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Author: Subject: Chlorine trifluoride & other hypervalent fluorohalogen compounds
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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 07:58
Chlorine trifluoride & other hypervalent fluorohalogen compounds


Chlorine trifluoride is an obscure compound that was industrialized as an incendiary war gas ("N-Stoff") for the SS in Germany during WWII. It is said to ignite flesh, wood, asphalt, etc., on contact.

I've found very little on ClF3 but it is prepared by direct fluorination of chlorine in this U.S. Patent: US6929784 (see http://tinyurl.com/6pqmve). They use it to etch electronic components as it is formed & do not isolate or store it.

Other so-called hypervalent fluoro derivatives of halogens are also very energetic. If I recall correctly what was said during a paper that was read at one of the annual fluorine conferences at USC, NaIF6 will ignite diesel fuel.

[Edited on 27-6-2008 by Ritter]




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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 11:00


There are detailed instructions for preparing ClF3 and many other interhalogen compounds in Brauer.

Apparati made of nickel, copper or alloys of these two metals are used for handling the fluorine and the halogen fluorides.




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[*] posted on 27-6-2008 at 15:32


Quote:
Originally posted by garage chemist
There are detailed instructions for preparing ClF3 and many other interhalogen compounds in Brauer.

Apparati made of nickel, copper or alloys of these two metals are used for handling the fluorine and the halogen fluorides.


Danke sehr!

I am interested in obtaining a copy of the Allied Field Intelligence report that would cover 'N-Stoff.'

While not an energetic compound in itself, I have learned from official (yet unofficial) soirces that a major concern is involved with shipment of liquid oxygen. This, too, will make anything in its path burst into flame given a source of ignition.




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[*] posted on 30-6-2008 at 05:23


http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_sa...
Plenty of information about ClF3.
Don't mess around with this stuff, if any of you guys might seem interested in it. It apparently makes F2 look tame.
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[*] posted on 30-6-2008 at 07:36
ok wtf


People like you are the reason smart people like you keep becoming a smaller % of the population, HEHE let`s mess with some gas that can melt flesh and shit off your bones!!!!!!!!!11111

Just joking, but still, If I had the equipment,supplies and instructions, coupled with a college degree and the licensing to do this, I still would have no motivation to have that crap within a square mile of me


sounds DAMN USEFUL for chemical warfare though, funny story, my dad served in the military for 3 years or so, he had bad asthma since childhood, one of their training procedures involved exposure to CS gas, after that he didn't have an asthma attack for 15 years

[Edited on 30-6-2008 by PyroRA]




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[*] posted on 30-6-2008 at 07:46


As Germany made no use at all of its CW capabilities in WWII apparently due to Hitler's loathing of CW, having been a mustard victim himself in the previous war, I would be surprised is ClF3 was ever actually industrialized. Of the newer developments only tabun was in production. Sarin's plant was unfinished at end of the war. Soman was only discovered in 1944.

I'd check Sartori re CF3. The BIOS reports also if you can get them. Saroti's THE WAR GASES is in the forum library for free and his supplemental monograph is in Chemical Reviews.

But note that CWC does not cover this compound, and CWC purports to include every CW agent ever actually weaponized at least in Schedule 3 if they have significant nonmilitary use. I think this one never made the list.

I checked and Sartori's book has no mention of CF2 and for that matter F2 is omitted. I will see the supplement.

No mention of CF3 in the supplement either.

[Edited on 30-6-2008 by Sauron]




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[*] posted on 30-6-2008 at 22:25


ClF3 seems to have been produced by Germany in the WW2. From the Wiki article:

"Under the code name N-stoff ("substance N"), chlorine trifluoride was investigated for military applications by the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in Nazi Germany from slightly before the start of World War II. Tests were made against mock-ups of the Maginot Line fortifications, and it was found to be an effective combined incendiary weapon and poison gas. From 1938 construction commenced on a partly bunkered, partly subterranean 31.76 km² munitions factory at Falkenhagen which was intended to produce 50 tonnes of N-stoff per month, plus Sarin. However by the time it was captured by the advancing Red Army in 1944, the factory had produced only about 30 to 50 tonnes, at a cost of over 100 German Reichsmark per kilograma. N-stoff was never used in war.[7]"
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[*] posted on 1-7-2008 at 00:01


Anyone care to convery 1944 Reichsmarks 100,000 per MT into 2008 Euros or dollars?

Combination incendiary-poison gas. Hmmm. Incendiaries at that time were WP, napalm and thermite or one of the thermates. Dirt cheap. WP at least doubled as irritant smoke.

This does not appear to be a cost effective development.

Meanwhile the tabun plant was producing 10,000 MT a month.




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[*] posted on 1-7-2008 at 02:50


ClF3 probabaly escaped from the CWC as it was investigated as a possible rocket fuel. NASA had quite an interest in it in the immediate post war years.
However it was tricky stuff to work with :D

"It is, of course, extremely toxic, but that's the least of the problem. It is hypergolic with every known fuel, and so rapidly hypergolic that no ignition delay has ever been measured. It is also hypergolic with such things as cloth, wood, and test engineers, not to mention asbestos, sand, and water—with which it reacts explosively."
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[*] posted on 1-7-2008 at 05:48


Dual use does not exempt anything from CWC, just gets it into Schedule 3 along with ubiquitous industrial feedstocks like phosgene and HCN.

Besides, this isn't 1950, and I doubt NASA is holding in reserve as a potential aerospace fuel.




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[*] posted on 1-7-2008 at 16:02


I am pointing out that the CWC schedules are partly historical and produced by consultation between scientific advisors, definitely the junior partners, industry heads who basically run the show and fairly venal politicians.
There are things like phosgene on there but plenty of precursors to precursors are ignored.
I would say that a moderately advanced sovereign state would have no difficulty at all in bypassing it completely if they wanted a CW capability.
Currently we are getting excited about the fact that Iran is on the verge of building a few bombs and maybe a possible delivery system.
It is not in doubt that Israel has a nuclear bomb stockpile that matches or exceeds Britain or France and can hit all of the Middle East, eastern and western Europe.
But under the stupid American policy of 'Don't ask, don't tell' this is ignored.
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[*] posted on 1-7-2008 at 19:49


I am well familiar with the mechanics of CWC and its shortcomings. The state parties apparently decided that a castrated convention was better than no convention at all. CWC is just another burgeoning UN bureaucracy and has already been thwarted by at least one major state party (former USSR) which has 2-3 generations of unscheduled CW agents that can defeat NATO MOPP and detection gear and against which all known prophylaxis and therapeutic agents are ineffective. I refer to the so called Novichoks.



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[*] posted on 4-7-2008 at 09:30


Can we keep politics, foreign policy and other vaguely related stuff out of this please?



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[*] posted on 4-7-2008 at 16:57


I am fairly sure that ClF5 would be more stable, at least kinetically, than ClF3, and preferentially formed, as well as less volatile; but still a potent fluorinating agent. The ClF6+ cation was synthesized a few years ago as a salt of SbF6-, by the reaction with ClF5 of F+ which was produced by the decomposition of [KrF]+[SbF6]- (which is the only compound of Kr stable at room temperature); being isoelectronic with SF6, it should be more kinetically stable still.
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