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Author: Subject: Condenser cooling
azo
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condenser

Here is a picture of my davies twin suface condenser will post my twin coil graham condenser soon using it at the moment.

overal lenght 680mm surface area 1400cm2
regards azo

[Edited on 27-5-2010 by azo]
white rabbit
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Here is a jacketed Dimroth style condenser. The Dimroth coil is 8mm tubing and the tube down the center of the coil is 35mm in dia. The diameter of the outer jacket is 98.6mm and it is 640mm in length. The bottom joint is 45/50 and the top joint is 29/42. I have it pictured near the 2 liter bottle for comparison. The reaction vessel on the left is 3 liters.

Here it is on a 50 liter flask. The addition funnel is 2 liters.
Chainhit222
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Are you the person on youtube who made the chloroform and ether distillation videos? And is that in your house?

[Edited on 27-5-2010 by Chainhit222]

The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
white rabbit
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Maybe :}
Chainhit222
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yeah im sure the shelf is the same
I really like that song you have in

[Edited on 28-5-2010 by Chainhit222]

The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
white rabbit
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Yeah,I believe its called "number 2"-009 sound system.

Btw,it's M1 property,not R1.
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The refrigeration system gives him away.. lol

 Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222 Are you the person on youtube who made the chloroform and ether distillation videos? And is that in your house? [Edited on 27-5-2010 by Chainhit222]
MagicJigPipe
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I wish I was a millionaire, too.

Imagine how much something like that would cost straight from the catalog.

"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think, free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
azo
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you don't have to have lots of money! do what i do buy it from a glass blower that manufactures labortory glassware.
when you buy from resellers they wack the price on just think if it goes through two or three sets of hands

regards azo.
watson.fawkes
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 Quote: Originally posted by azo do what i do buy it from a glass blower that manufactures labortory glassware.
The ASGS (American Scientific Glassblowing Society) publishes a list of their members by region: ASGS Find a Glassblower. It is, I believe, an opt-in list, so there shouldn't be a problem about cold calling.

There's a similar British society. I don't know if there's one or not for Europe.
white rabbit
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I got most of my glassware on ebay. The large condenser retails for $1100 I got it for$250
Mildronate
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My glasblower cant make 50 liter flask

[Edited on 5-6-2010 by Mildronate]
Jimmymajesty
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Hey! Nice piece of glasswares upthread

For simple distillation e.g butyl acetate I use a bucket of water.
For more cold intense applications e.g. pyrolysis of acetone I use an ice cube maker, hacked to cool continously the recirk. is done by a small circulating pump, ~30w.
For vigorous reactons, eg nitrosation, I use liquid butane, computer duster spray upside down..
white rabbit
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Thanks.
I have recently modified the design of my water cooler and it's a great improvement over the first design. The new evap coil is 18 feet of 5/16 inch copper tubing sleeved with 5/8 inch poly tubing in which the water is circulated. This design was cheaper and easier to make, also much more efficient.

Jimmymajesty
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This cooler rig of yours seems pretty cool

I also planned to modify a window air conditioner, namely I wanted to replace the evaporator to a long copper coil, but I was told that if I had tinkered the setup, the calculated flow rates, residence time of the gases, pressure in the evaporator, buddha-knows-what, would differ from the factory adjusted values, so I would only fuck up the air conditoner..

Anyway I would not use plastic tube for that purpose, as it shrinks a lot (source of leaks) and becomes brittle at certain temps, also the frosen water can clog the tube. just make a couple of circles out of copper tubing and immerse it into a thermally insulated bucket of water.
white rabbit
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I've tried the coil in a bucket and it doesn't work as well. Modifications to window units are not a problem. The system is charged by temp/pressure and it has a low pressure switch which prevents the evap coil from freezing up. I can very easily adjust the water temp from 32* and up.
mr.crow
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Cool I love the makeshift heat exchanger

Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
mnick12
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I am currently working on a cooler for my condenser that should be able to reach sub-zero temperatures. It going to be based on a few thermoelectric coolers AKA Peltier modules. It is going to consist of a insulated reservoir containing a small amount of propylene glycol based antifreeze as the coolant. The coolant will be pumped into a water block on the cold side of the cooler, while the hot side will have a good heat sink for maximum efficiency. I will have two or three of these in a row and the cooled glycol will go directly to my condenser and the used glycol will be led back into the reservoir for re-cooling. All the parts are fairly cheap, the most expensive piece are the water blocks. And this should only cost me a few cents an hr to run. The key here is not to have to much coolant.

