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entropy51
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Better Living Through Chemistry
| Quote: | Girl, 15, dies after weekend rave at L.A. Coliseum
Officials suspect that the teen, identified as Sasha Rodriguez, died of a drug overdose after attending the Electric Daisy Carnival. Her death renews
calls to ban such events from the Coliseum.
By Rong-Gong Lin II and Sarah Ardalani, Los Angeles Times
June 30, 2010
A 15-year-old girl died Tuesday of a suspected drug overdose after attending a rave over the weekend at the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum that had a
minimum age requirement of 16.
The girl, identified by family members as Sasha Rodriguez, was one of two rave attendees who were in critical condition at California Hospital Medical
Center after the 14th annual Electric Daisy Carnival.
As Sasha's family decided whether to remove her from life support Tuesday, her mother, Grace Rodriguez, told the CBS Evening News: "I was supposed to
be planning her Sweet Sixteen party. Now I have to plan her funeral."
Sasha, who lived in the Atwater neighborhood, died shortly before 5:30 p.m. Tuesday, according Katreena Salgado, a spokeswoman for the hospital.
She and the other critically ill patient had been taken to the downtown Los Angeles hospital by ambulance directly from the venue, officials said.
Both were treated for drug intoxication in the intensive care unit.
"She came in as an emergency patient from the rave. She was in respiratory arrest when she got here, and she never recovered," said Salgado, who said
Sasha was in a coma and experienced multiple organ failure.
Outside California Hospital Tuesday night, friends and family said that when Sasha was found, she did not have identification.
"Obviously they didn't check IDs," said Eva Rodriguez, Sasha's godmother.
Doctors told Sasha's family that she had the drug ecstasy in her system when the ambulance got her to the emergency room.
Kimberly Keith, a family friend, said Sasha's loved ones are still trying to figure out what happened. Although they knew Sasha was going to her first
rave, Keith said, drug use was "not her character."
When they got the call that Sasha had been taken to the hospital, they had no idea how serious her condition was.
"We were almost like joking, 'Oh she's going to be in trouble. I can't believe she went there!' " she said. Keith said they thought maybe the rave was
"too packed, she was excited and passed out.... Never in a million years would we would have imagined" drugs.
A 16-year old friend who was with Sasha at the rave said Sasha was dancing, got hot and began quickly drinking cold water.
Doctors said "her sodium, electrolytes were so low that when she started replacing them so quickly [with cold water], ecstasy messes up your body's
ability to process that, so it threw her body out of whack," said Keith.
Sasha passed out, hitting her head on the floor. The friend who was with her tried to shield her body but told her family that the venue was so
crowded, people stepped on them.
"We've got kids in inappropriate situations that are dying," Keith said. "That's a city-, state-, county-owned building. They throw it, they rent it,
yet they fill it full of minors in a setting where everybody knows what a rave is about. Where's the accountability?"
On Monday, Dr. Caitlin Reed, a physician from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on assignment with the Los Angeles County Department
of Public Health, said she was at the rave on both days and did not see anyone checking identification.
"I didn't see any ID being checked at the entry point," Reed said. "This was an all-ages event. There were many, many younger teenagers present."
Pat Lynch, who manages the Coliseum, was stunned to learn of the death Tuesday.
"Oh, no. Oh, my God," Lynch said. "I don't know what to say. That's just terrible."
When asked how a 15-year-old was able to get into the event when the minimum age for entry was 16 without a legal guardian, Lynch said he needed to
investigate.
"I'm at a loss," Lynch said. "Sixteen is what the promoter requested, and I just don't know."
Dr. Brian Johnston, the emergency room medical director at White Memorial Medical Center, called the death tragic. Johnston is among doctors who have
said that raves at the publicly owned facility put people at risk. He believes that such parties should no longer be permitted at the Coliseum, which
was built on state land and is under the authority of a joint city, county and state commission.
"I think it's tragic when a 15-year-old girl dies in this way as a result of a public policy that put her at risk," Johnston said. "Can you imagine
explaining that to her parents?"
Barry Sanders, president of the Coliseum commission, issued a statement Tuesday expressing "dismay and deep sadness on the death of the young woman."
Sanders said he plans to call a special meeting of the commission to review all criteria required for organizers using the venue.
Pasquale Rotella, founder of Los Angeles-based Insomniac Events, the company that organized the event, did not respond to a request made through his
publicist for comment.
The event, held Friday and Saturday, drew about 185,000 people to carnival rides, five stages and performances by Moby, Will.i.am, Steve Aoki and
Deadmau5. About 120 required transport to local hospitals, mostly for drug intoxication.
The volume of patients in need of hospital care led several emergency room physicians on Monday to call for an end to raves at the Coliseum.
Cathy Chidester, director of the county Emergency Medical Systems agency, said Monday that officials treat raves at the Coliseum like a
"multi-casualty incident," which she said was similar to planning for a disaster like the Chatsworth Metrolink train crash, which killed 25 and
injured more than 130.
Tuesday's death was the latest in a string of high-profile problems at raves at public venues. Earlier this year, at least 18 drug overdoses tied to
ecstasy were reported at a New Year's Eve rave at the Los Angeles Sports Arena, next to the Coliseum. And two men died of suspected drug overdoses
during a Memorial Day weekend rave at the Cow Palace in Daly City, south of San Francisco.
Although many partygoers consider ecstasy to be safe, doctors and researchers warn that the drug, also known as MDMA, can cause high blood pressure
leading to stroke. The hallucinogen can also trigger seizures, releasing toxins that cause kidney failure.
"There are multiple mechanisms through which ecstasy can cause death," Reed said earlier this month when a CDC report she co-wrote on the overdoses at
the New Year's Eve rave was released. |
LATimes.com
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Sedit
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I dont believe it....
Read the results of dance safe... There is almot no such thing as ecstacy around anymore but dangerous analogs synthesized in china and sold on the
streets as XTC. The odds of a pill testing positive for true MDA or MDMA are about 1-100 if that. Sad thing is it all gets lables as MDMA even if its
not and media takes off to tell us the dangers of something they know nothing of.
Shame these people past away but ignorances is not always bliss and its these folks that set the drug movement back decades everytime the go and
ignore warnings that have been around for years.
Darwins new strategy since we no longer live in the wild.
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Sedit]
[edit]
How about proof the source "doctor" is a dumbass
""Doctors said "her sodium, electrolytes were so low that when she started replacing them so quickly [with cold water], ecstasy messes up your body's
ability to process that, so it threw her body out of whack," said Keith.
"""
Yes because rapidly replacing H2O somehow alchemicaly turns it into sodium in the body. God I hate fear mongering. And let us not forget she passed
out(something I do at concernts all to often even sober) and bumped her head on the floor where she was repeatedly trampled. There is not a shread of
proof here that the so called MDMA is the case of death.
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Sedit]
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Sedit]
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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entropy51
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| Quote: | | Doctors told Sasha's family that she had the drug ecstasy in her system when the ambulance got her to the emergency room. |
See hyponatremia. Not alchemy, just pathophysiology.
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by entropy51]
Better to remain silent and appear a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
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psychokinetic
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| Quote: | | Yes because rapidly replacing H2O somehow alchemicaly turns it into sodium in the body. |
That's not what it said, but still - there's no evidence of MDMA I agree.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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watson.fawkes
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Perhaps Brawndo should sponsor these events. Because it's got electrolytes.
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Sedit
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No I was correct in what I stated.
Quote"
""Doctors said "her sodium, electrolytes were so low that when she started replacing them so quickly [with cold water], ecstasy messes up your body's
ability to process that, so it threw her body out of whack," said Keith.""
So she relaced the Sodium way to quickly by drinking to much water????. She was not eating salt which could have maybe helped her condition but she
diluted the already slack amount of Na present in her blood stream. To muh water dilutes the electrolytes in the body not increase them.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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psychokinetic
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| Quote: | | To muh water dilutes the electrolytes in the body not increase them |
Granted, but the doc said she was replacing sodium stores with water, instead of sodium.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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turd
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| Quote: | | The event, held Friday and Saturday, drew about 185,000 people to carnival rides, five stages and performances by Moby, Will.i.am, Steve Aoki and
Deadmau5. About 120 required transport to local hospitals, mostly for drug intoxication. |
Seems quite harmless to me. In my neck of the woods we have more than 120 sick people on similar scaled festivals. People poisoned from alcohol, heat
strokes, dehydration, hypothermia at night, brawls. This "article" shows that people should switch from alcohol to MDMA!
| Quote: | | Perhaps Brawndo should sponsor these events. Because it's got electrolytes. |
DHMO is bad for your health! That's why I drink beer, not water!
