this ridiculous. I just wanna sneer those lawmakers and these idiotic laws
PS me not american, can't help sry
|
|
|
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Ethyl acetate isn't banned or restricted. They change the formulations of OTC products from time to time as safety standards change.
|
|
|
Dr.Bob
International Hazard
Posts: 2656
Registered: 26-1-2011
Location: USA - NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Where are you located? Sometimes there are good sources, but they are highly localized. There is at least one place in NC that I think still sells
it, but might not help in other states. Someone near OK was talking about a place there that sells damaged freight that might have had some.
|
|
|
AvBaeyer
National Hazard
Posts: 644
Registered: 25-2-2014
Location: CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Easily found on ebay or amazon. I get mine from Sierra Chemicals via ebay. It is of very high quality.
AvB
|
|
|
Funkerman23
Hazard to Others
Posts: 416
Registered: 4-1-2012
Location: Dixie
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Since when is Ethyl acetate on the watched list? Did I miss something? I'll do a check at my local stor tomorow and see whats available. Ever since I
started my Undergrad, I feel like I fell off the face of the earth , here.
" the Modern Chemist is inundated with literature"-Unknown
|
|
|
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It's not. A brand of M.E.K. substitute changed their formula. That's all.
|
|
|
hq02v
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.
|
|
|
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by hq02v |
Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.
|
What you're getting from the hardware store is the same thing you're getting from a chem supplier?
|
|
|
hq02v
Harmless
Posts: 3
Registered: 12-11-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Rogers | | Quote: Originally posted by hq02v |
Yes, I am aware of SierraChemicals on eBay and they're reputable quality but $40 for 1L is atrocious when it was available 3.7L for ~$20.
|
What you're getting from the hardware store is the same thing you're getting from a chem supplier?
|
Absolutely not, but tech grade vs lab grade is not a difference to justify a ~770% mark-up in price.
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Just a public service announcement: You really should use the "Location" field in your profile. If you're in the US, put your state, at least. In
other countries, put your province, region, or country. Whichever is responsible for your local laws. Otherwise, if you show up and ask where to buy
something OTC, we have no idea what stores you have access to or what the local laws/restrictions are. I don't know why some people seem to think
that posting their state or country is doxxing themselves. You have an entire state/country's worth of other people to hide among.
Incidentally, when you buy highly-flammable solvents online, most of the price you're paying is for hazmat shipping. You can also improve tech-grade
solvents by a grade or two just by distilling from silica gel or something similar.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Go to a beauty supply store and get the non-acetone nail polish remover. It should contain coloring, ethyl acetate, and a little bit of methanol.
Distill the ethyl acetate. Then to a water wash to remove the methano, then do a brine wash to remove any traces of water. If you need it really dry,
dry it with anhydrous potassium carbonate or molecular sieves 4A. A gallon costs about $30.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I found a cheap source of ethyl acetate in nail polish remover ... the ingredients are ethyl acetate, aqua, alcohol, ..., glycerol, triethanolamine,
...
So if I do a simple distillation at 70-80 C, I would expect a distillate mixture of ethyl acetate, alcohol and water right?
Would I expect the ethyl acetate to separate out into a separate layer even before the water/brine wash?
Strangely I dun see any separation in the orginal nail polish mixture even though there's significant water.
|
|
|
CouchHatter
Hazard to Others
Posts: 146
Registered: 28-10-2017
Location: yes
Member Is Offline
|
|
Just got a quart of Klean Strip MEK substitute at Home Depot for $10. Could not see it listed on their website; zero indication they carry it after
extensive searching. Sitting right there with the other solvents, though. I wouldn't write it off until you've visited a few branches of Lowe's and
Home Depot. The Klean Strip website is semi-helpful .
Beauty websites don't show what's available In the store. My local supplier says on the door "NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC". I got a gallon of non-acetone
polish remover for $20, but it has MEK and ethyl acetate whose difference in BP are 2.54 °C. Not very worthwhile
[Edited on 18-11-2018 by CouchHatter]
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by artemov | I found a cheap source of ethyl acetate in nail polish remover ... the ingredients are ethyl acetate, aqua, alcohol, ..., glycerol, triethanolamine,
...
