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Waffles SS
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 04:53
Ethanol from Newspaper


Iam searchingh on producing ethanol from newspaper.
As you know newspaper contain cellulose and i am searching on enzyme that convert cellulose to ethanol.
somebody has information about that?
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bquirky
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 05:23


Hello, im not trying to be rude but i think your after plain old yeast !

But the yeast can only eat sugar so to feed them newspaper you nead to go through 2 steps.

Celulose -> startch startch -> sugar

The efficent execution of the last two steps is the subject of intense reserch but basicly there are two major ways to convert celulose to startch that is the application of heat. or the action of an acid or both.

Starch to suger can be preformed by an emzime an acid or by heat or combinations of the above.

but sugar to ethanol is all about the yeast :)

if you want to make some ethanol. get stuck into brewing with yeast and sugar. and distill out the ethanol.

once you get that working you can work on turning newspaper into sugar.

but feel free to burn the newspaper to fuel the distalation process !
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 06:46


Do you just need a way to make ethanol (fairly) cheaply, or are you actually trying to do some process research? If it's the former, just buy a big bag of sugar and some turbo yeast. On any kind of non-industrial scale the cost of the acids to turn the cellulose into fermentable sugar is more than what you'll pay to just buy the sugar.
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12AX7
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 08:09


Steep the newspapers in boiling 10% sulfuric acid for a few days. You should be left with a little glucose in solution, which can be neutralized (ooh, it could be adsorbed onto ion exchange media) and fermented.

Tim




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Waffles SS
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 08:29


I am serious for convert cellulose to ethanol(It is my research)
This is good idea to convert cellulose to sugar and then to ethanol but i am sure sulfuric acid is not suitable for this purpose.
Cellulase may be better for this.
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bbartlog
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 09:05


Quote:
I am serious for convert cellulose to ethanol(It is my research) [...] but i am sure sulfuric acid is not suitable for this purpose.


You can't be for real. This is 'your research' but you think that acid hydrolysis is somehow implausible as a way of converting cellusose to sugars? Sulfuric acid has been used to saccharify cellulose for oh, maybe 150 years or more. Cellulase is a recent innovation. And frankly you seem confused inasfar as you're looking for 'an enzyme' (singular? really?) that will convert cellulose directly to ethanol. Are you sure that research is for you?

I'd suggest finding the paper 'Bioethanol from Cellulosic Materials:A Renewable Motor Fuel from Biomass' as a starting point.
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watson.fawkes
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 09:07


Quote: Originally posted by Waffles SS  
Cellulase may be better for this.
You might look at fungi. To compose cellulose, they typically secrete extracellular acids.
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Waffles SS
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 10:01


I am not confuse.
I just said sulfuric acid is not suitable because my research is about convert News paper(cellulose) to ethanol by enzyme.but i like to know another possible method.
Here news paper sheet is very cheap(100kg 1$ but glucose 1kg 1$) and this reasearch may be introduction for make ethanol in industry(here).





[Edited on 2-2-2010 by Waffles SS]

[Edited on 2-2-2010 by Waffles SS]
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 14:34


Converting cellulose into a fermentable sugar is not easy.
The cheapest source of fermentable sugar is a starch based material eg maize kernels, potatoes, etc.
The action of a suitable enzyme on a warm mash of this material will convert the mass in to fermentable sugar.
There are issues associated with conversion, filtration, etc but it is the practical way to go.
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crazyboy
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 19:19


Quote:

I am serious for convert cellulose to ethanol(It is my research)


Since when does research consist of asking other people to solve your problem for you? If you are serious about this why do you have no information on how you might even possibly go about this?

Quote:

this research may be introduction for make ethanol in industry(here).


You think you are going to start an industry in the fatherland by asking other people how you can get over the only thing stopping anyone from doing it?

