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Author: Subject: Home labs and legal issues
entropy51
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[*] posted on 30-5-2009 at 16:16


Anyone who thinks the presence of chemicals and lab equipment will not be incriminating if found during a visit by law enforcement might want to check out http://www.tba2.org/tba_files/TCCA/2007/gibsonr_042707.pdf

Although this guy was obviously not an amateur chemist, there seems to be weak evidence of controlled substance manufacture and the court seems to have have placed inordinate reliance on the testimony of officers who couldn't have distinguished between hobby chemisty and drug manufacture. Also note that evidence was "disposed of" by a hazmat company because it was a "biohazard".
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 30-5-2009 at 16:37


The DEA does not care about zoning, that is a municipal issue.

Nor is a commercial facade a guaramtee of invisibility.

When it comes to a drug lab, the best way to set it up is never safe enough and in the end you will probably be ratted out by one of your own.

The feds have got all the local yokels spying for them, and the civil forfeiture laws provide the motivation as the DEA splits the loot down the middle with the locals.

The fire depts and meter readers are now in on the act.

The lab suppliers and chem suppliers are forced to do likewise by the Comprehensive Meth. Control Act etc.

Don't pay for an aorline ticket with cash or you will be chatted up by a couple of narcs who have the power to pick your pockets, literally, and there is not a thing you can do about it.

Land of the free, home of the brave.

I used my freedom and LEFT IT.




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Jacked_is_out
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[*] posted on 30-5-2009 at 18:06


Legal issues and home labs... I was thinking Legal Labs, Not drug labs.... You damn sure don't shit where you eat... There is no legal home lab and the issue will eventually be a Time issue. How much you get.... The lab I posted about was legit and it still cost them... Legal fees alone for a fed case will start in the $60,000 range.. That’s if you plan on fighting the case in court... You could best use that money setting up a lab some place besides home. Legal or not...
Sauron, your right about the DEA not giving a damn about zoning..
As far as being ratted out, You cant tell what you don't know... Keep private shit private as you well know..
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Sauron
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[*] posted on 30-5-2009 at 21:35


I was referring to any sort of lab.

Those folks got really shitty legal advice is they spent $60K on an unwinnable suit.

I bet their lost equipment was a lot less than that.

When I chose to expatriate myself 20 years ago it was not over this issue. But is COULD have been.




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Jacked_is_out
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[*] posted on 31-5-2009 at 02:20


Any legal advice dealing with the FED's is shitty. :D You made a good move 20 years ago.
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Hydragyrum
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[*] posted on 31-5-2009 at 03:56


Quote: Originally posted by Sauron  
Land of the free, home of the brave.

I used my freedom and LEFT IT.

Quote: Originally posted by Sauron  
When I chose to expatriate myself 20 years ago it was not over this issue. But is COULD have been.

Quote: Originally posted by Jacked_is_out  
Any legal advice dealing with the FED's is shitty. :D You made a good move 20 years ago.

So... what is currently* a good country to be in when you have these kind of interests?


* Naturally, I won't hold you responsible if I move there and then it changes for the worse!




Chemistry is life (and a whole lot more)
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The_Davster
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[*] posted on 31-5-2009 at 08:58


Quote: Originally posted by Hydragyrum  

So... what is currently* a good country to be in when you have these kind of interests?


* Naturally, I won't hold you responsible if I move there and then it changes for the worse!


https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=43...




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Sauron
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[*] posted on 31-5-2009 at 21:24


Where I live is a very comfortable place to have a small business and a lab, but drug cooks are dealt with very harshly.

Local nationals who traffic in or manufacture drugs get anything from very long prison terms to extrajudicial, summary execution.

Still, I have been legally buying chemicals and apparatus for a decade and I have never been hassled or harassed. It sounds like that is a lot better off than I might be in the good old US of A.




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kclo4
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[*] posted on 12-10-2009 at 14:42


This just recently happened:
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=8246393

How idiotic.




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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 12-10-2009 at 19:00


They say the public shouldn't be worried, that the chemicals are not going to harm them.....but they don't know what's in them.

o.o'




“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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kclo4
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[*] posted on 12-10-2009 at 20:33


Also they said some of the chemicals react with air, water, and god forbid other chemicals!




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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 13-10-2009 at 16:59


Sounds like it's a bunch of metal tools, they react with air and water quite obviously. And not just the tools doing the reporting, either.



“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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The_Davster
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29-12-2009 at 23:53
Chainhit222
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[*] posted on 20-5-2010 at 21:08


Funny thing, I am a volunteer firefighter and I am into this hobby.:P



The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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Randle Patrick
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[*] posted on 31-5-2010 at 07:05


