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Author: Subject: Schematic for Electrolysis Device
quicksilver
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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 12:44


That looks like a nice design. In fact, the collection of designs in that site are quite nicely laid out.
However "It is a substantial project that is not for the novice constructor." That gentleman was not kidding. But then most of the materials or not too tough to get and the nice thing is how he laid out the PCB.








[Edited on 20-2-2010 by quicksilver]
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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 13:15


It hit me at the same time you typed it. Thank you, however.
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Lambda
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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 14:01


@quicksilver, you had already Edited your Post, but taking the Power Supplies Efficiency into account, @entropy51 has given the correct answer:

If you go from 240 Volt to 120 Volt Primary Supply Voltage, then the current is doubled for:

P = I x V

The Power (P) uptake remains the same, and because only the Voltage (V) changes, the Current (I) will vary accordingly to match up to the same requested Power consumption. In this case, Fuses used will then have twice the Current rating on the Primary. Nothing has to change on the secondary though. Going from 50 Hz to 60 Hz won't make much difference, except that the Bridge capacitors may Theoretically be slightly smaller due to the Higher frequency. But, because these capacitors are often chosen by a rule of thumb, it really isn't a big deal here at all. What I like about these Analog Designs, based on a 723 Chip (or what ever), is that they are far less tricky to design and build for the layman in Electronics, and above all, Indestructible when designed properly. SMP are far to tricky to build, and when components explode, then the mains Voltage Power Supply is often involved, pumping Hundreds of Amps through the(se) Component(s). These explosions can be so violent, that fragments can literary fly right through the skull (read penetrate) of an unfortunate builder. Using a Transformer, also gives far more protection against electrocution while assembling and measuring on these Projects, and less isolation hassle and problems too. If you are not an old grunt in electronics (and they also get electrocuted and killed), then it's best to stay far away from SMP's. Personally, for reasons of safety and reliability, I think we should focus on a Robust Analog Design like the one presented in my previous Post. They have a much higher rate of reproducibility, component availability, safety, and in the end, ... Satisfaction !!

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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 15:06


Quote: Originally posted by Lambda  
What I like about these Analog Designs, based on a 723 Chip (or what ever), is that they are far less tricky to design and build for the layman in Electronics, and above all, Indestructible when designed properly. SMP are far to tricky to build, and when components explode, then the mains Voltage Power Supply is often involved, pumping Hundreds of Amps through the(se) Component(s). These explosions can be so violent, that fragments can literary fly right through the skull (read penetrate) of an unfortunate builder.


Wow, I would be very impressed if electronic shrapnel could penetrate bone.

Fortunately, it can not.

In fact, because your favored analog circuit stores several orders of magnitude more energy than a switching supply, peak currents of thousands of amperes will flow when a device fails. And in a circuit like that, a device can fail quite easily, taking much of the circuit with it.

Switching power supply circuits are getting simpler. All the time. They are more important than ever, and a great incentive for the novice to learn a new technology.

Tim

[Edited on 2-20-2010 by 12AX7]




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Lambda
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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 06:56


Power Supply Design

Power Supply Safety - By Jerrold Foutz (16 January 2005):
http://www.smpstech.com/mtblog/power_supply_safety.html

These Components are all connected directly to the Mains Power Supply:





And many Novice Builders will try and attempt to Fabricate a similar Design, mistakes made by these Components D21-D24, C5-C6, Q1-Q2, D1-D2, can all lead to Violent Explosions. I have known people to have had pieces of exploding components logged in there skull. A member here has known somebody to have had a Tantalum Capacitor blown through his hand, and many people have lost there Eyes by similar incidents. Even more people have been electrocuted, and even Killed by working on similar designs. I often feel very uncomfortable, when working on new Designs of SMP's, but then thats Me, and You are You !

But on the other hand, this still dose not prevent me from working on New SMP's Designs, and for those of You who are also interested, including Me, here You go ...

Curiosity Killed the Cat !



Build a 13.8V, 40A Switching Power Supply:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/PS40/PS40.html

13.8V, 40A Switching Power Supply Schematic:



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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 07:06


Every kind of power supply has its own merits. I do like switched power supplies. They are really compact, are safe to operate and are robust with respect to short circuit and overloading. That's why I made such a lab powersupply from an ATX power supply.

