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Author: Subject: For sale: Lithium Aluminum Hydride 99% (pelletized)
stoichiometric_steve
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[*] posted on 2-5-2010 at 00:12
For sale: Lithium Aluminum Hydride 99% (pelletized)


25g: 60 EUR
50g: 100 EUR
100g: 180 EUR
200g: 350 EUR
500g: 650 EUR
1000g: 1200 EUR

Shipping everywhere via HAZMAT at buyers expense.




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thereelstory
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[*] posted on 2-5-2010 at 19:43


why is it so expensive?
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Lambda-Eyde
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[*] posted on 2-5-2010 at 22:25


It just is. SS is cheaper than both Fisher Scientific and Chiron in my country. The shipping costs is what puts me off. That and the fact that I can just drop by Chiron in Trondheim and pick up my order free of charge.
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len2
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 04:54


Hey, first you post a drugs related question, then you offer to sell LAH to anyone who cares blowing your cover. Either you're the DEA, or youve got a screw loose
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chief
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 06:09


Aything _that_ expensive is probably somehow drug-related ...

I wonder what else could achieve some high prices on epay ... ...
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 11:06


The cost of the electricity used in reducing the Al firstly to the metal, and from there to hydride, would be a significant part of the price, together also with Li being a fairly rare metal requiring expen$ive extraction and purification procedures, and then reducing it also to the metal by electrolysis.

[Edited on 4-5-10 by JohnWW]
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a_bab
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 12:02


Yeah, and let me know what amateur on Earth would need more than 50 grams for experimental purposes, let alone kilos of the stuff...

The price is given by the rarity. In Europe one can easily order 1 kilo of RP for something like 75 bucks. Now I wonder how much would some people in USA be willing to pay for it?

I feel like the times when ephedrine selling posts will start popping up are not very far. "Technical grade, from India"



Fucking dopeheads.
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Nicodem
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 14:16


Please refrain from posting a bunch of stupidities before actually checking the prices of LiAlH4 in the catalogues of the chemical suppliers. The above prices are pretty much normal prices and not some drug-inflated prices. And LiAlH4 is not even something required to make any illegal drug - for some organic chemists this is quite a trivial reagent (though best to be avoided when possible as death by fire is one of the possible side effects of its use). It is bad enough that we have to tolerate such exchanges publicly, but even worse if they escalate in post whoring exhibitions. Use the U2U!
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 14:17


Anyone can check the seller's posting history and decide whether or not they want to do business with him.

However, it is ridiculous to assume that buyers of this compound must be interested in making drugs, or that real amateurs would want only a small amount. It is a widely used reagent in professional labs. It is frequently unused by the amateur for reasons of availability and handling difficulties. However, it is the limited availability that makes larger purchases attractive when an amateur suddenly does have an opportunity to buy it. I have purchased far larger quantities of mercury, arsenic pentoxide, and ammonium perchlorate than I have any immediate need for simply because I was not confident I would be able to buy them later. I wanted to lock in a lifetime or at least multi-decade supply while I had a chance.

The ACS web site has tens of thousands of documents mentioning lithium aluminum hydride, and only a minute fraction of them would be of interest to clandestine drug manufacturers. Or, to compare it with some common chemicals more familiar to the amateur, it's referenced more often in ACS documents than aluminum chloride, sodium hypochlorite, and methyl ethyl ketone combined. Comparing it to an immediate precursor for a well known street drug is ridiculous.




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len1
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 16:32


I dont know whats your reason for writing this stuff. The chemicals you mention are not of interest in drug making, but anyone who checks the web can see LAH is. It is much too expensive to be used by large concerns
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 17:25


Quote: Originally posted by len1  
I dont know whats your reason for writing this stuff.


I would guess in an effort to point out peoples sterotyping and 'judgement without evidence' holier than thou crap that filled posts 2-6. It isn't that difficult to not be a bigot but people rarely even are aware when their offhanded comments contain pure nonsense.
SS is selling something, thats it, nothing else, why the slurs i have no idea. In civilised society one doesn't rush to judgements based on indirect evidence.




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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 17:28


Quote: Originally posted by a_bab  
Yeah, and let me know what amateur on Earth would need more than 50 grams for experimental purposes, let alone kilos of the stuff...

The price is given by the rarity. In Europe one can easily order 1 kilo of RP for something like 75 bucks. Now I wonder how much would some people in USA be willing to pay for it?

I feel like the times when ephedrine selling posts will start popping up are not very far. "Technical grade, from India"

Fucking dopeheads.



I've seen RP go for over $500.0 in the US for 50-100 grms


[Edited on 4-5-2010 by Trifluoroacetic]

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by Trifluoroacetic]
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 17:51


Earlier posts in this thread gave the impression that their authors' sole knowledge of the uses of LAH was that a Google search shows drug-site discussion about it in the first page of results.

LAH, like sodium or iodine, can be used to make drugs or a thousand other things, and is a very common laboratory reagent. It is not like ephedrine which has fairly limited non-drug uses in the laboratory. It has been in wide use for more than 60 years, to the extent that it has many more mentions in ACS literature than a common chemical like potassium permanganate. Of course nobody uses it on a plant scale if they can help it, due to price and inconvenience, but in education and research a lot of things are common that are completely uneconomical at plant scale.




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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 18:35


LALH4 has always been expensive. Expensive, and dangerous to handle.

Few illicit drugs, that are currently in vogue, require metal hydrides in their synthesis.

In almost every case, better and safer synthetic techniques have been developed, or the illicit drugs requiring hydride reductions, have been supplanted in popularity. Times change.

Since, the price is posted in Euros, I assume the seller is in Europe, and this is a legitimate offer to sell.

This may be problematic for you, if you are in the United States. As importing such a material could require a special permit.

Metal Hydrides are actually not very difficult to manufacture. In a pinch, you can make your own. If you avoid using Lithium, you can do so fairly economically.









[Edited on 4-5-2010 by zed]
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len1
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 18:42


Having verified that LAH is used to make drugs as I said, you decide the best responce is to feign the conculsion that thats the only thing I know about it? If only SM posters were as strong in chemistry as in personal attacks. Have fun.

As for making an aluminium hydride economically without lithium - please show then it would be a whole load more believable.


[Edited on 4-5-2010 by len1]
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 20:06


Actually I was referring to the posts of chief and a_bab before my first in this thread. The "sniff test" for me is not whether something can be used to make drugs but if it is the predominant thing it can be used for. So I would not shut down any thread here offering sodium, iodine, or complex metal hydrides for sale: all have much broader uses than what erowid.org would suggest. But I would not leave open a thread offering ephedrine, n-phenethyl piperidone, or other chemicals that are prominently used in drug manufacture and rather little used in the laboratory otherwise.



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len1
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[*] posted on 3-5-2010 at 20:23


I was not suggesting that anything be closed down. LAH is illegal to sell LAH here without a license, and in the UK due to similar jurisdictions it would be at least watched. So the whole thing looks rather bizzare.
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 04:31


NaAlH4 can be produced rather easily if you have access to a high pressure reaction vessel. It is a fairly simple hydrogenation process. Such vessels can be purchased, sometimes, for only a few hundred dollars. Sauron, I, and others, discussed it here, within the last year or two.

NaBH4, which many profess to be stumped by, might also be produced easily. Without the use of Borane gases. Though I have never seen such a discussion on this board, I have seen references to such processes.









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Reduce-Me
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 11:31


If you could point me into the direction of these references that would be swell.

Or at least humor me with your easy production process?

I'm curious to know.
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len1
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 12:51


Quote:
NaAlH4 can be produced rather easily


Quote:
Sauron, I, and others, discussed it here, within the last year or two.


Sorry, I meant produced, not discussed.

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by len1]
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 13:12


Look it up. Better yet, send a u2u to Sauron. That, should get you the kind of response you truly deserve.

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by zed]
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chief
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 14:30


25 g for 60 EUR ? Laughably expensive ...

==> Reminds me of when a lab-supply wanted to sell me 500 ml of 40% NaMnO4-solution for 90 bucks ... while elsewhere I could get the 20fold-amount of the same purity for that price ...

Li rare ? ?? It's one of the most abundant elements of them all ... ; how many g will be in a standard Li-battery ?? How much of the hydride will this give ?

Those prices may be standard these days ... but only because of not-enough competition ... and too much easy money in the institutions ... ... 1 kg for 1200 EUR :D thats 3 times the price of silver ...; and silver is money ... as they say ...

[Edited on 4-5-2010 by chief]
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 15:11


Quote: Originally posted by chief  
(cut) Li rare ? ?? It's one of the most abundant elements of them all ... ; how many g will be in a standard Li-battery? (cut)

Actually Li has a quite low cosmic abundance, despite its low atomic number of 3 and stable mass numbers of 6 and 7. While it is produced initially in fairly large quantities by fusion (probably mainly by fusion of He-4 and deuterons, skipping mass number 5 of which there are no stable isotopes) inside stars, especially mature stars, it tends to be either decomposed back to He or further fused into heavier elements such as Be-9, B-10 & 11, and C-12 & 13, in either subsequent fusion reactions or (when the core of a star with little remaining H or He collapses) in supernova explosions.

That is why Li (and also Be and B, noting that there are no stable isotopes with mass number 8, as well as 5) is so rare, especially compared to C, N, O, and to Na. The main sources on earth are the much less than 1 ppm in sea-water from the weathering of minerals over millions of years, certain salt deposits from the drying-up of old salt lakes such as in Chile (in which Li, and also F, have become concentrated due to Li halides and other salts being less soluble than Na/K/Rb/Cs and Mg salts), and a few rare siliceous minerals in granitic rocks such as lepidolite and spodumene.

I wonder, however, how plant and animal physiology might have developed if Li had been much more abundant than Na and K, instead of the other way around. Because of its small ionic size, Li+ cations diffuse through biological membranes much more easily than Na+.

[Edited on 4-5-10 by JohnWW]
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 15:12


Quote: Originally posted by Lambda-Eyde  
It just is. SS is cheaper than both Fisher Scientific and Chiron in my country. The shipping costs is what puts me off. That and the fact that I can just drop by Chiron in Trondheim and pick up my order free of charge.


I retract my statement. I looked up the prices in the Alfa Aesar and Acros Organics catalogs, and they offer the 97 % grade at roughly half the price.
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[*] posted on 4-5-2010 at 23:29


If I were an american, need it badly, and do an arrangement with SS to pack it like a "present", so nobody would be suspicious I'd go for a few kilos of it. God know what the profit may look like.
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