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Author: Subject: S2Cl2 ?
thaflyemcee
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[*] posted on 14-8-2009 at 23:03
S2Cl2 ?


I'm new to the world of not buying stuff from Sigma or Acros, so bear with me as I ask this:

I'm trying to find a place to buy disulfur dichloride, because preparing it from CS2 or direct chlorination of sulfur doesn't seem like a plan. My ultimate goal is the synthesis of tetrasulfur tetranitride (S4N4), and S2Cl2 seems to be the precursor of choice for that material. If anyone one knows where I might find this (and it's not on the commonly found chemicals page), I'd really appreciate it.

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kclo4
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 00:33


I doubt you'll be able to get it if it isn't from a place like Sigma or Acros.

making it using chlorine and molten sulfur really isn't that bad if you do it correctly. You only need to produce about 20mls before you can just dissolve the sulfur into the refluxing S2Cl2 while bubbling chlorine into the mix.

The synthesis of S2Cl2, and SCl2 has been discussed on this forum, so I won't go into anymore detail, as I am afraid I could get this thread off topic, but I really doubt you'll find a decent supplier.




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Jor
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 01:05


And I wouldn't buy them, even if I would would find a source, as they are direct precursors to mustard gas. They are on CWC3 AFAIK.
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thaflyemcee
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 08:00


Mustard gas itself, is but I don't think the sulfur halides themselves. I suppose making it myself is fine as long as yields aren't going to be wretched.

Thanks
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 11:43


Quote: Originally posted by thaflyemcee  
Mustard gas itself, is but I don't think the sulfur halides themselves.


Think again.

http://www.noblis.org/MissionAreas/nsi/BackgroundonChemicalW...
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kclo4
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 12:40


The yields are not bad at all, but really it will depend on your apparatus and a few other things such as how dry your chlorine is, how fast it is being produced, how hot the sulfur is, and how well the reflux condenser is cooled.

I've never bothered with yield when it came to this reaction, I didn't dry my chlorine, and didn't monitor temperature. I made sure the condenser condensed everything really well, however. I remember being pretty happy with the amount of SxCl2 I got mL's wise.




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JohnWW
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 21:41


If Thaflyemcee really wants S2Cl2 to use to make mustard gas, who is he going to go to war against, using the stuff? I suppose a legitimate use of it could be to gas animal pests and vermin that inhabit burrows or holes, like rabbits, but PH3 generated from the hydrolysis of Ca3P2 or Na3P would do the job more efficiently.
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thaflyemcee
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[*] posted on 15-8-2009 at 21:57


Indeed, though I stand corrected on CWC3. Oops. It's still by far the most effective route to tetrasulfur tetranitride, though. And that compound is a non-negotiable component of my work. On the other hand, since the synthesis requires anhydrous NH3 as well, the whole "OMG you use ammonia to make meth" hysteria might be a factor. Perhaps the route via ammonium chloride is better.
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kclo4
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[*] posted on 16-8-2009 at 11:59


It uses gaseous anhydrous ammonia doesn't it? You could make that in a single preparation and never have to store it, etc. So that shouldn't really show much of a problem.

ammonium chloride is also used by methcooks for the preparation of certain things, though it isn't watched. For those who are truly ignorant to chemistry, saying ammonia (they'll assume the common cleaning product) is probably less scary then ammonium chloride. They won't know what ammonium chloride is, and so their imagination will be able to run wildly - is it the fertilizer explosive? is it used in meth? etc. If they ask how ammonium chloride is made.. then you're back to ammonia and an acid! (omfg!)


Just don't talk to people about that stuff,or how it is made and you'll avoid the problem completely. In fact, you shouldn't be talking to people about it anyways if you are making sulfur nitrides since it is an explosive compound.




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[*] posted on 16-8-2009 at 20:34


Ammonia gas can be made for synthesis of the tetrasulfur tetranitride by adding a concentrated solution of sodium hydroxide to solid ammonium sulfate in a 1L RBF and leading the gas through a drying column. The ammonia must be anhydrous or else it will hydrolyse the sulfur chloride. The sulfur chloride must be saturated with chlorine before passing the ammonia through it. Carbon tetrachloride is the usual solvent, but is unavailable. Methylene chloride or petrolium ether could be substitutes. Please see Jolly's inorganic lab book for a student scale prep that yields about 20g of product. I have always wanted to try this synthesis, but I have not gotten around to it yet.



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thaflyemcee
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[*] posted on 19-8-2009 at 20:35


There's a literature prep that I'm using. The ultimate product is polythiazyl, though that's a topic for another thread. If anyone else is interested in this material, please PM me so we can discuss it. Or I'll start a thread if there's interest in that.
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[*] posted on 19-8-2009 at 22:36


Please start a thread about it. Never do such discussions about interesting chemicals through PM. You only have one other person participating and more than just the two of you may be interested.



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[*] posted on 20-8-2009 at 05:02


'Toxic Chemicals

"Any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. This includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere."

Riot Control Agent

"Any chemical not listed in a Schedule, which can produce rapidly in humans sensory irritation or disabling physical effects which disappear within a short time following termination of exposure."

Precursor

"Any chemical reactant which takes part at any stage in the production by whatever method of a toxic chemical. This includes any key component of a binary or multicomponent chemical system. (For the purpose of implementing this Convention, precursors which have been identified for the application of verification measures are listed in Schedules contained in the Annex on Chemicals.)"'

Pretty broad definitions...by those rules, water should be banned. And isn't 25g of table salt lethal?
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