Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Acetyl Chloride Megathread
kclo4
National Hazard
****




Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 18:45
Acetyl Chloride Megathread


RCOOH and ROH are not similiar at all.
I don't think your proposed method is possibly, or practical. Have you seen any references that make you think that you can produce acyl chlorids using hydrogen chloride?

Your reaction forms water, which will react with the acyl chlorides, if your proposed reaction is even possible.





View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Ozone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Integrated

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 19:07


No. No. No. No. And, No.

Thionyl chloride is great, it's just hard to get (and a fume hood is really nice). There is already a big thread (and many satellites) on this.

See:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=8674#p...

Please try out the search engine.

Best,

O3

[edit] Where did the original post go? 10:08 US CT.



[Edited on 9-9-2009 by Ozone]




-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ketel-one
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Pluto (planet?)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 19:13


What about manganes chloride followed by lithium oxide then? MnCl2 + 2 LiO + 2 CH3COOH = 2 CH3COCl + MnO2 + 2 LiOH
Perfect!

Yes I know ozone thanks its just there's no way in hell I'll be able to get thionyl chloride or Phosphorous trichloride (except maybe the second one if I spend a week scraping matchbooks)

[Edited on 9-9-2009 by ketel-one]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kclo4
National Hazard
****




Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 19:27


Seriously, what happened to the first post?

Quote:
What about manganes chloride followed by lithium oxide then? MnCl2 + 2 LiO + 2 CH3COOH = 2 CH3COCl + MnO2 + 2 LiOH
Perfect!


WTF?
That is as bad as using sodium and carbon to make calcium and nitrogen!

Read a bit up on chemistry.




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
ketel-one
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Pluto (planet?)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 19:49


I'm just thinking there's got to be some other chlorinating agents, something besides phosphorous that prefers to have an "OH" over a "Cl"
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kclo4
National Hazard
****




Posts: 916
Registered: 11-12-2004
Location:
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 20:20


Its not an OH group, it doesn't act like one at all.
Its a COOH group.
Carboxylic acid vs alcohol.

They act completely different.




View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
ketel-one
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Pluto (planet?)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 20:52


I suppose phosgene can make AcCl... And I suppose it can be made from chloroform... And I suppose chloroform can be made by bubbling chlorine through acetone + NaOH.......

I wonder if there's a one-pot way so I never actually get phosgene, like AcOH in chloroform + MnO2 or something... I've heard phosgene is ocasionally toxiic

[Edited on 9-9-2009 by ketel-one]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
DJF90
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2266
Registered: 15-12-2007
Location: At the bench
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-9-2009 at 23:13


Don't even go there. If you have any sense you'll stay away from phosgene.
Quote:

I've heard phosgene is ocasionally toxiic

You're joking right? Occasionally toxic?! You think it chooses when it wants to poison you?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 8020
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 00:19


Ketel-one, it is time you first pick up some books on basic general chemistry and once you have finished studying them, then it is time to ppick up some books on basic organic chemistry and study them ;)

The things you write are so incredibly nonsensical that it really makes me laugh. Just to name a few:

LiO --> does not exist
LiOH combined with CH3COCl --> Do you really think these two can coexist in the same pot?
MnCl2 as chlorinating agent --> Maybe table salt works better

If you want to make CH3COCl, then you need stuff like SOCl2, POCl3, PCl5 or C3N3Cl3. It might be that C6H5COCl also works. These -yl chlorides (acid chlorides) all are really nasty chemicals and safely handling them requires a good fume hood and protective gear. Someone with your knowledge and experience better can stay far away from that kind of chemicals. This kind of chemicals is hard to obtain anyway, some of them being CWC-listed precursors.




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
ketel-one
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 55
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Pluto (planet?)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 06:03


Right, right don't know what I was thinking, I guess PCl3 is the best bet then... I just noticed in organic forums somebody had similar idea to dehydrate water out with sulfuric acid... But screw it I've never made anything this hard before it prob. wouldn't work anyways.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
panziandi
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 490
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: UK
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bored

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 07:13


Ketel you will have serious issues using PCl3.

PCl3 is very toxic (600ppm is lethal within minutes), corrosive and fumes quite badly. Releasing HCl, it also smells funny, I don't like working with it. In addition it boils at 76.1 °C. And scraping P off match boxes is not the best... You'll never get enough! Surely?

Thionyl chloride would be easier to make! UTFSE and find the various threads on how to make this compound, it is far more versatile than the phosphorus halides. Then again it is just as toxic and corrosive.

Not to mention how flammable and reactive acetyl chloride is, I hope you have really thought this through? Because your first couple of posts regarding ionic halides as chlorinating and having acid and base co-existing seem to lack some fundamental chemical knowledge...





View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
*****




Posts: 1612
Registered: 30-5-2009
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fissile

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 12:27


Of course it will make acetaldhyde. AcCl is even easier:

AcOH + NaCl -> AcCl + NaOH. Salt and vinegar. Go for it.

Please tell me you're just a troll. I'd hate to think you're really that stupid.

Man, get some chemistry books and read them and come back with some half-way intelligent questions. Until you've finished that assignment, just go away. Thanks.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
entropy51
Gone, but not forgotten
*****




Posts: 1612
Registered: 30-5-2009
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fissile

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 14:16


My reaction is no more stupid than any of yours, thank you very much!:P

Now log off your computer and read a chemistry book!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Ozone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Integrated

[*] posted on 9-9-2009 at 14:30


...heard phosgene is ocasionally toxiic...

I suppose it causes brain damage the rest of the time?

I can only hope this is hypothetical.

O3




-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Nicodem
Super Moderator
*******




Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 11-9-2009 at 04:14


I'm closing this thread because the habit of the original poster to delete his posts (even the original one!) is too annoying and confusing. And also because some members here forgot that this is the Beginnings section where it is permitted to the newcomers to act stupid, lazy, ignorant or whatever they please, while it is not well tolerated to offend and flame them for being such.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Thread Closed
11-9-2009 at 04:15

  Go To Top