<p><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">I particularly enjoyed the following rant:<br></span></span></p><blockquote>
<p><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;"><font class="mediumtxt"><em>As far as I know, home chemists are wary of the legislation, as they widely believe it is written mainly by scientifically challenged safety-obsessed apes, who know little to nothing about the legitimate uses of chemicals but nevertheless set out to destroy any kind of individual experimentation with the self-righteous rage of publicly appointed gorillas, without regard to the actual dangers involved and the possible consequences for the economy and the future of research, for fear of a vague, often imaginary threat against the 'normals', those herd-following sheeple who see evil in everything that is not institutional or corporate or sanctioned by the mainstram media.</em></font></span></span></p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">Our local nanny club, the Homeowners Association <strike>Soviet</strike>, banned propane weed-burning torches as an extreme danger to society, etc.&nbsp; Although RoundUp&reg; is fairly harmless stuff - glyphos inhibits the biosynthesis of phenylalanine, something that animals cannot do biochemically anyways - propane is entirely environmentally friendly, no chemicals there.&nbsp; Just blazing hot CO<sub>2</sub> and H<sub>2</sub>O gas.<br></span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">But several thousand feet overhead, recreational hot-air balloons fly about, with the same apparatus but five times bigger, and with 5 km. worth of potential energy on those tanks, besides.&nbsp; Curse you, Red Baron!</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: larger;"><span style="font-family: Times New Roman;">The problem seems to be - what smart people do is very scary, and people should only do smart things with permission.</span></span></p>
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SWilkin676
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[*] posted on 3-6-2010 at 15:49


You know the locals cops for the most part have got better things to do with their time than harrass people who have unusual hobbies. Don't cause any problems for your neighbors and don't cause any fires etc and you are probably fine.

There are WAYYY too many laws on the books for anyone to be unable to not run afoul of them. I guarantee you every one in this entire state has committed something that is against one of the endless number of laws on the books.

For example it is illegal to be nude at someone else's house!

Suzee
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[*] posted on 8-6-2010 at 23:26


I had issue with some ignoramuses, I mean cops.

I was playing around with some KNO3/Mg and it produced a fair quantity of smoke. My neighbor was out, she usually gets annoyed by pyro stuff but this time she just gave an evil glare and walked off.

A few minutes later, I see a firetruck and police coming. They went into my garage and found a bottle of garden center copper sulfate that had a reagent like chemical label. They look displeased "This is an illegal dangerous good. It can only be sold to OSH approved businesses under the HAZNO act . You need a permit to possess this" I respond O RLY?

They get angrier when they find my 200g or so of KNO3 "Illegal explosive possession" the cop notes. Funny how OTC stump remover is illegal.

I ended up with a written warning from my police and to this day some of my more dim friends refer to my hobby as "terrorism"



[Edited on 9-6-2010 by mewrox99]




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JohnWW
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[*] posted on 9-6-2010 at 02:06


Gosh, I did not think that the Pigs here in New Zealand would be that Fascist, although of course they are very corrupt and Rambo-like.

[Edited on 9-6-10 by JohnWW]
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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 9-6-2010 at 06:58


Quote: Originally posted by mewrox99  

A few minutes later, I see a firetruck and police coming. They went into my garage and found a bottle of garden center copper sulfate that had a reagent like chemical label. They look displeased "This is an illegal dangerous good. It can only be sold to OSH approved businesses under the HAZNO act . You need a permit to possess this" I respond O RLY?

They get angrier when they find my 200g or so of KNO3 "Illegal explosive possession" the cop notes. Funny how OTC stump remover is illegal.

I ended up with a written warning from my police and to this day some of my more dim friends refer to my hobby as "terrorism"

[Edited on 9-6-2010 by mewrox99]




My Heaven's man; you need to be careful. You are surrounded by idiots. The best thing that I might suggest is that if your "friends" use such descriptors.....is to fully convince them that you've seen the light and now devote your time to other pursuits.

When the Authorities are called, they will automatically look askance at activities that they may ordinarily think little of..... The reason is that they have to justify their call-out. If your neighbor is doing that - it's only a step away from her actually lying and you getting in serious trouble.
Your "friends" who use such a term as "terrorism" may not realize that they actually put you in harm's way with that type of thing.
Be careful: you've got a real challenge there.




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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 9-6-2010 at 07:36


It's reaching a point where chemistry is synonymous with terrorism!
And we're terror hobbyists. . .

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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 9-6-2010 at 18:48


Understandably, your friends no matter how understanding and humourous, their terminology is enough to get you to gitmo. :(



“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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[*] posted on 10-6-2010 at 21:51


Quote: Originally posted by psychokinetic  
terminology is enough to get you to gitmo. :(


lol that's like there dream.

It's starting to piss me off, how daily I'm called terrorist. As a 'joke' they plan on writing a letter to the the community constable that took my chems about how I got a shipment of glassware and some strong acids.

Quote:

Constable ****, I feel it is my duty as a concerned citizen to inform you about a potential danger to your community. There is a young boy, Named ***** **** living in your area who is experementing with explosives, acids and high powerd lasers. this has gotten to a point hwre neigbours have complained about smoke and the fire dept has confiscated material. I have it on good authority that he has received a package containing over 5L of sulfuric acid and i ask you to do what you can to stop this menace. Sincerly, Anonymous


Note the poor spelling and grammar

They haven't sent it yet, but they use it as a 'threat'




[Edited on 11-6-2010 by mewrox99]




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kclo4
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[*] posted on 10-6-2010 at 23:27


perhaps don't advertise it so much? and talk to them about it -- its just a hobby, etc be as nice as possible, apologize for the misunderstanding or anything else, etc...
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mewrox99
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[*] posted on 10-6-2010 at 23:49


yer with them it's not really a misunderstanding, there just being dicks.

Best is not to mention the hobby and anything related to it.




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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 11-6-2010 at 22:46


Bromine makes really nice brown stains on white underpants. Keep that in mind.



“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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[*] posted on 11-6-2010 at 22:52


LOL.

Yeah, cheap tincture of iodine also does a good job.




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