There is one exception where switched power supplies should not be used and that is when your power supply is used to power high voltage devices. I killed one ATX power suppy by connecting a 12 V --> 15 kV converter to it. Suddenly, while I disconnected the 15 kV device from the 12 V wires, the power supply quit. Most likely one of the SMD CMOS devices was killed by means of an electrostatic discharge. So, since then I use a transformer-based simple power suppy with a 25000 uF filter capacitor for high voltage experiments and I use the ATX PSU for electrolysis purposes (it is much lighter and more convenient to handle).




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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 10:33


Once things are working, SMP's are Modern Marvels, Efficient, Light, and Compact. But we are (at least I am) referring to Building one from scratch, and with all the associated dangers involved for the Novice Builder. And I don't mean Converting an existing SMP. But on the other hand, maybe this would indeed be the way to go, for Computer SMP's are now available up to, and above 1000 Watts, and they are dead cheap too. Maybe we should focus on Converting an existing SMP, rewinding the output transformer (maybe not even), and introducing Constant Current Regulation into an existing design.

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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 12:00


I went through all sorts of hassle to find a good deal on a PSU that pumps 30A .....then I find that for $100 I could have gotten a 1000W computer PSU that easily could duplicate that:

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-det...

There are a lot of "you fix it" Lamda and Sorensen professional PS floating around that a novice like myself can occasionally fix. But this 1000w stuff is good to go out of the box. The idea of getting a female main board plug and doing the work outside the PSU is attractive because then you still have your nice 1000w supply if you need it.

What's more if you like sparks and arcs a high frequency supply allows a simpler driver for things like a flyback transformer for a Tesla coil
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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 14:18


While agreeing that SMPS is the way to go for good DC and good voltage stability and with access to current monitoring as well as great low weight and high efficiency. Getting the transformer exactly right for a one off production isn't an easy matter. A simple mains frequency transformer rectifier unit will get volts on tap limited only by the availability of components.
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[*] posted on 21-2-2010 at 17:39


Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver  

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-det...
... The idea of getting a female main board plug and doing the work outside the PSU is attractive because then you still have your nice 1000w supply if you need it.


And on the same WebSite for ~ $50 more:

Ultra X3 ULT40311 1000-Watt Power Supply for $159.99:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-det...

Specs:

Input Voltage: 115 ~ 230
+3.3V: 2 4 A
+5V: 28 A
12V1: 70 A
-12V: 0.8 A
5VSB: 3 A

It's Modular, so you can chose the desired Voltage, and then plug in your own cables without Modifying anything on the PSU itself. The Connectors used on this PSU, are no big deal in respect to availability. You can also sacrifice and use one or more of the Cables that come with the package, for there are usually more (extra) than you need for the average Computer. And Split Junction Cables are also plentiful available, and very cheap too.

Quote: Originally posted by Contrabasso  
... A simple mains frequency transformer rectifier unit will get volts on tap limited only by the availability of components.


Here you have an Ultra Simple Design, with overly abundant Components !

13.8V 20A Linear Power Supply:
http://ludens.cl/Electron/Ps20/Ps20.html

13.8V 20A Linear Power Supply Schematic:


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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 12:09


I've got a couple of questions: one is electrochemical, one for the users of these power supplies.

(a) Does the voltage waveform matter? A simple rectified sine wave goes from zero to 1.4 x RMS AC voltage and back at 2 X line frequency, so the reaction(s) start and stop 100-120 times a second. I don't know if there are chemical reasons this would be bad or good in any particular application. There could easily be time efficiency or cell maintenance implications. For instance, if the peak voltage is 5V and the reaction only starts at 4V, the reaction only runs 40% of the time. If there's a current threshold above which electrodes are damaged, the peaks could cause either unexpected damage or require running a cell at very low time efficiency.