Stay tuned for when the coolers get here, once finished I will post some pictures.
kabloona
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using 5 or 6 sealed blue ice in a camping style ice chest with equal amount in the freezer works well, they have to be exchanged about every 12 hrs.
densest
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@mnick12 - have you checked out the power in vs heat pumped curves for thermoelectric modules? It might be a surprise... a typical module consumes 20W while pumping 13W across a 30C temperature differential. Cascading them doesn't help, really, either, except to achieve higher delta-T than a single module can.

They're useful where small size, mechanical simplicity, and especially quick and accurate temperature control are important. A rule-of-thumb I've heard is to consider a mechanical refrigerator if you need to pump more than 50W or to achieve more than 50C temperature differential.

See http://www.tellurex.com/technology/design-manual.php
 Quote: The Thermoelectric "Sweet Spot" Ninety percent of all practical applications for thermoelectric technology fall within a very narrow range of operating conditions. 1. Temperature differential (Delta T) between 30°C and 50°C 2. Thermoelectric module current draw (l) between 70% and 80% of IMAX, and 3. Co-efficient of performance (COP) between 0.25 and 0.4.

The COP is the ratio of heat pumped to power input so that means 2.5 to 4X power in to heat pumped! A mechanical refrigerator can have a COP as high as 10 (pump 10X as much heat as power in!) - no, you can't get perpetual motion

Stirling cycle heat pumps look really (ahem) cool... expensive, though. Any company whose website doesn't have a single price number on it probably charges cubic money. The stirling coolers are best from -50C down to 60K or so. Oh well, when they show up on labx or ebay at salvage prices, I'll get one.

[Edited on 9-7-2010 by densest]
Contrabasso
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Peltier modules usually work well in situations that can't accept a refrigeration cooler, ie it's too small, They are also used to move heat where there is a huge cold sink to get rid of the heat, especially in avionics where the outside air is well below zeroC and moving very fast!

The usefulness of a peltier module can be determined by the uselessness of the usual picnic drinks cooler
peach
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You're making this far too complicated for regular distillations.

Get a cool box and save up lots of fizzy drinks bottles. Fill them with water, throw them in the freezer. Drop a little submersible pump into the cool box and add some hoses. I used a tiny Hozelock garden fountain pump I found in the garage, and screwed / siliconed a brass hose barb onto the outlet. You can get similar pumps for literally $5-15 dollars. When it's time to distill, let the cold tap run for a minute to get the cool water though and then fill the cooler and hook it up to the condenser. If you're distilling low BP's, particularly under vacuum, throw in your plastic bottles. You can use cold packs if you want, but plastic bottles work fine and are essentially free. If you pack the cooler with bottles and have just enough water to surround them, it'll probably still have ice in it the next day. I run B24 glass and liters through mine and it'll take hours and hours for the condenser to ever get much above 0C, which is fine for things like DCM. For the majority of distillations, you won't even need the bottles of ice. Combined with a short coil condenser, 99% of your solvent will be liquid as soon as it touches the coil, let alone near the exit. I can run the cool box up towards 6 hours, and it'll be cold enough there'll be water dripping off the condenser hoses. I believe the earlier funnies about double coil grahams condensers are because a grahams is usually a single coil surrounded by water. Multicoils are the other way around and are called coil / reflux / Dimroth condensers. A Dimroth is just a coil condenser, but the return at the end of the coil goes back up and comes out back up at the top, near where the water goes in / out. That is some nice gear White Rabbit! Congradulations! I hope you washed that DCM before distilling it, it looks like it's full of polymer shit. You shouldn't be subjecting such nice gear to that muck. A similar tune to White Rabbit's, featuring the crazy hula hoop girl ---> follow the link 'Why every guy should buy his girlfriend a real hula hoop' for the dirtier version That tune also sounds a little like Please (don't) Stop Me, by Planet Funk [Edited on 15-7-2010 by peach] white rabbit Harmless Posts: 33 Registered: 29-11-2009 Member Is Offline Mood: Groovy Hey thanks, Peach. That polymer$hit seems to be highly soluble in water and cleaned up nicely.

Btw, thanks for the links! ( I didn't find anything dirty about it) It was beautiful!
mnick12
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Well the peltiers came a few days ago they are neet little things, but I have not had to much time to mess around with them. Also I am thinking that I may just use them to make a cloud chamber or a soda chiller instead of a condenser cooler. There are loads of fun projects you can do with these little things,
uchiacon
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hey guys, why not just run your condenser water through a metal pipe coil inside a small fridge?

Couldn't you get a flat coil of copper or aluminum pipe, cut two holes through the sides of it, and have the coil right at the back?
With one of those really small fridges,it'd be able to handle a decent amount of heat right?

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » Condenser cooling Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues