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Formatik
National Hazard
Posts: 927
Registered: 25-3-2008
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Mood: equilibrium
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Annoying neighbors
Anyone have had this problem? Neighbors apparently so obsessed with your hobby, that they feel self-righteous enough to come over to your
property and verbally insult you?
[Edited on 25-6-2008 by Schockwave]
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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No, mostly because they don't know that I have that particular hobby. I talk about my fishing, woodworking, and gardening, but not
that hobby. I concluded long ago that discussing/displaying this hobby with the general public, and neighbors in particular, would lead to
nothing but trouble. It's not just, but it is reality. I don't like it that way, it's just a survival mechanism.
I was recently talking to a young man who does art glass blowing for a living. He had a large tank of propane and a large tank of oxygen in his
backyard before moving his equipment into his business location. His neighbors called the cops on him because of the tanks in his yard.
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
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Mood: .
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When I was starting chemistry, I did everything outside, in plain view of the neighbors, I believe one of the first things I tried was making
malachite, and I using many mason jars of strange blue solutions. I caught them watching at least once. I used to have a pyrotechnics hobby, which
they really enjoyed on new years and Canada day, and annoyed them the rest of the year. (I heard a conversation between the husband and wife about whether to call the cops or not once , I stopped after that)
I did all hardcore chemistry with the fancy equipment indoors or in the garage. They havent seen anything chemistry related, nor any fireworks in
years, so everything is fine between us now.
Never once did they try to play neighborhood Stasi with me.
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Formatik
National Hazard
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Registered: 25-3-2008
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Mood: equilibrium
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Magpie
No, mostly because they don't know that I have that particular hobby. I talk about my fishing, woodworking, and gardening, but not
that hobby. I concluded long ago that discussing/displaying this hobby with the general public, and neighbors in particular, would lead to
nothing but trouble. It's not just, but it is reality. I don't like it that way, it's just a survival mechanism. |
I think you're absolutley right. The kind of trust I've generously extended to these people, and restricting to not creating anything large enough to
stink, make noise, etc., only comes at my own price. The general public has as much of an idea about this stuff as a bee does swimming under water.
| Quote: | | I was recently talking to a young man who does art glass blowing for a living. He had a large tank of propane and a large tank of oxygen in his
backyard before moving his equipment into his business location. His neighbors called the cops on him because of the tanks in his yard.
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That's a shame even the glass blowers are becoming suspects.
| Quote: | Originally posted by The_Davster
When I was starting chemistry, I did everything outside, in plain view of the neighbors, I believe one of the first things I tried was making
malachite, and I using many mason jars of strange blue solutions. I caught them watching at least once. I used to have a pyrotechnics hobby, which
they really enjoyed on new years and Canada day, and annoyed them the rest of the year.(I heard a conversation between the husband and wife about whether to call the cops or not once, I stopped after that)
I did all hardcore chemistry with the fancy equipment indoors or in the garage. They havent seen anything chemistry related, nor any fireworks in
years, so everything is fine between us now.
Never once did they try to play neighborhood Stasi with me. |
I also do everything inside in my cellar, but the thing is there are windows through which they can and do leer in. I also think my mistake there is
do the experiments also at night.
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Zinc
Hazard to Others
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My neighbors know what I do and they have no problem with that. I do most of my experiments in a improvised lab with a lot of windows. People from
more than 300m can see my inside the lab . My whole village knows that I am a
"bomber" as they call me
Every time they hear something that could be an explosion they ask me: Did you do that?
Visitors and tourists are a big problem for me. They get scared when they hear an explosion and call the police
[Edited on 25-6-2008 by Zinc]
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Schockwave
I also do everything inside in my cellar, but the thing is there are windows through which they can and do leer in. I also think my mistake there is
do the experiments also at night. |
If you are that worried and if you do the experiments at night, you and all your equipment will be much more visible from outdoors than during the
day.
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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| Quote: |
If you are that worried and if you do the experiments at night, you and all your equipment will be much more visible from outdoors than during the
day.
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This is true. I have a one-way film on my garage door window but that does me no good at night. Also, even if the blinds are closed, seeing the
window lit makes the neighbors curious. As Organkium once stated there is nothing worse than a neighbor who is now suspicious but can't figure out
what's going on. Her (his) imagination can then just run wild coming up with the worst scenarios.
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len1
National Hazard
Posts: 595
Registered: 1-3-2007
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Mood: NZ 1 (goal) - Italy 1 (dive)
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| Quote: | | I have a one-way film on my garage door window but that does me no good at night. Also, even if the blinds are closed, seeing the window lit makes the
neighbors curious. |
The logical conclusion if one finds onrself having thoughts like that is that one is living in a police state. And I hear your top guy going on about
'love of freedom'. If he cant make people inside his country feel free what chance is there he can bring those sorts of feelings to others.
[Edited on 26-6-2008 by len1]
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
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Location: USA
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Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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len1 says:
| Quote: |
The logical conclusion if one finds onrself having thoughts like that is that one is living in a police state.
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The one-way film on the garage door window is south facing and was installed there over 25 years ago to reflect the intense rays of the summer sun.
It has the added benefit of giving me some privacy during daylight hours.
I may be a little more paranoid than most US home chemists. I just love this hobby too much to risk losing it.
I doubt if current "police state" conditions in the US are any worse than those of many other nations in the world. Do you (len1) feel comfortable
discussing/displaying your chemistry hobby to your neighbors? If you do then you are very fortunate, or else I have misconstrued what I've seen
posted by Australians.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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The US is much worse in some ways. I get the feeling that neighbors/other people seem to think they know what's best for everyone else here (more so
than in other societies).
This doesn't really count as a "neighbor incident", but one time my landlord "came a'knockin'" so I invited him in (big mistake). I had a
distillation setup stored in the second bedroom which served as a huge storage closet. I made the stupid mistake of showing it to him and explaining
what I do...
About a week later my girlfriend called me while I was at work to tell me that someone had broken into the house and all of my glassware had been
smashed. There was an eviction notice on the door and a text message on my phone calling me a "meth cook". I also discovered a bag full of empty
iodine tincture bottles hidden in a dresser drawer in that same room (it wasn't mine). The cops never busted down my door but I know they were
watching me as I packed. I even reported the break-in to the cops and showed them the baggy of tinctures... nothing came of it.
So, because of someone elses ignorance and hysteria and the indifference of the police I lost my apartment.
I can't believe I haven't told this story on this forum yet... Wait, I think I told half of it...
I'm telling you guys, we must rise up and put down this bullshit (this does not necessarily mean violence). If we (the non-ignorant American people)
don't we will find ourselves living in a full-fledged police state.
[Edited on 6-26-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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len1
National Hazard
Posts: 595
Registered: 1-3-2007
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Mood: NZ 1 (goal) - Italy 1 (dive)
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| Quote: | | I doubt if current "police state" conditions in the US are any worse than those of many other nations in the world. Do you (len1) feel comfortable
discussing/displaying your chemistry hobby to your neighbors? If you do then you are very fortunate, or else I have misconstrued what I've seen posted
by Australians. |
Of course conditions are not better here, what others have described is perfectly correct. But its imported from the states. This is not a statement
of patriotism but of fact. You cant argue with facts no matter if one is upset by the connotations they carry. Our people have in some cases taken
in further in their desire to lead the world - thinking this is a trend of the future.
Its not the same evrywhere by the way. I for instance have recently done business with four different enterprises in Germany. The difference from
here is like chalk and cheese - I was treated with trust and intelligence. And this given that I was a foreigner in their country and they didnt
speek my language well. I guess there's a reason why they made most of the discoveries in this area.
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brew
Hazard to Self
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Registered: 25-4-2008
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Mood: enthralled
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I showed a friend - not greatly close - my littly backyard set up and discussed my thoughts on pesticides that are based upon companion planting. The
last thing I said to him, was to please dont talk casualy that I am doing what I am doing. I never heard from him for some time, as he assumed - I
later found out - that I feared anyone knowing that I was on the brink of discovering a new organic pesticide and this was the reason why I told him
"Please dont mention my backyard set-up." as I feared my secret compound may be stolen. I told him that know this was not my motive for asking for
some privacy but the fact that if people knew that I was doing chemistry and had distillation equipment, then they would likely think the worst. Sort
of funny now I think about it, but it goes to show that people formulate ideas that perhaps are not reality, and treat you accordingly.
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Th0r
Harmless
Posts: 12
Registered: 27-4-2008
Location: Care to guess?
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Mood: Sociopathic.
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Fair play, my neighbours despise me, and for good reason, some could say. I don't think it would be particularly bright to mention my 'excessive'
interest in even more socially unacceptable things such as firearms. And Chemistry?
They're so stupid they would probably think I was making 'teh b0mbzz', whilst not paying any attention to the large percentage of Chemistry I do that
is relatively safe and not illegal...
If I was stupid enough to inform the neighbours of my hobby/s I think it wouldn't be long before the Police turned up on my door flinging accusations
that I intend to blow up [With the bombz I have been making with Bleach] and destroy my school, or I'm planning a Jihadist Terrorist attrocity.
As for telling anyone about my hobby I only tell those I can trust 100% or those who could be useful in obtaining me items for my hobby and whatnot.