(b) A lot of maximum voltages and currents have been mentioned in this discussion. The range is enough that one design can't cover the whole range while remaining efficient, inexpensive, easy to build (if necessary), easy to apply, and (relatively) safe. Are there sets of applications which require different supply capabilities? I'll throw out some guesses:

A single cell needs current:
test tube size - 0 - 0.5A
bench size - 0-5A
prototype size - 3-30A
lone scientist pilot plant - 10-100A
truly mad scientist basement factory - 25-400A :cool:
truly mad scientist downs cells - 200-2000A :o

A single cell needs voltage:
precious metals, delicate reactions - 0.5 - 5V
serious oxidations - 5-9V
wide electrode spacings or high resistance cells - 7-24V
are there any cells needing more than 24V? At that voltage, even a small current can boil things.

Series connected cells multiply the voltage.
Parallel connected cells multiply the current, but are unwise unless current is monitored per cell.

I'm asking this question in order to understand exactly how people want to use these supplies. All of the major design classes of power supplies have been mentioned. Each have their good and bad points. Choosing the best one for electrolytic service in an amateur lab has unique challenges.

And a suggestion for current regulation: In the "bad old days", people put incandescent lights in series with their cells and changed the wattage depending on how much current they needed. Such a bulb acts as a crude constant current source. The tungsten filament increases in resistance as it heats so that tends to limit current. A big advantage was that the bulbs are already designed to run white hot so hot resistors are not a problem. Put a lamp socket or parallel some sockets in series with your supply (automobile headlights run at 5-8A each, 100W 120V is .8A or so, etc.)

Voltage limiting: mechanical relays can act as voltage sensors.


overvoltage.gif - 3kB
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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 12:56


THAT is (IMO) worth buying if you have "mad money" because you can always use it for a SERIOUS computer.
If a guy [put out some $ for some quality anodes, etc - 70a, that's a talking a real 5 gallon bucket cell! But you KNOW that in about 6 months it will be $98 !!! :D



@ Densest:

I do believe that waveform matters to a degree (if you are talking about what is immediately going into the cell) because what will pass to the anode will be altered in it's usage. More informed individuals will provide more in- depth material. I am not a 'scope user, so I imagine that you get what you get. Either the wave form plays well with what it's going into or not.
To use the above relay oriented setup may only result in a short from your mains (if that's your supply). If your supply is is separate, & NOT switchable my belief is that it will overheat.
I have a switchable a Sorensen,a Lamda & computer PSU. When I use a straight Radio Shack or home made I am fighting a heat battle that really needs the switching transistors (TO-3's) and several resistors "beefed up"; able to handle much more than the rated current or I will harm the supply. That's why one often sees home-made supplies with towering heat sinks and fans. I would bet that if you peeked at the transistors, resistors and rectifier, they would be rated much higher than the stock wattage, etc. This is the difference between a $19 12v 3A from Radio Shack & a switchable rack mounted supply from Raython for $400. This is why the computer PSU is a FANTASTIC thing and the alterations - a true gift to hobbyists. :P



[Edited on 22-2-2010 by quicksilver]
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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 13:47


The wave form does matter in electrolysis. But just adding a filter capacitor of sufficient capacity solves the problem without reducing efficiency very much. When currents of tens of amperes are needed, then you need a big capacitor, e.g. 100000 uF. But these do not need to have large physical size, because the rated voltage for this capacitor does not need to be high. A good thing is to buy multiple capacitors, e.g. 5 pieces of 22000 uF/25 volts. These are not really expensive and using a parallel circuit of 5 of these allows big currents to flow through the total capacitor.



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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 15:14


Power Supply Design eBook Collection:

Power Supply Cookbook (EDN Series for Design Engineers) - 2nd Edition - By Marty Brown (Newnes & Butterworth-Heinemann - 2001) 278s - Including Bookmarks.pdf

Switching Power Supply Design - 3rd Edition - By Abraham I. Pressman, Keith Billings & Taylor Morey (McGraw-Hill - 2009) 880s - Including Bookmarks.pdf

Practical Switching Power Supply Design - By Martin C. Brown (Academic Press - 1990) 258s - Including Bookmarks.pdf

Regulated Power Supplies - 4th Edition - By Irving M. Gottlieb (TAB Books - 1992) 476s (d).pdf

PCB Layout Guidelines for Power Supply Engineers.rar


as

Power Supply.rar

iFile.it Download Link (34.13 MB):
http://ifile.it/fpmaz2u

No Password Required !