So if I do a simple distillation at 70-80 C, I would expect a distillate mixture of ethyl acetate, alcohol and water right?
Would I expect the ethyl acetate to separate out into a separate layer even before the water/brine wash?
Strangely I dun see any separation in the orginal nail polish mixture even though there's significant water. |
The non-acetone nail polish remover at my local beauty supply store has only ethyl acetate, methanol, and coloring. Look at your label.
What I do is distill off the ethyl acetate, ethyl acetate and methanol will distill over. Then do 3 water washes. Then do a BRINE wash (this is
saturated kosher salt (pure salt) water solution, it will absorb almost all the water out of the ethyl acetate. That's it, now you have pure ethyl
acetate that you can dry further with molecular sieves 4A or anhydrous potassium carbonate or anhydrous epsom salt, then filter it off and store.
You don't see any separation in your original solution because ethyl acetate can dissolve up to 8% water.
[Edited on 19-11-2018 by beerwiz]
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by beerwiz |
The non-acetone nail polish remover at my local beauty supply store has only ethyl acetate, methanol, and coloring. Look at your label.
What I do is distill off the ethyl acetate, ethyl acetate and methanol will distill over. Then do 3 water washes. Then do a BRINE wash (this is
saturated kosher salt (pure salt) water solution, it will absorb almost all the water out of the ethyl acetate. That's it, now you have pure ethyl
acetate that you can dry further with molecular sieves 4A or anhydrous potassium carbonate or anhydrous epsom salt, then filter it off and store.
You don't see any separation in your original solution because ethyl acetate can dissolve up to 8% water.
[Edited on 19-11-2018 by beerwiz] |
I took a picture of the ingredients label, but I dunno how to attach pic ... but the ingredients are indeed ethyl acetate, (water)aqua, alcohol,
glycerine, triethanolamine, tocopheryl acetate, blue 1, red 33
Water is second most abundant here ... would the glycerine serves as some kind of "emulsfier" to prevent the ethyl acetate and water from separating?
|
|
|
beerwiz
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 6-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Most of your water will be removed during the brine wash, then you can dry it to 100% with the sieves or the epsom salt or K carbonate.
I wouldn't worry about the glycerine, it's boiling point is 290C, it will just remain in the boiling flask.
|
|
|
ninhydric1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 345
Registered: 21-4-2017
Location: Western US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bleached
|
|
Be careful, ethanol and ethyl acetate form an azeotrope that boils at 71.85 deg C, 69.2% EtOAc by weight. I highly recommend do a few water washings
before you actually distill so you don't have to perform multiple distillations; just distill all of the ethyl acetate at once.
The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.
|
|
|
artemov
Hazard to Others
Posts: 181
Registered: 22-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by ninhydric1 | | Be careful, ethanol and ethyl acetate form an azeotrope that boils at 71.85 deg C, 69.2% EtOAc by weight. I highly recommend do a few water washings
before you actually distill so you don't have to perform multiple distillations; just distill all of the ethyl acetate at once.
|
What's the aim of doing water washings before distillation? I thought AcOEt, EtOH and water form a ternary azeotrope.
|
|
|
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: Devils Anus
Member Is Offline
|
|
Hope I don't get any flack for reviving an old thread, but I have a tin can of the Klean Strip MEK substitute which is supposedly pure ethyl acetate,
but I always am a bit skeptical when it comes to the purity of chemicals from sources like this (eg: I had to process the toluene to get the
methylthiophene out of it so it wouldn't show up later and possibly tar or yellow up the reactions).
I get that for many of the use cases of ethyl acetate, whatever is in there is unlikely to impact the chemistry (especially since it's probably just
going to be used as a solvent). But removing any other substituents just removes any variables in case something goes wrong. Also... I like to make
the reagents/solvents I use as pure as I can, both for the purposes of having pure-ish chemicals and it's just a good exercise to learn.
