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Author: Subject: working with drums
CouchHatter
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 17:29
working with drums


I've recently acquired a 55 gal drum of ethanol. It is extremely heavy. I know that there are hydraulic machines that can hold and tip barrels for pouring, but I do not want one of those. I have worked with fuel transfer pumps before but those aren't really rated for a variety of liquids.

Are there any novel ways of working with large containers - to transfer small amounts to jugs? I can imagine a few but they all involve spillage. Maybe I'll build a teeter-totter.
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DavidJR
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 17:31


Put the drum on its side with the opening at the top. Remove the cap. Rolling the drum so that the opening is below the liquid level allows controlled removal of contents.
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Texium (zts16)
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 17:38


The safest and easiest option would be a lever or piston action drum-pump. Look up hand drum pump and you can find plenty of options for pretty cheap on Amazon and elsewhere.



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happyfooddance
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 17:54


I usually take a flask large enough to hold what I need, and put an adapter that accepts a tube and has a side barb for vacuum into the flask. A length of tubing (hdpe for me with most things) runs from the flask. Use as much as you need to reach the liquid in the drum. Pull a vacuum on the flask (aspirator o.k.) and place the tip of the tubing into the liquid in the drum. When you have removed the amount you need lift the tube out of the liquid, and remove vacuum and voila. I don't know if this makes sense but I can explain it more if you need better detail.
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 18:19


Grab a hose and a container that you want to fill with the ethanol, put the container beside the barrel so that its below the level of the ethanol in the barrel.
Either use your mouth or a aspirator to pull the ethanol through the hose so that it fills the hose all the way and then cover the end of the hose thats not in the barrel with your finger. Lower this end into the container you are filling ensuring that the end of the hose that is in the barrel is above the end of the hose with your finger over it and then let your finger off the end and watch the ethanol run over. Just before you have enough in your filling container, take the end of the hose thats in the barrel out of the ethanol.
Keep in mind that any ethanol still in the hose will run into your container and you run the risk of over filling it if your not careful.
This is the same technique used to siphon petrol out of a car, its also used alot in winemaking and it has an official name but i cant remember and am too busy to look it up right now.




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BromicAcid
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 19:09


Get a faucet with the proper thread for the drum. Buy a dispensing drum truck. Connect the faucet. When you need to dispense flip the drum on its side and use gravity, when you're done flip it back up again. If you want to preform the transfers inertly though you'll want to evaluate using nitrogen pressure to dispense your liquid. In all situations make sure you are grounded/bonded especially in the winter months and try to limit any solvents free-falling through the air.



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JJay
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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 21:24


You can get drum pumps at any auto parts store. You can also get siphons with priming bulbs at any auto parts store. Remember to make sure that you ground the container that you are filling. The flash point of ethanol is 16.6 C.





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[*] posted on 25-11-2018 at 23:14


I concur. A drum pump is your friend.
If you want to do it on the cheap, siphoning can be done easily with a piece of PVC tubing without having to suck on the end.
Long piece of tubing. Insert into the drum so that the tube gets filled with liquid. Place finger over the end to form a seal. Pull the tubing down the outside of the drum so that the end is lower than the level of the liquid in teh drum. Put the end of the tube in the neck of the flask and remove finger. Liquid should flow. Lower the end of the tube and the flask to increase flow rate. Lift up when finished.
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Loptr
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[*] posted on 26-11-2018 at 06:10


A siphon is a quick/easy and cheap option. I use one I got from an auto parts store for use with my 4L bottles. Works very well.

[Edited on 26-11-2018 by Loptr]




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DrP
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 02:27


This is what drum pumps are for. Otherwise - decant an amount to a smaller storage container through a funnel and decant further from that into squishy bottles or whatever you keep it in usually.

I don't like the syphon idea - it is dated - we have these pumps for a reason. I don't like sucking anything into my mouth in the lab.




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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 02:54


[rquote=556587&tid=106959&author=DrP]I don't like the syphon idea - it is dated - we have these pumps for a reason. I don't like sucking anything into my mouth in the lab. [/rquote]
[rquote=556213&tid=106959&author=j_sum1]siphoning can be done easily with a piece of PVC tubing without having to suck on the end.[/rquote]
I don't get the problem, DrP
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Loptr
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 05:15


[rquote=556587&tid=106959&author=DrP]
I don't like the syphon idea - it is dated - we have these pumps for a reason. I don't like sucking anything into my mouth in the lab. [/rquote]

Haha you think I use my mouth. Good lord!

My syphon has a hand pump to get it started. :cool:




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DrP
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 05:46


[rquote=556612&tid=106959&author=Loptr][rquote=556587&tid=106959&author=DrP]
I don't like the syphon idea - it is dated - we have these pumps for a reason. I don't like sucking anything into my mouth in the lab. [/rquote]

Haha you think I use my mouth. Good lord!

My syphon has a hand pump to get it started. :cool:[/rquote]

OK - Maybe I am talking about a similar pump.... you pump it over with your hands... quite easy. We have them at work. The lads do take the piss a bit when they ask for stuff from the barrel - they ask if it can be 'wanked out' of the barrel because of the motion necessary to use the hand pump. lol. 'Wank us out 10 L of IPA please'.




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Herr Haber
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 07:15


I can only imagine the endless jokes in the lab if you try to syphon ethanol and end up with a mouthful :P
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 07:52


Drums, eh? Richard Feynman liked drums and drumming...

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Loptr
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 10:41


Pipetting by mouth used to be the technique!



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kulep
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 12:09


To siphon liquids instead of sucking through the tube you can also blow through the hole (in the barrel), just need a little positive pressure inside. I do that to transfer fuel, diesel doesn't taste great

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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 16:18


[rquote=556113&tid=106959&author=CouchHatter]Are there any novel ways of working with large containers - to transfer small amounts to jugs?[/rquote]

One may have an extra cap, to poke two hoses through, one for alcohol one for vacuum...then pull the vacuum line off. Large jugs can go on the floor to use the vacuum to start siphon action.




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CouchHatter
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[*] posted on 27-11-2018 at 20:09


Wow, I guess you just have to ask the right questions to get answers! Thanks everyone for your input, I feel much better equipped. Now to contemplate buying more equipment...

Also because it's not well-enough publicized, and I just discovered it: [url=https://www.nap.edu/read/4911/chapter/1]Prudent Practices in the Laboratory[/url]

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[*] posted on 28-11-2018 at 08:29



I've used these - they are cheap and nasty but work. https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/hand-operated-siphon-pump-7-gpm-polyethylene/0643910?PubID=UY&persist=true&ip=no&keyword=&&gclid=EA IaIQobChMI2a3Gw8D33gIViM13Ch106QCFEAQYASABEgK7KfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

There are better ones made of metal but they are dearer....

Not tried these: https://www.coleparmer.co.uk/i/hand-operated-drum-pump-steel-body-16-strokes-gallon/0707925?PubID=UY&persist=true&ip=no&keyword=&& gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4PKrvMD33gIVls13Ch1r-wCrEAQYBSABEgIUE_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds




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