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Author: Subject: DCM to be removed soon
symboom
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DCM to be removed soon

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dangerous-paint-stripper-chemic...

DCM might be even harder to find the next solvent on the chopping block. I think the problem was improper ventilation.

Title
Deaths linked to a common paint stripper chemical go back decades, so why isn't it banned?
Quotes
"I was shocked. I mean, how is it that you can find something that will kill you instantly and buy it, just off the shelf?" Brian said.

[Edited on 27-12-2018 by symboom]

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DavidJR
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Not news, but good. It has no place in products sold to the average unsuspecting DIY-er with no proper safety training or PPE.
RogueRose
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I found a supplier that sells pure DCM in sizes of 1G, 5g up to 55g in pallets and they were willing to ship to residential addresses. Prices were really good at $41/gal shipped (cheaper in larger sizes) & 1/2 that$41 was shipping.. It is used in MANY industrial processes from dry cleaning to print shops, etc. I told them I get supplies for my local Maker Group and we need this for our screen printing shop and they were really cool about it.

I don't want to put the name of the company up on the site and I haven't ordered yet but I'll probably be placing an order and see if everything comes through.

I think the law is that it can't be added to paint remover or thinner (IDK if it is used in thinner) but for other applications, it is not being touched by fed regs IIRC - the business owner said he hand't heard anything about it b/c he doesn't deal with paint remover.

So maybe there is a glimmer of hope.

Also, they will drop ship, so if I get a successful shipment, they will ship to wherever I tell them as long as they get their  up front, so you wouldn't even need to go through the BS of setting up an account, telling them what it is for, etc.

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by RogueRose]

[Edited on 12-28-2018 by RogueRose]
DavidJR
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The situation in the EU is that DCM is banned in paint strippers, but that doesn't affect any other application so I can still order pure DCM from a chemical supplier with no problem.

Theoretically it could also be used in consumer products other than paint strippers but I'm not aware of any (perhaps solvent welding cements ?). I can buy it cheaply enough that I haven't bothered to look for any consumer product sources.

Paint strippers are particularly hazardous applications of DCM since they're designed to be spread over large surfaces so will always generate significant quantities of fumes.
mayko
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More on this:

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fusso
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Chemicals don't offend people; people do. Dying from DCM is just Darwinism eliminating idiots. The right way to reduce deaths is appropriate education (ie no chemophobic rants), not bans.

Useful sites:
Balance Chemical Equation: http://www.webqc.org/balance.php
Molecular mass and elemental composition calculator: https://www.webqc.org/mmcalc.php
Solubility table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
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DavidJR
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 Quote: Originally posted by fusso Chemicals don't offend people; people do. Dying from DCM is just Darwinism eliminating idiots. The right way to reduce deaths is appropriate education (ie no chemophobic rants), not bans.

Alright guys, let's all get cars with no airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, etc etc. After all any deaths are due to Darwinism eliminating idiots. Who needs consumer products to be safe if you're not an idiot?
fusso
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Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR
 Quote: Originally posted by fusso Chemicals don't offend people; people do. Dying from DCM is just Darwinism eliminating idiots. The right way to reduce deaths is appropriate education (ie no chemophobic rants), not bans.

Alright guys, let's all get cars with no airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, etc etc. After all any deaths are due to Darwinism eliminating idiots. Who needs consumer products to be safe if you're not an idiot?
Look like you can't distingush the different nature between banning and mandatory, and chemicals and car crashes.

Useful sites:
Balance Chemical Equation: http://www.webqc.org/balance.php
Molecular mass and elemental composition calculator: https://www.webqc.org/mmcalc.php
Solubility table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
It's not crime if noone finds out - Nyaruko
yobbo II
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It will sting you elbow if you get it on you elbow, but I once had it splash into my eye (was very worried for a while) but it did not sting at all!

Yob
MrHomeScientist
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 Quote: Originally posted by symboom Quotes "I was shocked. I mean, how is it that you can find something that will kill you instantly and buy it, just off the shelf?" Brian said.

Someting that will kill you instantly, eh? You mean like guns, cars, pressure cookers, cleaning chemicals, rat poison, fireworks, etc. etc. etc. etc.

Or maybe it's that Brian doesn't understand chemicals and they are therefore dangerous and should be outlawed? Everything can "kill you instantly" if you misuse it.
mayko
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(btw, the OP's link says the literal opposite of "DCM to be removed soon"). Here's the first paragraph:

 Quote: A proposed federal ban on a potentially deadly chemical found in common paint strippers may be on hold indefinitely. The EPA says methylene chloride poses an unreasonable risk and the chemical has been implicated in dozens of deaths. The agency proposed a ban in January 2017, but postponed it late last year.

al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
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XeonTheMGPony
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Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR
 Quote: Originally posted by fusso Chemicals don't offend people; people do. Dying from DCM is just Darwinism eliminating idiots. The right way to reduce deaths is appropriate education (ie no chemophobic rants), not bans.