Note:

@quicksilver, you may find the following Excellent eBook of particular interest, for it's chockablock full of Schematics, and Theory (Included in the Download):

Regulated Power Supplies - 4th Edition - By Irving M. Gottlieb (TAB Books - 1992) 476s (d).pdf

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Enjoy !

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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 15:29


Hello,

I looked at some waveforms from crude supplies accross a Chlorate cell.

http://oxidizing.110mb.com/chlorate/raw.html

With no Caps. the current drops to zero between Voltage 'humps', with Caps. it stays flowing all the time with ripple. The exact implications of ripple would be hard to ascertain. Best to use lots of Caps. if you think it may have negative effect on what you are doing. With a Chlorate cell it does not matter a bit IMO.

Platinum Anodes do NOT like ripple at 50Hz or less at it wears them but that is not a problem for us as the worst we are goint to have is 100Hz ripple. If you were to start with a supply with a single diode doing the rectification when it would be a problem but no one would be doing that.

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[*] posted on 22-2-2010 at 21:50


At a given Mains Frequency of 50 Hz or 60 Hz, once you know the Load Current, then the Filter Capacitor can be Calculated to give Voltage Waveform X.

DC Power Supply Design:
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Design/dcpsu.htm

But as @dann2 had remarked, if the exact implications of ripple would be hard to ascertain, then Calculating the Capacitor becomes a little problematic. Introducing a Coil between the Diode Bridge, and Capacitor(s), will make the Ripple even smaller. But then again, will this extra addition be of any benefit, unless used as an Adjustable Coil and Current Soak. Introducing an Adjustable Constant Current Soak into the system, would seem to me the way to go. Unless other Design Topologies are used.

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[*] posted on 23-2-2010 at 00:31


Having worked in commercial electro plating, the power supplies we used were three phase transformer rectifier units off the mains. Three phase means that the ripple is less but as several electrodes passed 2 - 3 KA and the conductors looked like copper girders there was NO attempt at further smoothing. Smaller units ran off single phase with no smoothing.

For people who want good DC then a motor/car alternator system may give poly phase DC from an AC supply and if you can rework the regulator then all is possible.
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[*] posted on 23-2-2010 at 10:23


Introducing Soft-Start into our Power Supply !

“Soft-Start” is a device for Limiting High Short-Lasting Current in the moment of attaching the Transformer onto the Network. It is suggested for the Transformers on a Power range of 300 – 3000VA (Definitely >500VA) and with Primary Voltage of 230V (and also 110V). A device is to be installed in an appropriate box, or directly inside a device.

Soft-Start of about 05-1 Second is advisable for 300 – 3000VA Transformers. When Paralleling many MOT's for enhancing Serial Higher output Voltages at Very High Current (You can only do this if the Secondary is Rewound to a Low Voltage, and NOT in it's original configuration as used in a Microwave Oven). Advantages of Putting Transformers in Series are; Higher Output Power, and the ease of Introducing Variable Output Voltages WITHOUT having to Switch the Output Voltage (via Junction Taps) at Very High Currents. However, the Transformer(s) left Turned OFF, will then act as an Impedance Inductor (Coil), and Soak the Current (Limiting Maximum Current of the Transformer(s) Turned ON).

Soft-Start Circuit for Power Amps:
http://sound.westhost.com/project39.htm

Soft-Start Resistors and Relay Contacts:


Auxiliary Transformer Control Circuit:


Using Soft-Start Resistors in Series may be advisable with a primary voltage of 230V:


Soft-Start Circuit for Power Amps:
http://www.electronicsinfoline.com/Projects/Electronics/Audi...

Soft-Start Circuit for Power Amps Schematic (similar to the above Schematic, but now with a 12 Volt (D1) Voltage limiting Zener Diode):


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[*] posted on 23-2-2010 at 13:02


@ Lambda: Thank you, that stuff is truly appreciated.


woelen's illustration of parallel capacitors is a great way to save money. It will certainly smooth out waveform and is commonly used in small drivers for getting sparks from flyback transformers which have to have high frequency smooth supply. One look at Mouser's catalog will show the monitary difference between a big old Coke can cap and several 20000uf. This stuff doesn't HAVE to cost big $.
One little issue I discovered is to not go chintzy on the traces or wire connections on a project that carries fairly strong current: make your connections thick!
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[*] posted on 23-2-2010 at 14:18


Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver  
@ Lambda: Thank you, that stuff is truly appreciated.

