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Author: Subject: N,N-dimethlyformamide
beastmaster
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[*] posted on 31-8-2008 at 08:52
N,N-dimethlyformamide


I need less then 500ml of dmf. The place I get lots of my chems from only sell it in 4-1 liter lots. This isn't a problem except I worry about attracting unwanted attention buying,what to me is a large amount. Is dmf a watched chemical? Is 4 liters a large amount to those who watch these things. This is a life time supply for me. If its going to get me unwanted attention, I'll find somewhere else to get a smaller amount I never worry to much about buying stuff because I generally buy all my stuff in really small amounts. Thank you for any help. I am in the USA so my question deals with buying it here. Beast
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[*] posted on 31-8-2008 at 10:04


I don't think this will cause any suspicion. 4L is only 1 gallon, and it's not entirely useful as a reagent so much as an inert solvent.
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[*] posted on 1-9-2008 at 02:53


i agree with the above that DMF is fairly innocuous (from a 'do they want you to have it perspective, not a toxicology standpoint), however if you are concerned with attention a commonly available alternative is n-methyl 2-pyrrolidine. Commonly sold either neat or compounded as a high-end expensive graffitti remover. It has essentially similar features to DMF, being an amide based non-polar aprotic solvent, but smells better in my opinion. it's a little more 'modern' than DMF and as such appears in the literature less frequently.
Ironically (because i'm explaining its use as otherwise, actually that's not really ironic) i use it as a graffiti remover and for this function it works sublimely, however for the AUS$27.50/500mL it should!!!

i just downloaded the msds from the graffiti remover and it seems there's an ester also in there, ethanol 3-ethoxy propionate, that's likely the pleasant smell!!

[Edited on 1-9-2008 by Panache]




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vulture
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[*] posted on 1-9-2008 at 13:08


DMF is quite toxic and might cause transport issues.
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[*] posted on 2-9-2008 at 04:13


The toxicity isn't so bad. According to the msds I can drink 265 mL of it to be half dead.

This highlights an important problem in labs. Every bottle has a toxicity warning on it while in most cases the toxicity is of little concern. I blame America and their stupid claim-culture.

[Edited on 2-9-2008 by Nerro]




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[*] posted on 6-9-2008 at 17:52
DMF toxicity


DMF is highly hepatotoxic; this means will damage your liver on exposure. Thgere should be some kind of "decimal point error". With 265 mL you, all your family and 4-5 of your best friends could be "more than half dead".
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[*] posted on 6-9-2008 at 18:08


On that basis I should be dead a thousand times over!

DMF is safer than a lot of common laboratory reagents. I would prefer handle DMF than dimethyl sulphate any day.

Just handle it in a hood with gloves, do not inhale the vapour and try not to drink the stuff :D
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[*] posted on 6-9-2008 at 18:25
DMF toxicity


If you handle DMF properly (gloves, hood, and don't even think to drink it...), you will not get exposed at once to the 25 mL that may kill you. Of course, with less than 25 ml of Me2SO4 (by mouth) you will also be dead; through another way, you just may pick a cancer (this is an alkylating agent)
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[*] posted on 6-9-2008 at 21:01


Me2SO4 toxic?

Never, it is chicken soup for the soul of the organic chemist :D
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[*] posted on 7-9-2008 at 04:58
Me2SO4


Dimethyl sulfate is an alkylating agent. This means that (among other things) it may transform an >NH into an >NMe group. If this happens t the DNA level and your metabolic/immunologic machine does not stop immediately the modified nucleic acid, the modified DNA may induce copy errors that, if do not kill the cells (most of the time they do and then you do not notice the problem) this cell line may propagate and sometimes be harmful; in those cases you are in presence of a cancer. Of course, if you handle properly the chemical, you are actually not exposed to it (or you severely cut exposure); therefore, it looks as harmless.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2008 at 08:25


Yes, we know all about the hazards of DMS. ScienceSquirrel was being sarcastic.

As for DMF see formic acid and closely related methanol.




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[*] posted on 9-9-2008 at 09:05


LD50/LC50:
CAS# 68-12-2:
Inhalation, mouse: LC50 = 9400 mg/m3/2H;
Inhalation, rat: LC50 = 3421 ppm/1H;
Inhalation, rat: LC50 = 3421 ppm/3H;
Inhalation, rat: LC50 = 1948 ppm/4H;
Oral, mouse: LD50 = 2900 mg/kg;
Oral, rabbit: LD50 = 5 gm/kg;
Oral, rat: LD50 = 2800 mg/kg;
Skin, rabbit: LD50 = 4720 mg/kg;
Skin, rat: LD50 = >3.2 gm/kg;

As listed in the msds that fisher has on it's website. All these amounts are in the grams/kg body weight. I wouldn't call that particularly toxic.




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[*] posted on 9-9-2008 at 19:54


So don't go swimming in DMF. Important safety tip for the day.



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[*] posted on 9-9-2008 at 22:34


"So don't go swimming in DMF. Important safety tip for the day. " Nice one, S. Hey aren't we all using gloves, coats and exhaust fans?



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[*] posted on 10-9-2008 at 18:24


Quote:
Originally posted by vulture
DMF is quite toxic and might cause transport issues.


EMF a terribly toxic band from the UK in the early nineties, their hits included 'unbelievable', and 'i believe' and some other memorable dance ditty.
It is recommended to take very small doses of EMF otherwise you might vomit.
(Just because the silliness is in this thread, it a fusilli thread!)




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[*] posted on 10-9-2008 at 19:04


@Nerro chronic and acute toxicities are two different things...

Looking at only the acute toxicity you only see half of the picture.

(I am not talking particularly about DMF but just in general; I am not well versed in regard to DMF's hazards)




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