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quicksilver
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As a parent of an adult I have a totally different take on the whole issue. The kid was 15. That is a child. That 15yr old girl is still her parent's
responsibility. They are so fucking lame they don't know what a party is about?
"Oh that 's sweet", "here is some fucking condoms but for heaven's sake give head first so you don't take any chances". This shit makes me really
angry.
"It's the chemical's (drug) fault: It's the rave issue: It's a the concert promoter's fault": It's everyone else's fucking fault but the bottom line!
The bottom line is that at 15 a kid does NOT have the worldly experience to make decisions based on a solid grounding of experience (they have very
little) or logic (they are little balls of hormones). So what does she do? She takes a drug that she knows jack-shit about and takes the "drug" not
knowing if it IS what it's supposed to be! She is IN that position because her parents thought it was OK to let their daughter attend a gathering of
100,000 other kids and NOT EXPECT that they are going to do stupid shit??????
That was a set-up for a problem. ANY parent would know that IF they examined the issue. 15yr old girl (attempting to act older, of course) goes to a
party w/ 100,000 others of her ilk. but where does this happen? You betcha"...... CALIFORNIA: the state that allowed burglars to sue home owners for
getting hurt while breaking into their homes.
Of course it's a damn tragedy that the girl died. THAT goes without saying......But she didn't have to be a statistic.
An ACCIDENT is when you're stopped at a red light and a truck looses it's breaks and T-Bones you. Negligent shit is an altogether other agenda.
NEGLIGENCE starts with the words "I had no idea it had bullets in it." ---- "Did you check"? "No....but it just went off". NEGLIGENCE is letting a
young girl go to a public party in LA where the IDEA is to party intensely. 15yr old girls are PREY. The obligation of parenting is to protect them
until they can protect themselves. That doesn't happen overnight.
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Vogelzang
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Drugs don't even make the list here. Drug hysteria keeps people from getting their priorities straight. 
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Chainhit222
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People texting behind the wheel are more dangerous then drugs can ever be. But then again, alot of people let drugs get way too involved in their
lives....
Treat drugs as a fun activity to be somewhat ashamed of (like eating at MacDonald's) and you will be fine. And don't redose too much, that's often
asking for trouble.
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Chainhit222]
The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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Vogelzang
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Also, 50% of all car accidents do not involve alcohol.
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Vogelzang
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???
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Vogelzang
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Some drug education here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jj3wZVc7nw&NR=1
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Vogelzang]
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Sedit
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Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  |
Treat drugs as a fun activity to be somewhat ashamed of (like eating at MacDonald's)
[Edited on 1-7-2010 by Chainhit222] |
Here in lies the problem with drugs. Is not the drugs themselfs but the idea that the user should feel ashamed in someway of self medicating.
Without the shame these people are forced to feel im confident there would be less homeless people on the streets because they have lost all hope
because the drug that once made them on the top of there game has forced them into the gutter due to other peoples views on there drug use.
You will never hear someone say they are ashamed of taking pain medication that the doctor gave them yet a trace amount of cocaine(something I dont
really feel is that nice of a compound) would cure these peoples pain much better then any dangerous opiate a doctor will give them with muc less
toxicity. Opiates just make you to happy to care about pain without truely attacking the source. With cocaine for instance. Imagine someone in serious
pain popping hydrocodone after hydrocodone with little relief yet if lidocaine was spread thruout there body they would feel no pain not just a
reduction of pain like opiates do. And on top of it all opiates have a rebound symptom that tightens the muscle shortly after the effects ware away so
the fever and the cure become the same thing.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Vogelzang
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I think they get this effect using diffraction grating. I got a piece of transmission grating that came in a book and this is what it looks like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVstafKZDYY&feature=relat...
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Sedit
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There is NOTHING to suggest she died of an overdose at all. Please all keep this in mind.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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I personally think that adults should be able to swallow, snort, smoke, or inject whatever substances they please, at least until they've acted
irresponsibly under the influence. This is a philosophical position and not particularly influenced by whether or not people are harming their health
with such choices. I don't think 15 year olds are adults, though.