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undead_alchemist
Hazard to Others
Posts: 189
Registered: 12-1-2007
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired, Cleaning up corporate messes at work!
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For where I live, *townhouse complex*. A few people know what I have in the garage, even the strata council knows as I am on the council as well. So
far no problems. Well helps that I use the discount from my work to order items to take care of some of the pest problems, example ants.
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gregxy
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 26-5-2006
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In addition to fears of bomb making terrorists and meth
cooks, many people (even reasonable ones) think that
anything chemical is automatically bad, toxic or causes
cancer.
There has been a big fuss in our area about spraying for
moths. I looked up the pesticide they are planning to use
and the LD50 was >5g/kg, the stuff is less toxic than table
salt. I don't particularly want to be sprayed with it, but there
are people in the media making it sound like the end of the
world.
If you read the MSDS you can make anything sound bad.
The media people were concerned that ammoniumphosphate
was being used and it is an eye irritant and had not been
tested to see if it is carcinogenic.
So the best advice is to be on good terms with you neighbors
and keep a low profile.
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brew
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 25-4-2008
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Mood: enthralled
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"As for telling anyone about my hobby I only tell those I can trust 100% or those who could be useful in obtaining me items for my hobby and whatnot"
Good point, but at the time I thought I could trust this person and still do as far as opening his mouth goes.
I suppose I have been somewhat loose lipped - if that's a word- because I am not doing anything outrightly illegal. I also have a book that lists all
my chem, all my reactions and why I am doing what I am doing. I have also made it known to a respected member of our society, namely an associate,
what I am doing and my concerns that if I was raided and the LEO's tried to paint their own picture of what I am up to, and it hit the local papers,
then it would some what fuck me up. If this worst case scenario was to occur, then at least I have a record, albeit of my own account, along with a
trusted member of our society willing to state that he knew what I was up to, was aware that I was concerned over this issue, and also was aware of my
motives for doing this stuff. This may seem perhaps as overkill on the issue, but all the LEO's need is perhaps some history/ evidance of a happy
hungry and stuped period in one's teenage years, and that along with one's glassware and a cupboard full of chem - Well your obviously a cook etc,
This most likely wont happen but if it did, I at least want to be able to state(verbally and in writing)what I am up to and why. If you get busted
with a shed full of chem and glassware and purely relying on verbal reasoning, then I think this could be somewhat problematic.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
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"That most likely won't happen"
Change that to "there is an ever increasing chance that it will happen".
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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brew
Hazard to Self
Posts: 96
Registered: 25-4-2008
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Mood: enthralled
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I agree, and I best make sure my actions are as loud as my words. I'd hate to learn the hard way with this issue.
bmc
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
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Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
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Both my neighbors know what I do, well just one of them now as the other died 2 days ago
as do my friends, I make my mystery of it or hide anything not even from the window cleaner!
I`v had a Lab of sorts since I was 12 years old and I`m 41 now with a child of my own.
there`s nothing illegal in here, or done. And I`m happy to answer anyones questions that care to ask them.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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Jor
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My neighbors are also a bit annoying sometimes. The door of my garage is a few meters from their garden. At summer, they are outside all the time, and
they hear al the noice I'm making (running tap water, pump for cooling water, etc.).
They must be thinking, damn what is he doing there. If they ever ask, I won't lie.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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I normally wouldn't say this, but you should lie.
| Quote: |
there`s nothing illegal in here, or done
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Nothing that you consider illegal. I'm not sure about your country but in the US even in the most basic labs authorities can find
something illegal or some infraction. Basically, if they want you they will get you. I know that sounds really paranoid but I know
from first hand experience that it is true and anyone who doesn't see it should have their vision/hearing/mind checked.
And even if you aren't convicted... Well, you know how the "going to court/defamation/broken, missing glassware/character
assassination/humiliation/depletion of funds thing" goes.
With all this tyranny I was surprised about the Supreme Court decision in Washington D.C. the other day.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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bigbigbeaker
Harmless
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Location: Ilkast, DE
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Mum is the Word
When I moved into my neighborhood, all the neighbors warned me about the terrorist who lived across the street. He was also called the mad bomber.