Alright guys, let's all get cars with no airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, etc etc. After all any deaths are due to Darwinism eliminating idiots. Who needs consumer products to be safe if you're not an idiot?

Exactly and get rid of warning labels too, gene pool needs a good shocking. Bring back natural selection, and no I am not joking or being ironic, I loath current society. bubble wrapped corners disgusts me.
morganbw
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Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony
Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR
 Quote: Originally posted by fusso Chemicals don't offend people; people do. Dying from DCM is just Darwinism eliminating idiots. The right way to reduce deaths is appropriate education (ie no chemophobic rants), not bans.

Alright guys, let's all get cars with no airbags, seatbelts, crumple zones, ABS, etc etc. After all any deaths are due to Darwinism eliminating idiots. Who needs consumer products to be safe if you're not an idiot?

Exactly and get rid of warning labels too, gene pool needs a good shocking. Bring back natural selection, and no I am not joking or being ironic, I loath current society. bubble wrapped corners disgusts me.

My first thought was wow!
Two minutes later and I am thinking, yea, maybe.
At one time we had no FDA, no DEA, no ATF, no none of this shit was happening, which is now filling our prisons for no other reason than to protect us from ourselves.

This is a crazy country (USA), mine.

With the DCM it could be as simple as a neighbor saying, maybe open the windows and turn on a fan, I heard something bad happened to someone who was in a closed environment.

The worlds gene pool has turned into a cesspool, and only a few are able to float on the top, with some effort.

Sorry guys, when I drink, I really should go to bed, but some of this shit bothers me.

[Edited on 12/28/2018 by morganbw]
mayko
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What an irresponsible perspective on evolutionary biology.

al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
morganbw
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 Quote: Originally posted by mayko What an irresponsible perspective on evolutionary biology.

I do not feel that you were speaking to me only, but sir, honest answers, from someone's belief) should be respected, even if they are not up to your political correctness. Disagreeing with the answers is what conversation is about. Also, the answers may be completely erroneous.

I am just saying, do not judge so quickly. Make sure you know who you oppose.
Amos
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Everything can be used properly or improperly. The way I see it, they only want to ban something when people misuse it if it's a "chemical" and therefore poorly understood and naturally feared by our health-science-fetishizing culture. Creepy how some of you see this as an opportunity to soapbox about your eugenic fantasies.

On the other hand, DCM and other halogenated solvents don't have the best relationship with our natural environment. But on a consumer products level the impact is far lower than when these things find industrial use. I'd hate to see it banned in consumer products before being banned as an industrial chemical just on the basis of "people are too irresponsible to do anything right".
fusso
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Look like some of you took my point too far. I didn't say we should go all the way to removing all warning labels. In fact warning labels are the proper ways to educate consumers. Banning is not. That's what I want to say.

[Edited on 181229 by fusso]

Useful sites:
Balance Chemical Equation: http://www.webqc.org/balance.php
Molecular mass and elemental composition calculator: https://www.webqc.org/mmcalc.php
Solubility table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
It's not crime if noone finds out - Nyaruko
Ubya
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i have mixed feelings about all of this. i hate seeing OTC easy to find chemicals removed from the shelves, but as someone already pointed out, you will be still able to buy DCM, just not as a consumer product anymore, and for a few af us could be a problem. on the other hand i've seen pretty well the human nature, people are pretty stupid or uneducated about chemistry, schools won't and can't teach you about every chemical you can get a hand on, people should infrom themselves, yea but in general we/they are lazy, probably a normal person doesn't even check the lables of a product.
it's funny how 98% sulphuric acid sold as drain cleaner with a name different than SULPHURIC ACID can be used by a normal person without many attentions, but the moment you explain to them the power of that same acid they get scared. this post is getting a bit too long, what i want to say is that for us that can understand (most of the time) the power and the risk of a chemical this is as always a PITA, but for a normal person this won't affect much of their life, in case of DCM less people will suffocate because of their stupidity/uneducation, and less water will be contaminated with chlorinated solvents by the random guy flushing the leftover paint stripper down the drain

[Edited on 29-12-2018 by Ubya]

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Non-chemistry » Legal and Societal Issues » DCM to be removed soon Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum