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Author: Subject: KMnO4
budullewraagh
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[*] posted on 15-8-2004 at 05:32


i could imagine that it was released as either HCl or Cl2



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mick
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[*] posted on 17-8-2004 at 12:44
KMnO4


About what you can do with KMnO4
This is from a book first published in 1931 and this is from my1961 reprint
In solution it is the most powerful common oxisising agent available.
The substances oxidised include nascent hydrogen, unsaturated hydrocarbons, ammonia (only slowly in solution) and ammonium salts, nitrites, hydrogen sulpide, sulphur dioxide, sulphites, thiosulphates, phosphine, phosphites, hypophosphites, phosphorous acid, hydrochloric acid, chlorides, hydrobromic acid and hydroiodic acid and their salts, arsenites, organic matter of most kind, the lower salts of most metals, such as ferrous, cuprous, manganous, titanous, stannous salts and metals.
It has then got a page and a half on how to work out the relevant equation for what you want to do eg if you are doing it in suphuric acid, write down the oxidising equation for what you are doing and subtract this equation.
The other thing is, if its fairly pure, you can use it to find out the purity of some things that can be oxidised in water because it is self indicating, the colour changes or MnO2 is formed.
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JohnWW
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[*] posted on 17-8-2004 at 14:15


More powerful (but mostly more expensive except the last group) oxidizing agents in aqueous solution than MnO4- are:
alkali metal salts of plumbate(IV), PbO3--, and bismuthate(V), BiO3-; acid solutions of Ce(IV) salts e.g. Ce(NO3)4; and alkaline solutions of Cl2, NaOCl and NaClO2. These are capable of oxidizing Mn(II) to MnO4-, and most of them can also oxidize Fe(III) to FeO4--.

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tom haggen
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[*] posted on 17-8-2004 at 17:16


Just exactly how safe is it to mix KMn04 with concentrated sulphuric acid?

[Edited on 18-8-2004 by tom haggen]




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budullewraagh
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[*] posted on 17-8-2004 at 18:28


i'd think it would be not so dangerous as long as you added the KMnO4 slowly



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[*] posted on 17-8-2004 at 19:58


If you see green crystals forming you're in trouble - I've been told they're extremely unstable.

(Oh Joy! Primary explosive in a jar of sulphuric acid!)
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[*] posted on 18-8-2004 at 02:32


At low temperatures, the product would be Mn2O7, as a dark oily liquid.

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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 04:44


Question "Just exactly how safe is it to mix KMn04 with concentrated sulphuric acid?"
Answer; not safe.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 05:35


I seem to remember reading somewhere that KMNO4 + H2SO4 produces O3 among other nasty things.



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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 07:49


I have a friend who has a well that produces what they call "sulfur water". Based on the smell, I think it contains a small amount of H2S dissolved in it. The odor is pretty strong, like fresh shit sitting in the sun. I was talking with him and he mentioned seeing a treatment system that used a pink or purple liquid that gets injected at the water pump. Knowing that KMnO4 has that characteristic color in solution, and having a vague idea that it might oxidize the H2S I plan on making up a dilute solution and adding a couple drops to a gallon of that water. Titration should be simple if it does react since the pink will become clear.

The only possible problem is that if it isn't H2S or if the KMnO4 doesn't oxidize it. Anyone else ever experience this "sulfur water" or can verify that it is H2S? Better yet, will adding dilute KMnO4 actually do something, or do I just have a wild hair up my ass?
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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 09:55


last i checked, conc H2SO4+2KMnO4 -> HMnO4+K2SO4



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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 10:04


JohnWW, you mentioned organic permanganyl esters.
Do you have more details? I always wondered whether such esters exist, and u seem to have heard about them. Please post details on a well-known/stable one if you have it (partiuclalry if it is easily made - then it probably warrants its own thread anyway) - thanks :)

[Edited on 21-8-2004 by chemoleo]




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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 12:19


blazter, I don't know about any injection systems, but I get my KMnO4 for "greensand" filter regeneration. This sort of system takes out the H2S by precipitating it as S.

I've heard that an O2/O3 mix can be made from sulfuric and KMnO4, too. Probably not much.

The reaction between KMnO4 and H2SO4 is dependant on conditions. How concentrated, whats added to what, the temp, etc. There are several possibilities and products.

Adding hot sulfuric to the solid will just give sulfates, water, and O.

Adding the solid to conc. H2SO4 can give Mn2O7. This may not be something that you want to make much of.
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[*] posted on 21-8-2004 at 13:03


Quote:
Originally posted by chemoleo
JohnWW, you mentioned organic permanganyl esters.
Do you have more details? I always wondered whether such esters exist, and u seem to have heard about them. Please post details on a well-known/stable one if you have it (partiuclalry if it is easily made - then it probably warrants its own thread anyway) - thanks :)

[Edited on 21-8-2004 by chemoleo]


I think I said that organic permanganate esters may possibly exist, not that they do for a fact. Like chromate, perchlorate and nitrate esters, they would be highly explosive, if they could be made. It would be possible to make them only at low temperatures, by the reaction of alcohols with Mn2O7 or with HMnO4, plus a small amount of H2SO4. Like those other esters, they would depend for their formation on their auto-decomposition into explosion products being kinetically slow at low temperatures, although highly thermodynamically favorable.

John W.
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