The two routes I see are:

1. Culturing bacteria or protozoa found in the stomachs of termites, koalas or cows then introducing this into a mash with newspaper. (Be gentle some of these microbes such as the ones found in bovine stomachs are anerobic and will not tolerate oxygen)

2. Use fungi to decompose the cellulose (oyster mushrooms are particularly hardy and tasty) then find a way to convert the mycelium to sugars.

The reason cellulose can not be digested by higher organisms is because cellulose is a polymer consisting of alternating alpha and beta glucose. Breaking these bonds can only be achieved biologically by enzymes only found in microorganisms and fungi.

Fungi cell walls are composed of chitin a relative of cellulose also found in arthropod and crustacean shells I don't know how much easier to break down these compound swill be or if it will be economically feasible.





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bquirky
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[*] posted on 2-2-2010 at 20:51


gassify or burn the newspaper and use the heat to turn a generator. you will get much more Oumpth out of your tons of newspaper on a small/medium scale

ethanol from cellulose sucks.

if you want an interesting research project how about designing small lightweight gasification equipment that could be practically used in a vheical

or if you want a more exotic chalange
try to find a direct electrochemical route to geting electricity from celuose prehaps some kind of solid fuel cell.

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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 00:07


"I'd suggest finding the paper 'Bioethanol from Cellulosic Materials:A Renewable Motor Fuel from Biomass' as a starting point. "

I think this is it.


Attachment: bioethanol from cellulose.pdf (677kB)
This file has been downloaded 1165 times





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12AX7
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 07:34


Funny to research cellulosic ethanol, as the process has already left the research stage and is being implemented in many plants around the world as we speak.

Tim




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Waffles SS
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 11:25


I think First news papers should add to water for making news paper paste,Second toluene should add for dissolve ink and paint,Third cellulase should add and finally yeast.
Somebody know how much cellulase need for 100kg news paper?
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 12:07


Quote: Originally posted by Waffles SS  

... Second toluene should add for dissolve ink and paint,Third cellulase should add and finally yeast ...


@Waffles SS,

Why "poison" your Cellulase and Yeast with Toluene ?

Ink contributes to a relatively small amount of contamination of variouse dye compositions in Newspapers, and a bulk of Toluene will then be added to probably do the unnecessary, and then has to be removed again. Would small amounts of contaminants in the form of Dye effect Cellulase and Yeast ?, and the time consuming extra step really add any additional advantages ?

Just wondering :)

Lambda
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bbartlog
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 13:00


Quote:
the process has already left the research stage and is being implemented in many plants


Well, you can always do further research on a process, even after its industrial adoption; optimization can be pretty valuable. However, this would imply a much narrower focus than what Waffles has so far been talking about.

Quote:
I think First news papers should add to water for making news paper paste,Second toluene should add for dissolve ink and paint,Third cellulase should add and finally yeast.


I keep wondering whether the fact that English is not your native language is making you look stupid. Understand, I like to answer questions when I can (despite being an amateur myself), but so far nothing you've written suggests much understanding of either this process or of how research proceeds in general.
The specific question of how much of which enzyme is needed for 100kg of newspaper pulp would be best directed to someone like a customer service representative at Genencor or some other such company, as I'm sure it's dependent on process parameters. Whether you would be able to provide enough meaningful information on your proposal to allow for an answer is an open question.
As regards your general outline:
- you don't seem to have any method in mind for pulping the newspaper to render the cellulose readily accessible for breakdown. Adding water is not enough, even with some mechanical agitation. This is why acid is normally used in pretreatment. Unless your newspaper is already coming to you in the form of cellulosic sludge, this is something you need to think about. I suppose it's possible to omit pretreatment, but then either yields will suffer or the time to break down the cellulose to sugars will greatly increase.
- toluene. Not really miscible in water. Sounds like you want to extract stuff into the toluene (via agitation/mixing) and then mechanically remove it as a separate phase. Why? Is the stuff (ink, paint) in the newspaper so toxic that it's going to poison the yeast? The ethanol is eventually going to be removed by distillation anyway, leaving that stuff behind.
- you don't give any indication of whether you view this as a continuous operation or a big batch process.

