| Pages:
1
2 |
hasani10
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 24-5-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Elemental Mercury from cinnabar
I recently tried to make elemental mercury by chemically reducing it. By making a polysulfide complex with HgS and then reduction with aluminium. When
i tried this i must have not actually made a polysulfide solution so when i added the aluminium (stupidly in powder form) there was no reaction.
I would like to filter off the powder HgS and Al and try this reaction again but i want to separate the Al from the HgS first to stop a runaway
reaction when i try it again. Is this necessary?
I was thinking of reacting the powder with sulfuric acid; HgS would have no reaction and the Al would react to produce soluble Al2(SO4)3, i could then
filter off pure HgS from the solution. Would this work?
Sorry in advance if this is the wrong space to post this question this is the first experience i've had with the forum.
Thanks 
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wow that was the longest duration between register time and 1st post i've ever seen
|
|
|
Amos
International Hazard
Posts: 1406
Registered: 25-3-2014
Location: Yes
Member Is Offline
Mood: No
|
|
red mercury(II) sulfide, natural or artificial, is well-known for its extreme inertness to acids and bases; it can even be swallowed and safely passed
without substantial mercury absorption. I'd suggest getting rid of the aluminium with some dilute NaOH solution, which in my experience seems to react
a lot faster and more completely than acids. Maybe you could try roasting the cinnabar with an oxygen supply or oxidizing agent at high temperature to
distill the vapor out? Definitely not inside your domicile?
|
|
|
hasani10
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 24-5-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ahah yeah i've just been using the forums to look at other projects and ideas up until now.
Thanks Amos dilute NaOH seems like a much easier way to go than sulfuric acid. I'm going to go through a chemical method as opposed to a thermal
method because i don't want to deal with mercury vapor AT ALL! Chemical method creates more waste but i can dispose of this safely so that doesn't
bother me.
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1232
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
use sodium hydroxide or sulphuric acid, cinnabar is pretty much inert to common aqueous chemistry. once the Al is removed dry the HgS and heat it in a
closed metal retort (you canget the idea from Cody's Lab) HgS will decompose and you can distill mercury metal
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
Has anybody tried distilling Hg from HgS and Al dust?
|
|
|
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | | Has anybody tried distilling Hg from HgS and Al dust? |
I have some HgS, but this stuff was *really* expensive!! (it's the most expensive chemical I've ever purchased). I can get elemental Hg much
cheaper. I'd love to find a source for reasonably priced HgS.
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Mr. Rogers]
|
|
|
unionised
International Hazard
Posts: 5102
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well, there's the reaction between sulphur and mercury...
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
I suspect that some of the cinnabar on ebay that sells for ~50 cents/gram from China is actually genuine vermilion, given their history of making and
selling it.
PS I do not suggest a pile of Al with a bunch of pure HgS without investigating the potential for something extreme/uncontrolled/toxic cloud
happening.
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by S.C. Wack]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3558
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I recently received 2g cinnabar for £0.99
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2g-Natural-Red-Cinnabar-Single-Cr...
I have no need of it / I don't mind using it.
If anyone is interested in cinnabar from this seller then I can test my sample.
Any suggestions for an assay (using simple hobby chemistry) ?
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
Tellurium
Hazard to Self
Posts: 84
Registered: 12-7-2017
Location: Group 16, Chalcogen City
Member Is Offline
Mood: smelly
|
|
First thing, that I would look for is the density, cinnabar should have quite a high density of 8,1. Also I would try breaking one of the stones,
because maybe they are just colored rocks
Also in a mixture of hot aqueous NaOH and elemental sulfur the HgS should dissolve.
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Tellurium]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3558
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
Slightly annoying ... I can't think of a method of measuring the density of this 2g sample as I have no equipment to measure small volumes.
My 300g x 0.01g scales should be ok for c2g +/- 1%
... brain dead ... help
_________________________________________________
Edit : Is HgS soluble in sodium polysulphide (I have some) or must it be 'fresh'
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
First one should test that it doesn't dissolve in water or alcohol, as noted by ebay seller lucky*stone...the insolubility in nitric acid until some
HCl is added may be helpful for some ores. Many ores are quite poor, but even so if I lived somewhere like the SF Bay area I'd be out trespassing and
thieving for cinnabar appearing from weathering/mudslides at historic deposits.
Perhaps dry distillation can be done in a closed iron pipe system.
Even being insoluble it is said to react in boiling water on contact with Cu and especially Zn dust. I would think it would be the same with Al,
perhaps with a touch of acid.
|
|
|
Mr. Rogers
Hazard to Others
Posts: 184
Registered: 30-10-2017
Location: Ammonia Avenue
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
But you end up with black HgS while cinnabar is red. I don't want this for chemistry.
