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Author: Subject: The essential oil
mycoguy
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[*] posted on 20-3-2005 at 00:54


Quote:
Originally posted by Cognos
You need to Google a bit harder... A safrole containing oil (90%+) is available from an aromatherepy supplier in the UK... 30ml for about £8 and they have an online ordering system so you don't need to even call them or anything. You'd need to spend about 80 quid for a decent amount which is a little steep relatively speaking. Possibly ordering 10 bottles might be a bit hot, who knows.


80 quid for 300ml? WTF? YOU need to google harder!
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Cognos
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[*] posted on 20-3-2005 at 06:24


So what price have you seen for a 90%+ oil, from a UK supplier who will sell to the general public?? Of course one could order it much cheaper from oversees based companies, but that adds extra risks. If one was in the business of making exotic soap, then considering the amount that could be produced from 270ml of safrole, it is still a bargain at £80 for an obscure, less well known and therefore less suspicious (than sassafras) safrole containing oil.

[Edited on 20-3-2005 by Cognos]
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Nerro
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[*] posted on 21-3-2005 at 15:07


Eugenole is very similar to safrole. There must be a simple way make safrole out of it. You only need to remove 2 H+.

Is Eugenole easier to come by?

UPDATE!

After UTFSE I discovered (aye matey!) that clove-oil containes 82%~87% eugenole! That should be usefull.

[Edited on 21/3/2005 by Nerro]




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FrankRizzo
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[*] posted on 21-3-2005 at 16:03
This should be useful.


http://chemlabs1.tripod.com/chemistry/methylenation.html

The site also contains an easy microwave syth.

http://chemlabs1.tripod.com/chemistry/eugenol2safrol.html

[Edited on 22-3-2005 by FrankRizzo]
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mycoguy
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[*] posted on 21-3-2005 at 23:35


eugenol can also be had OTC, for use in some soft of temporary dental filling. Or so I've heard.
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JohnWW
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[*] posted on 22-3-2005 at 01:14


Eugenol mixed with some sort of zinc and/or magnesium oxide cement, I think, is in the temporary dental filling.
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Nerro
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[*] posted on 22-3-2005 at 04:45


correct. It can be found in temporary fillings as as a means of dumbing out the pain you might suffer in a hollow tooth. (what's the word again?)

But as I said, clove oil exists out of 82%~87% eugenole :)




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CherrieBaby
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[*] posted on 22-3-2005 at 10:42


Quote:

clove-oil containes 82%~87% eugenole!
- not that much. A % of that will be acetyl-Eugenol (~8%) which is NOT the same as Eugenol even thought it can be converted to such. 99% Eugenol can be got from Clove oil via an A/B extraction. Kings Chemistry Survival Guide By Jared B. Ledgard, (ubiquitously available on the net) has a suitable extraction procedure from Cloves which can be modified for Clove Oil. Here is another method from an old Rhodium mirror:
http://chemlabs1.tripod.com/chemistry/guest.eugenol.txt
(Experimental Organic Chemistry"; Durst, Gokel, Durst, Gokel; McGraw Hill; 1980; p. 467.)
Quote:

You only need to remove 2 H+.
- You need to remove the methoxy group and then to add a methylenedioxy group. You can't just remove the two H's (no chemistry I know of will do that).

Eugenol is piss easy to get hold of and those unable to get Eugenol you can get Oil of Cloves from the local Chemist shop or buy larger quantities after a Google search.

This conversion has been haggled over for years on the net. The final conclusion was to do a microwave demethylation using pyridine HCl (perhaps something less nasty will work instead like tri-ethylamine HCl or piperidine HCl? - won't know till it's tried). There are other demethylations too, including other microwave demethylations. Maybe I should post a review?

You need to consider the work-up. Organic base.HCl demethylation should be easy to extract allyl-catechol from, which makes it a winner in my book. This has already been discussed here in post 3373.

The best methylenation looks to be one of those using PTC (from the point of view of OTC reagents) although there was a recent US patent
http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/viewer?PN=US5936103&CY...
(USP 5936103) with high yields done in N-methylpyrrolidone solvent.

The relevant Rhodium document to read is
https://www.synthetikal.com/Rhodiums_pdfs/chemistry/methylen...
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sg43
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biggrin.gif posted on 15-4-2005 at 18:29
sassy...


Hrm.....I donno if this helps but
http://www.sassafrasoil.com/ seems to look pretty good, high prices but they seem to provide alot bigger quanitys...if anyone know if this is a real source please let me know.
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Nerro
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[*] posted on 16-4-2005 at 01:48


LOL! $1000 for 4,5kg of the oil.

If I were Betty Ford I would jsut buy eugenole somewhere and convert it. As I understand it you don't need any huge quantities anyway. It should be a viable enough way to make your soaps.

[Edited on Mon/Dec/2005 by Nerro]




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sg43
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shocked.gif posted on 16-4-2005 at 09:26
WHOA!