At any rate, my advice is: if this is an academic research project, focus on some smaller part of it, like
- trying to determine what conditions maximize the output of fermentable sugars from cellulose
- how temperature affects the breakdown of the enzymes and thus the tradeoff between throughput and enzyme costs

I'm sure that a literature search would show that both of these areas have already been covered, but you could probably find some narrow avenue for original work.

If you are actually an independent researcher, I suggest reviewing the work of companies like Genencor and Novozymes (to the extent that it's available in publication and patents). You'll learn a great deal, or realize you're out of your depth, or both.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 15:00


Get a tour of a paper mill, preferably one with a pulp mill. There have been over a hundred years of research and development dedicated to dealing with turning paper into pulp and dealing with it (pulping, pumping, mixing, acidification, etc, etc). All of this is done on a very large scale every day, and will give you an understanding of what you need to do.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 20:07


If this is to be your research, should you not be, er, researching?

Look up pretreatment of biomass (usually dilute H2SO4, organosolves, ammonia fiber explosion (AFEX), caustic (NaOH, KOH, K2CO3 or Ca(OH)2) or oxidative (alkaline peroxide)). Then see about cellulases and why pretreatment is necessary for biomass (maybe not so much for news print).

Furfurals and lignin (reactive phenolic bits) are a real problem in that that they tend to denature your enzymes and poison your yeast. You will get furfurals with acid hydrolysis, you will not with alkaline treatments. Lignin is soluble when alkaline and can be recovered.

Then...look up simultaneous saccharification and fermentation (SSF). It is a lot trickier than it is made to appear in the literature.

Good luck,

O3




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Waffles SS
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 03:33


Sure adding toluene means the toluene will separate completely after solving ink and paint.
Sure using mechanic stirer is necessary.
Sure i dont use 100kg news paper at start,i start with small amount news paper.
Sure i did many research about pretreatment and another steps.
Sure i am not lazy and kid and english native.
Sure ...
Now just i need instruction(amount,temp,...)that i didnt find that.

[Edited on 4-2-2010 by Waffles SS]
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 13:04


If I was thinking of doing this I would visit my local newspaper offices.
Most papers print until there is a fair bit of paper left on the roll. The roll ends are then sold or given to anyone who wants them, usually fish and chip shops, fishmongers etc.
You can slice the roll up with a saw and that can then be mashed to make your raw material for the test process.
You will not have to deal with the ink etc so you have a simpler model system.
One of the key things about science is using your creativity to think laterally and build model systems.

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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 14:03


Have you considered how much of the price of ethanol is tax? In many countries, concentrated ethanol is heavily taxed - in the US, $17 per liter of pure ethanol for anything distilled or concentrated. Check the price of denatured alcohol (methylated spirits to UK dwellers, dunno what it's called elsewhere) i.e. alcohol rendered undrinkable by humans. It's often sold as paint thinner.

The subject of how to convert plant cellulose to fuel (ethanol) has been extensively (exhaustively) discussed in the popular and technical press for over 20 years. A couple of days (maybe a week) of Google searches followed up by looking up what you find in the local university chemistry library would probably give you far more information than you would get here.

A large problem with cellulose -> alcohol is the energy cost of distillation. If it costs more to distill a liter of ethanol than it costs to buy it, it's not profitable. That's why simple cellulase->glucose->ethanol by easily obtainable and cheap enzymes is not profitable. That's where you should focus.

Please, do yourself a favor and read what's available: my organic chemistry professor in college was world famous for the saying: "A month in the laboratory can save you as much as two hours in the library". With Google, patent office records, enzyme manufacturers' web sites, and the local college library for the journals not available online, you should find a wealth of information.
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[*] posted on 6-2-2010 at 13:30


The best way to get ethanol from newspaper is find an ad for a liquor store.
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