[Edited on 21-1-2019 by Mr. Rogers]
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3558
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
My HgS sample is not soluble in a test tube with either boiling IPA or boiling water.
I heated the sample to dryness with no noticeable change,
then I heated it intensely over a candle flame;
the colour appeared to change from the lovely transparent red/scarlet to black
Shaking the cooled sample revealed that the blackening was only on the crystals near to the glass,
the bulk of the crystals are still red.
The crystals settle very quickly after agitation in water so appear to be quite dense.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
See it's true it's lucky stuff.
I wonder how toxic HgS vapor is. They say the Chinese used it to color candles. Maybe they still do...
As the old books tell with specific instructions, vermilion was made by direct combination of the elements and sublimation.
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  | Slightly annoying ... I can't think of a method of measuring the density of this 2g sample as I have no equipment to measure small volumes.
My 300g x 0.01g scales should be ok for c2g +/- 1%
... brain dead ... help
_________________________________________________
Edit : Is HgS soluble in sodium polysulphide (I have some) or must it be 'fresh'
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Sulaiman] |
There's actually a neat way to measure density that only requires an accurate scale; no volumes necessary. First you fill a cup with enough water to
completely submerge the object. Place this on the scale and tare it. Then tie a thin wire or string to the object. Lower the object into the cup so
that it is fully underwater, but NOT touching the sides or bottom of the cup. The scale will give you a reading. This is the weight of the water
displaced by the object. Since the density of water is 1, this is also equivalent to the volume of the object!
Then just weigh the object as normal, divide by the volume, and there's your density.
Edit: Of course, that volume is actually the volume of the object plus the string. For maximum accuracy, you'd have to subtract out the volume of the
string. I used a rigid wire when I did this, so I marked a dot on the wire so I knew how far it dipped underwater. Then I was able to dip just the
wire by itself and measure its volume that way.
[Edited on 1-23-2019 by MrHomeScientist]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6219
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
CodysLab uses this method and his setup minimises the string error. Go to his channel and do a search.
|
|
|
Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3558
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
|
|
I have used this method to determine the density of my silver bullion coins.
The string (I used nylon mono-filament) adds error but worse are any air bubbles adhering to the surface of the object being measured.
This is why I discounted this method for a sample of small crystals.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Shake 'em around a bit underwater, then!
I probably lucked out when I did it because my object was a sphere, so there were few opportunities for bubbles to get trapped.
|
|
|
Johnny Windchimes
Hazard to Self
Posts: 61
Registered: 28-5-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sorry, it's my chimes~!
|
|
Hope this isn't too much of a necropost, but I've had luck with this process:
Attachment: US1718103 - Cinnabar electrolysis to Hg - Copy.pdf (213kB)
This file has been downloaded 345 times
|
|
|
pneumatician
Hazard to Others
Posts: 409
Registered: 27-5-2013
Location: Magonia
Member Is Offline
Mood: ■■■■■■■■■■ INRI ■■■■■■■■■■ ** Igne Natura Renovatur Integra **
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack | See it's true it's lucky stuff.
I wonder how toxic HgS vapor is. They say the Chinese used it to color candles. Maybe they still do...
As the old books tell with specific instructions, vermilion was made by direct combination of the elements and sublimation. |
look this guy
The Ascent of Man: 4 -- The Hidden Structure
https://archive.org/details/theascentofman4thehiddenstructur...
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Slightly annoying ... I can't think of a method of measuring the density of this 2g sample as I have no equipment to measure small volumes.
My 300g x 0.01g scales should be ok for c2g +/- 1%
... brain dead ... help
_________________________________________________
Edit : Is HgS soluble in sodium polysulphide (I have some) or must it be 'fresh'
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Sulaiman] |
Maybe if u obtained a 1 ml cough syrup syringe and crushed your sample if it's cinnibar w/density of 8.1g/ml it should fill the syringe about 1/4
full.
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1232
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by draculic acid69 | | Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Slightly annoying ... I can't think of a method of measuring the density of this 2g sample as I have no equipment to measure small volumes.
My 300g x 0.01g scales should be ok for c2g +/- 1%
... brain dead ... help
_________________________________________________
Edit : Is HgS soluble in sodium polysulphide (I have some) or must it be 'fresh'
[Edited on 19-1-2019 by Sulaiman] |
the density of a powder is not the same as the density of the solid unground material
Maybe if u obtained a 1 ml cough syrup syringe and crushed your sample if it's cinnibar w/density of 8.1g/ml it should fill the syringe about 1/4
full. |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
You are correct.my bad.now that you point it out I get it.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