It turns out that he worked as a lab tech for the county medical center and sometime brought home chipped glassware. When he moved, everyone was
thrilled and felt much safer. Several people said they were just waiting for an excuse to call the police. I know for a fact that Joe never did any
home chemistry. He just like the beakers and flasks. At work he dipped test paper into urine mostly. The lesson is this: Never tell a soul about
your hobby. It only takes one ignorant person calling the police to destroy your hobby and maybe your life. Make sure nothing can be seen through
the windows. Always have an explanation ahead of time just in case. If you own acetone, ether, KMnO4, MEK, toluene, HCL or H2SO4 then you have List
II chemicals. A List II chemical is "used in manufacturing a controlled substance in violation of the Act." Google "CFR Sec. 1310.02(a)" to read
about them. Now combine the List II possession with a post on this board stating that the Leukart reaction can make meth and you now have a
conspiracy. Who wants to sit in the defendants box at a trial hoping that the jury understands that all hobby chemists use H2SO4 in their
experimenting? Not me!
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 7977
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
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Mood: interested
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Most of you are speaking about the USA situation, but fortunately that is not how it is in many other countries. Yes, there are persons over here (in
NL) as well, who are afraid of anything chemical, but my experience is that many people do not think you are a terrorist or a meth cook, but they find
it geeky/nerdy. They won't call the police, they just tell you that you should be careful and you see them thinking "this is a real nerd". Especially
younger people have that attitude, but this is not specific for home chemistry. It is true for all home science. A person, who is doing mathematics at
home is treated in a similar way.
I, however, have told about my hobby to quite a lot of people. Many of my colleagues know about it, and I recently applied for a new job (from a large
IT-company to a small more personal company) and in my talks with people from the new company I have told about my home chemistry activities and I
have shown them my website. They liked it, and they gave a positive turn to it, thinking that if someone is doing this kind of things, then that must
be a really eager person, who also is eager to learn new software paradigms, tools and methods! It actually helped me getting my new job as a software
engineer/architect!
So, all the fuzz about hiding all your experiments and keeping your mouth shut like a grave is not how I feel about it.
I do think, that things strongly depend on what kind of chemistry you are doing. The kind of experiments, which are on my website are very
representative for the chemistry I do at home. I am steering away from making larger quantities of energetics and I also am steering away from
anything which has to do with drugs. This certainly helps making the hobby much more accepted, and I have experienced that my website also has added a
lot to the acceptance of my hobby. Even stronger, most people I tell about it, do like it. The best thing is that my former manager (who now has his
own IT company) came across my website two years ago. He contacted me about this, and now we have good contact again (we lost that 8 years ago). He
also purchased a few tens of chemicals now and is playing around with them with his sons and we visit each other every few months.
I just want to add this story to compensate somewhat for the rather negative things I read in this thread.
I fully agree with YT2095, there is nothing illegal and I do nothing illegal and so I can be open and tell about my hobby.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
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Mood: Suspicious
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Good. But that's because you don't live in a paranoid, ignorant, freedom/privacy hating nation (US).
For those of us who DO live in the US, UK, Australia etc. it is a much different story. Our secrecy is not superfluous. It is a necessity. It is to
ensure survival. Americans act like they live in a communist state (tell on your neighbors no matter what-style). It's as if the fact that we are
all Americans means nothing to them. Sell-outs, that's what we are. We'd sell out our neighbors to the cops for a dimebag and a large pizza. "As
long as it's not me". That quote just about sums it up, IMO.
I can't even take a walk through the neighborhood while smoking a cigarette without getting the cops called on me. It's true. It happened.
Apparently they were worried that I was smoking a "marijuana cigarette". Oh, no! While they sip on their fucking beer and wine. Jackasses.
I've been thinking about moving to a country with better people in it when I get older. People here are just such wasteful, backstabbing
mothertruckers.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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len1
National Hazard
Posts: 595
Registered: 1-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: NZ 1 (goal) - Italy 1 (dive)
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Its a well and truly different story in Europe if my impressions of what I saw recently are correct. Here we have ads screened on all channels, with
a regularity of about 3-4 a week, claiming you can help your country.
Theyre advertising the "National Security Hotline", whose number continuously flashes on the screen to a bakdrop of concerned sounding callers in the
background "doing the right thing". Different voices are cutting in and out with the following phrases, saying - "I saw something unusual the other
day", "they were planning something", "it didnt look quite right".
Now think if your neighbours, most of whom never did chemistry at school" saw you through an open door in your garage doing a distilation, would that
qualify to them as "I saw something unusual", or "it didnt look quite right", which the ads are summoning people to report?
The ad ends with "the safety of your contry depends on you" and an encouraging note "- and you CAN remain anonymous", with the can emphasized. So if
your neighbour doesnt like you its an open invitation. How do they think the gulags started?
This is one example of why my use of the phrase 'Police State' is not an exaggeration. Of course you an have different levels of 'Police State' as
someone wrote, just as there are different levels of Communism. Im am not yet living in a fully-fledged 'Police State'. But these are certainly
symptoms of the beginnings of one.
[Edited on 28-6-2008 by len1]
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