4-5 KILOS! are yous serious? first of all you only need about 8-16oz of it....and secondly im sure that would raise some red flags LOL!
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JohnWW
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[*] posted on 17-4-2005 at 19:22


It would raise some red flags"? Of course, because the stuff is good for you.
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[*] posted on 17-4-2005 at 19:44


Heres a synth you safrole buffs might be interested in....

Attachment: Synthesis of Safrole - [www_rhodium_ws].mht (8kB)
This file has been downloaded 2649 times





N/A
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sg43
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[*] posted on 17-4-2005 at 20:24
Just cause im a nice guy


Im going to let you guys in on a litte secret: http://www.asianexports.cn/products/essentials.html

You can thank me later!!:cool:
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[*] posted on 27-11-2005 at 15:36


Is it not possible to extract sassifras oil from Sassafras Albidum roots?

Perhaps the roots could be cut and soaked in a solvent such as ethanol for some time and then filtered and distilled to obain sassifras oil which is very high in safrole?
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Odin
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[*] posted on 27-11-2005 at 17:02


safrole is a precurser for MDMA,MMDA as well as MDA.
Safrole and Safron is extracted from the oil from sassafras or can be obtained from the flower ' Crocus Sativa '
I dont have to go into the detail of the amount of flowers required to obtain a satisfactory yield of extract.
Having a field of these flowers is the equivilent of having possesion of a Class A Precurser in Canadian Drug Laws for the purpose of clandistine activities
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evil_lurker
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[*] posted on 27-11-2005 at 23:59


I'm from the southern USA, and have probably at least a kilogram of sassy growing in frong of my house.

Mind you that is a LOT of digging and steam distilling.
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[*] posted on 29-11-2005 at 17:43


So the general method for the extraction would be simply steam distillation of roots. I like the root beer smell.
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moecat
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[*] posted on 3-12-2005 at 20:21


Quote:
Originally posted by ADP
Is it not possible to extract sassifras oil from Sassafras Albidum roots?

Perhaps the roots could be cut and soaked in a solvent such as ethanol for some time and then filtered and distilled to obain sassifras oil which is very high in safrole?

I like to think there's little difference between a steam distilled oil and the vacuum distillate of say....a hexane extraction.

[Edited on 4-12-2005 by moecat]
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hell.fire
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[*] posted on 11-12-2005 at 20:29


There are many sources for safrole. Ive found at least 5 sources in the UK. Here's a clue search Star Anise it contains safrole and you can get 1kg of the actual plant for £12. There's loads of plants available just keep searching google it takes time and patience to find reliable sources but it will pay off in the end. ;)
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CherrieBaby
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[*] posted on 12-12-2005 at 00:19


Star Anise contains anethole in larger quantities, which has very similar properties to safrole and is very difficult to separate. Anethole undergoes similar reactions to iso-safrole and will give PMMA. You will end up getting a very different experience to the expected MDMA one.

I hope no one follows your advice and uses Star Anise.
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hell.fire
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[*] posted on 12-12-2005 at 04:52


Wow your right ive done more searching in to it and it would seem your right. But still tere's loads of plants left seriously it just takes time. According to Rhodium nut-meg can be used it contains 120 - 2,720 ppm in Seed not much but there's some there all you have to do is separate the mycristin (sp) form the safrole.

EDIT: Lol just been doing some more searching on google and i've found sassafras albidium available in the UK.



'albidum'
very upright tree spreading by suckers with aromatic leaves and good autumn colour. A rare tree in the UK
Small £9.75 or Large £22.50 or Specimen £45.00

[Edited on 12-12-2005 by hell.fire]
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Fast Green FCF
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[*] posted on 27-5-2015 at 15:35


Quote: Originally posted by CherrieBaby  
Star Anise contains anethole in larger quantities, which has very similar properties to safrole and is very difficult to separate. Anethole undergoes similar reactions to iso-safrole and will give PMMA. You will end up getting a very different experience to the expected MDMA one.

I hope no one follows your advice and uses Star Anise.


Boiling Point of Anethole = 233-235 deg C

Boiling Point of Safrole = 232-234 deg C

Boiling Point of Isosafrole = 253 deg C

Althought it is true you can't easily separate it from the safrole, the isosafrole will be easy to purify with a simple fractional distillation.
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[*] posted on 6-6-2015 at 18:58


It is now very difficult to get essential oil with significant safrole content. Forget about sassafras, nowadays camphor oil is really easy to source, more specifically brown camphor oil.
But I will tell you something : if you buy brown camphor oil you will have a very bad surprise. Sellers, from east to west, apply specific treatments that are destructive for safrole and this is never specified. They don't remove it, and can still claim that oils afford all benefits of safrole (what I seriously doubt, if the molecule can't be found intact it just lost its properties). BUT you can ask to some of these companies to send you unmodified oil with high crude safrole content. The price will not be the same, it will rise just as the risk to get caught by the nice people at the customs!
BTW, any UK seller listing oils with high safrole content just lie (also rectified oil or just "fragrance"), safrole is banned over the international platform...

[Edited on 7-6-2015 by Shikimol69]
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