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Author: Subject: Pyrolytic production of scopolamine from OTC precursor
Sauron
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[*] posted on 14-1-2009 at 03:03


Yeah, well, I'm sick of all such New Age bullshit. This is supposed to be a scientific forum and not a magical one.

Leave that nonsense to Harry Potter.




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ronstark
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[*] posted on 24-7-2017 at 00:28


So, anyone figures this out yet? Freebase or salt compound?

[Edited on 24-7-2017 by ronstark]
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tsathoggua1
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[*] posted on 24-7-2017 at 10:14


I could have a crack at this. Not that I'd intend on ingesting more than milligram quantities as an anti-nauseant. I have a prescription for buscopan 10mg tablets and I only use it occasionally. I've been having major stomach problems, and take buscopan, scopolamine itself in transdermal patch form (although I dropped that recently) cimetidine (my dr was mighty puzzled when whilst originally on ranitidine I asked him to switch me to cimetidine, and had no idea until I explained it to him about its effects, not shared with ranitidine, on hepatic CYP-P450 pathways, allowing my rx morphine, or the di/monopropionylmorphine mixture sometimes prepared from it, as well as rx oxycodone, to last longer and hit harder.

Taught him a new trick there, he was most surprised to have a patient teaching the doctor, rather than the other way around but it seemed to go down well, since he did do as asked and switch me over)

Dropped the patch scopolamine but still have a few to use if needs be for making comparison, since I got a script for ondansetron, which works absolute wonders for me, and stops me overloading my body with salts with the quantities of gaviscon I was having to consume daily (its been bad enough to land me in the ER, with projectle vomiting, sometimes blood-streaked, curled up in the foetal position and spewing bile and foam, after evacuating everything else. Until the first time I got given a shot of ondansetron which had me to rights in minutes, pulling out my copy of PIHKAL and TIHKAL from my backpack and heading out for a quick J and ending up falling asleep for a bit on a bench outside the hospital before some nurse, annoyingly woke me from my rest, the first in about 3 days of constant vomiting and billious retching every 5-10 minutes. Not fun) Also got put on cyclizine.

So now I have months and months and months and months worth of scopolamine butylbromide and if anyone can suggest a test to differentiate a quaternary ammonium salt from a tert. amine I'd be up for giving pyrolytic degradation a try to verify this.

Since this is a bromide salt, would adding a soluble silver salt work to test the pyrolysis product via abstraction of the bromide as silver bromide, and assay via its insolubility in acetone?

If anyone here has access to IR, UV or mass spec, NMR etc. I could perform the experiment and send a sample for assay to verify proportions of the quat to the tert. amine? since I literally have so much more of the scopolamine butylbromide than I could ever need and keep getting more every week.

[Edited on 24-7-2017 by tsathoggua1]
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tsathoggua1
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[*] posted on 24-7-2017 at 10:42


Also, as far as new age bollocks goes, that oil may in fact have some oneirogenic properties.

Breaking down the more important ingredients...

Mugwort is the primary one I'd point out. It has a fairly long history in herbalism for stuffing pillows with the freshly dried herb, or its being smoked, as an oneirogen, I've tried it since it is very common round here and it did indeed seem to induce more vivid dreaming.

Hops contain humulones, isohumulones and lupulone and also produce as a degradation product of one of the constituents in fresh hops when aging 2-methyl-2-buten-3-ol, not far distant from tertiary pentanol, which is active and quite potent as a hypnotic/sedative with some characteristics in common with alcohol, I've tried the latter although not the olefinic derivative, and the active dosage to get quite 'pissed' would be a mere few ml.

Hops have a long traditional herbal usage as a sedative, as essential oil, as a stuffing of pillows. Interestingly the wiki article remarks on similarity of action to valerian. Has anyone here ever tried very high dose (with respect to dose suggested in OTC herbal valerian root extract capsules/tablets) valerian? it has some constituents similar to valproate, as well as a GABAa agonist active as an allosteric modulator of the loreclezole binding site and upon ingestion of say, an entire box of tablets (it is a sedative-hypnotic, although a mild one and this is not something that IMO is likely to overdose somebody dangerously, although still, test lower dosages first but do so in stages, separated by some time because one thing I noted was a MASSIVE tachyphylaxis to the oneirogenic effect such that it was very weak the second of two tests in a row, night after night, and third night pretty much ineffective, but the tachyphylaxis to the oneirogenic property is very short lived, but develops quicker than any other psychoactive I've ever known, even tachyphylaxis to fentanyl (had an RX for a brief time for my joint issues, hated it and day after went back to oxy and then to oxy and morphia)

Chamomile essential oils are also used as gentle relaxant-sedatives as is chamomile tea, well known for a long time for this use in herbal medicine. And saffron threads are known to be, when fresh, psychoactive. Trans-crocetin is reportedly a high-affinity NMDA antagonist, so this cocktail of oils and extracts together, whilst promoted as 'magick' and new age bollocksery heavily slathered over the top, does not, solely due to the WAY it is promoted as 'magic' render it by default, inactive bullshit. It may be presented as magic, but there is, whilst they may well not know it, science behind it that supports the potential for activity of such oil.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21112749

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20537515


Think about it this way: the native amerindian users of ayahuasca traditionally for many thousands of years had no idea of the fact that DMT is the psychedelic component primarily, whilst orally activated by inhibition of monoamineoxidase-A enzyme, the Bwiti religion practitioners probably have no idea that ibogaine acts on 5HT2a receptors, NMDA receptors and many others besides, but they know it works. Whether they view the results as visitations from the gods, or spirits, doesn't make a difference to the fact that there is science behind their magick.

[Edited on 24-7-2017 by tsathoggua1]
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[*] posted on 24-7-2017 at 14:57


Too much hassle for only 10 mg. Just smoke it.

The smoke of the burning cigarettes, the ashes, and the filter were analyzed for the presence of scopolamine. Scopolamine was detected in all cases.


Quote:
Conclusions
This study has shown that smoking Buscopan tablets in cigarettes generates scopolamine,a well-known drug causing anticholinergic syndrome (hallucinations,mydriasis,and amnesia). Thus, the rare reports of persons claiming to smoke Buscopan should be taken seriously. Further studies are necessary to elucidate the chemical mechanism of scopolamine formation and to assess the quantity of scopolamine that needs to be absorbed by inhalation to experience CNS effects, such as hallucinations.


[Edited on 24-7-2017 by ronstark]

Attachment: Formation of scopolamine form N-ButylScopolammonium Bromide in Cigarettes.pdf (545kB)
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