I don't think MDMA is harmless, and I think that advocates who dismiss the potential for harm are doing their cause a disservice. However, normalized
by user populations, how much excess morbidity/mortality does it account for relative to (say) people who drink alcohol or smoke tobacco? I suspect
that the relative risk to users is not very alarming, but I don't have comparative studies at hand and will humbly correct myself if the facts show
otherwise.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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Sedit
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There is another recent thread where I posted that exact data Polverone but the basis of the discussion was around the dangers of methampletamine. It
showed that tobacco and poor diet related incidents are the #1 cause of death in the US back in 05, IIRC, when the study was done.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sedit | | There is another recent thread where I posted that exact data Polverone but the basis of the discussion was around the dangers of methampletamine. It
showed that tobacco and poor diet related incidents are the #1 cause of death in the US back in 05, IIRC, when the study was done.
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I didn't see that thread but it sounds like that data is not quite what I'm looking for. Tobacco use and obesity are common contributors to death in
no small part because they are common. I'm not interested in relative ranking of health hazards in whole populations so much as effects in subgroups
that actually engage in these risks: tobacco users vs. MDMA users rather than national tobacco impact vs. national MDMA impact. I suspect MDMA will
still not come off too badly by comparison but it's misleading not to adjust for the population size of the subgroups.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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Sandmeyer
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People can argue ad infinitum about drugs, are they good or bad, dangerous or not, are they moral or not and so on - it's a bit like gay marriage, you
can argue about it forever and I guess that's what smart guys in power want as it keeps the focus away from the real issues. It's like throwing a bone
to two annoying dogs, they fight over it and leave you alone. But the true, rational reason why certain drugs are illegal is the issue, it has nothing
to do with public health and can be summarized in one word : power - as I recently pointed out in another thread. I mean, nobody will argue that
shooting up crank is good for your health, it is not, but it is well understood that the most effective and by far cheapest way to deal with the
substance abuse is prevention and treatment and worst is criminalization involving expensive, futile police and military operations and prisons, and
the smart guys know it, yet it is the approach that's used and it is even escalating.
[Edited on 2-7-2010 by Sandmeyer]
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Chainhit222
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Sedit, I did not think about the people who are self medicating. This is a good point. Perhaps I should have explained myself a bit better. I was
thinking more along the lines of respect your own body.
For example, don't binge out on stimulants as not to put too much strain on your heart. Don't drink hepatotoxic quantities of alcohol every day.
Similar to avoiding eating fast food regularly for health reasons. I guess this only applies to some drugs (depending on where you look), opiates
don't cause bodily damage...
I'm glad I do not have to take any psychoactive drugs on a regular basis to function on a daily basis.
The practice of storing bottles of milk or beer in laboratory refrigerators is to be strongly condemned encouraged
-Vogels Textbook of Practical Organic Chemistry
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entropy51
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| Quote: Originally posted by Polverone | | I personally think that adults should be able to swallow, snort, smoke, or inject whatever substances they please, at least until they've acted
irresponsibly under the influence. This is a philosophical position and not particularly influenced by whether or not people are harming their health
with such choices. |
If I understand correctly, you are saying that the citizens should be free to decide
what they want to put into their bodies. Is this correct?
So do you think that companies should be allowed to sell whatever substance they please for adults to swallow, snort, smoke or inject according to
their own judgment?
Should we do away with the DEA, FDA, CPSC and EPA since adults will be making these decisions for themselves with no meddling by the guvmint?
See Elixir Sulfanilamide
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Sedit
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Yes we should do away with the DEA and take the billions of dollars spent on them and gve it to the FDA so that they themselfs can study the effects
of these various drugs, UNBIASLY, and distribute that information to any adult willing to take the substance they deem fit. The link you posted was a
clear reminder how misinformation and lack of information can have dire consequences. The ban on drugs is along them same lines. Without them being
legel theres no way the testing that can be done on them to give people the knowledge they need to make the responsible choice. Had they done the
right thing and tested DEG in that formulation it would have saved lives. Same goes for substances they now deam illegle.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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quicksilver
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The DEA is not the old "Bureau of Narcotics". They are more an intelligence organization than a drug hunting venue and will not go quietly into the
night. They would not be going anywhere at all because the value of intelligence organizations that operated BOTH in a host country and the US is too
valuable to throw away.
There is much too much interaction between narco money and terror; narco money & political upheaval for them to be dismissed. This issue is really
NOT about someone getting high. The issue is about the level of corruption and manipulation an unbridled amount of money can do.
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