Now even though the MSDS states that it's 100% Acetic acid, ethyl ester {Ethyl acetate}, from what I gather, sometimes they contain a bit of MeOH and/or
EtOH. And if that's the case, I would like to remove it and make it as pure as I can.
So from the suggestions in this thread, it seems the best way to purify it is to:
Washing with distilled water to get out any of the water soluble substituents. Separate out the water layer.
Brine wash to get any residual water out.
Dry it further with some drying agent, probably magnesium sulfate (This may make the brine wash step unnecessary).
Distill.
Does this seem like the proper process? Or does anyone have any other suggestions?
Also, is there a good way to determine the purity? I don't think the boiling point is the best because it can still distill over (from what I gather,
the boiling point wouldn't change much). So perhaps TLC? Though that would be a bit overkill, but maybe if I get some TLC plates in the future, this
would be a great way to practice running TLC analysis.
Thanks in advance..
[Edited on 23-5-2021 by SuperOxide]
[Edited on 23-5-2021 by SuperOxide]
|
|
|
karlos³
International Hazard
Posts: 1520
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline
Mood: oxazolidinic 8)
|
|
No thats ok like this, but in case of EtOAc you will want to do the brine wash definitely before you dry it.
Ethyl acetate can suck up quite a bit of water and that makes the brine wash really neccessary for a good dry final product.
Actually I would almost never skip the brine wash in case of an aqueous extraction, it pulls so much water out of the solvent before and that makes it
so useful.
With just drying agent you would require so much and if theres product in there, then the drying agent will suck some up too, etc...
Its only superfluous in cases of alkanes or aromatics, but for everything else it does wonders.
|
|
|
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: Devils Anus
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | No thats ok like this, but in case of EtOAc you will want to do the brine wash definitely before you dry it.
Ethyl acetate can suck up quite a bit of water and that makes the brine wash really neccessary for a good dry final product.
Actually I would almost never skip the brine wash in case of an aqueous extraction, it pulls so much water out of the solvent before and that makes it
so useful.
With just drying agent you would require so much and if theres product in there, then the drying agent will suck some up too, etc...
Its only superfluous in cases of alkanes or aromatics, but for everything else it does wonders. |
Ok, so the brine wash isn't as optional as I thought - Good to know. Thanks karlos³!
|
|
|
Amos
International Hazard
Posts: 1406
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline
Mood: No
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by CouchHatter | | Just got a quart of Klean Strip MEK substitute at Home Depot for $10. Could not see it listed on their website; zero indication they carry it after
extensive searching. Sitting right there with the other solvents, though. I wouldn't write it off until you've visited a few branches of Lowe's and
Home Depot. |
This has been my experience too, there are even extra cans up top in the stocking shelves, so I don't think they'll run out any time soon. If anyone
in the thread still can't find this product, the major US hardware stores are often stocking "Green" Denatured Alcohol, in which the only denaturant
of the ethanol is a large proportion of ethyl acetate. While these two are difficult to separate by traditional means, repeated brine washing or some
washing followed by distillation may work. The product straight out of the can is also a much more cost-effective starting material for preparing your
own ethyl acetate via esterification with cheap glacial acetic acid. Hope some of this helps.
|
|
|
karlos³
International Hazard
Posts: 1520
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline
Mood: oxazolidinic 8)
|
|
But if you have ethanol denatured with ethyl acetate, you can simply add base and distill the ethanol off from the formed acetate salt?
Ethyl acetate is in general actually a pretty good source for pretty low water containing undenatured ethanol.
|
|
|
SuperOxide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 486
Registered: 24-7-2019
Location: Devils Anus
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | | But if you have ethanol denatured with ethyl acetate, you can simply add base and distill the ethanol off from the formed acetate salt?
|
Wouldn't adding the base hydrolyse the ethyl acetate to form ethanol? (Got that idea from a Dougs Lab video)
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