@quicksilver, You are Welcome ! ;)

High Quality Siemens Capacitor; In Deutschland ist alles immer Besser ! :cool:



High Quality Mallory Capacitor:



High Quality Sprague Capacitor; I would Dump the Coke Can anyday for this Capacitor ! :P



A Scrapyard is an Excellent place to find Large Capacitors etc., especially in Linear Power Supply Appliances:



Car Audio Shops Sell Hugh Capacitors of 1 Farad !!, and even Higher Values: :o



Remark:

Electrolytic Capacitors typically go bad in Older Equipment with age, and lack of use. The Aluminum Oxide Past tends to Crystallize, and instead of acting like a Capacitor, it acts like a Conductor, taking out Transformers and Rectifiers !! :(

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[*] posted on 25-2-2010 at 14:13


Pulse your Capacitor Bank by Opto-Isolated Zero Cross Triac Firing Transformer Pre-Regulation

This is an Idea that I have for a Pulse Charged Capacitor Power Supply with Constant Current Pre-Regulation, while minimalizing Power Loss in the Regulatory Network.

By keeping the voltage low over a Constant Current Source, you will enjoy the satisfaction of having enough room for good and stable Current Control Regulation, while at the same time minimalizing power loss in this Control Circuit. This may also be referred to as Transformer Pre-Regulation. By doing this at the Zero Crossing Point, High Turn-On Currents and Inductive Spikes are avoided. In Theory, the Transformer can be Fired 100 Times per Second at a Mains Frequency of 50Hz, and 120 Time per Second at a mains Frequency of 60Hz. In this way it's possible to Charge the capacitor Bank according to your needs of Power Uptake of the Electrolysis Cell. The Transformer will be Triac Driven via an Optically Isolated/Separated Zero Crossing Triac Driver Chip.

Application Notes:

AN-3003 - Applications of Random Phase Crossing Triac Drivers (Fairchild Semiconductor, Rev.4.07, 2006).pdf
Attachment: AN-3003 - Applications of Random Phase Crossing Triac Drivers (Fairchild Semiconductor, Rev.4.07, 2006).pdf (462kB)
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AN-3004 - Applications of Zero Voltage Crossing Optically Isolated Triac Drivers (Fairchild Semiconductor, Rev.4.00, 2002).pdf
Attachment: AN-3004 - Applications of Zero Voltage Crossing Optically Isolated Triac Drivers (Fairchild Semiconductor, Rev.4.00, 200 (368kB)
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Examples of Chips with a Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output with Optocoupler separation of the Driver Stage:

DataSheetCatalog.com:
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/fairchildsemiconductor/258/

Part Name, Description, Manufacturer

MOC3162-M 6-Pin DIP Zero-Cross Optoisolators Triac Driver Output - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162FM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162FR2M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162FR2VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162FVM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162SM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162SR2M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162SR2VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162SVM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162TM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162TVM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3162VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163 6-PIN DIP ZERO-CROSS PHOTOTRIAC DRIVER OPTOCOUPLER - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163 6-PIN DIP ZERO-CROSS PHOTOTRIAC DRIVER OPTOCOUPLER - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163-M 6-Pin DIP Zero-Cross Optoisolators Triac Driver Output - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163FM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163FR2M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163FR2VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163FVM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163SM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163SR2M 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163SR2VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163SVM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163TM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor
MOC3163VM 6-Pin 600V Zero Crossing Triac Driver Output Optocoupler - Fairchild Semiconductor

By choosing a region of about 5 Volts (maybe less if Current Fluctuation is not too High, and the capacitor bank has sufficient Farad Capacity) above the Voltage for the Current Source to operate stable in, witch is constantly measured by an OpAmp (as Differential Amplifier), and fed to a VCO (Voltage Controlled Oscillator) witch then fires the Triac. The smaller the Voltage becomes in this predetermined region of 5 Volts, the faster the Triac is Fired a the Zero Crossing Point to charge up the Capacitor Bank. And the Higher the Voltage becomes above this predetermined 5 Volt point, then the Firing rate is slowed down accordingly to counteract too high a deviation.

Using Zero Crossing Solid State Relays is an other alternative. I have managed to find about 50 of these Solid State Relays ranging between 25 and 100 amps in a Scrap Yard. They have a Trigger Voltage of 3-32 Volts at a few Milli Amps.

Solid State ReIays SSR.pdf
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Solid State Relays:
http://www.elco-italy.com/eng/index.php?option=com_content&a...

Triac Solid State Relays:
http://www.elco-italy.com/eng/index.php?option=com_content&a...



Portishead - Glory Box:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxsopQLZpCI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQyUdMdLZ18

Lambda
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[*] posted on 26-2-2010 at 00:36


Ewww, phase control. I thought that died in the 70s.

Tim




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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 26-2-2010 at 08:28


Mouser has SS relays - they are NOT cheap. A BIG triac is often found in Microwave ovens.
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Lambda
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[*] posted on 26-2-2010 at 11:32


@quicksilver,

The only Mouser that I would like to have is a Gun !



But if You buy an SSR from Mouser, then a Wheelbarrow of Cash is required !



But on eBay ...

SSR 40A 24~250VAC Input 5~32VDC NEW for €13.50 from the Netherlands, but NOT Me:





SSR 25A SOLID STATE RELAY. OUTPUT OPERATING 24~380V AC (NEW) for £9.40 or €10.60 from the UK, but NOT my Brother:



CRYDOM D2440 SOLID STATE RELAY NEW for $12.99 from the United States, but also NOT my other Brother:



SOLID STATE RELAY, OPTO22, 240D25, 25AMP, 3-32VDC CONTR for£4.99 from the UK, my Sister is also NOT Involved:



If You are also Manic Depressive like I am, and hesitant to Jump, then David Sylvian will shore as hell push You right over the Cliff in "Flying" Colors ...

David Sylvian -- Nostalgia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBupS5PMMsc

Lambda (I am still alive, ... but barely ... :( )
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[*] posted on 28-2-2010 at 13:43


I attempted an experiment wherein I used a 2 L cell with MMO anode Ti cathode and super saturated solution of Cl @70C. I started the cell at a level of current much higher than I normally would at 30A. The salt did NOT appear to settle out. It stayed at 60C for approx 2 days and at that point I backed off to 15A as the level of Cl was quite high (both from colour and gas venting. A small bit got on a shirt and bleached it SO fast and viciously, it became white and the threads become near to dropping apart. Super Bleach!

I allowed this solution to maintain for 8 days. At the end of which I emptied the cell & recrystallized the material within. It was KCLO3 & appeared to be pure by both crystal structure, tests from colour, H2SO4 and the making of a few differing coloured stars. Additionally the "window-pane crystals fell out at an increasing rate due to taking the heated solution and placing it in a refrigerated environment; once the bottom of the flask was covered, the formation was extremely fast. I only wish I has a decent movie camera because the formation was unique in speed.
I was very surprised that a percentage of that was not plain salt. but the level of current was very high from such a small cell and the speed in which current was applied was immediate.

Upon completion I attempted this at a lower level of current (3A) and the cathode (perforated type) would clog with material and the original salt DID remain at a level of approx 50gr. It appear that a super saturated solution CAN be utilized IF the level of current is high enough and applied quickly enough prior to the hot solution to cool down and higher levels of potassium chloride to drop out. With 70-80C water would digest 420 gr, cooled down 330 would remain in solution.


I did finally find a scrapyard with electronics and was overjoyed to find that I now can buy some things without working with eBay. And you all are absolutely correct as the above ss relays did sell fo about $9USA. The best thing is to go when the proprietor is at lunch as I got another powerfully switchable (this time a company called QSI that was bought out by Lamda) that pumped 150A. So I am busy setting up a 5 gallon cell and seeing what can be done with graphite gouging rods. I don't want to risk my MMO on current of that level.
IF anyone wants I have the address and phone. They may ship overseas. They do have a a small stack of rack mounted PSU (Lamda's mostly) but they are, your luck. I got one that needed a new filter cap (that they had) for $30! plus a new cap at $15. PM me if you want details.



[Edited on 1-3-2010 by quicksilver]
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