| Pages:
1
2
3 |
Madog
Hazard to Others
Posts: 221
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: lysergic
|
|
Experimental Preparation of Chlorobutanol
Chlorobutanol is a seditive, knockout type drug. In the body it yields the same chemical that causes the effects of chloral hydrate, a comercial sleep
aid. So their effects are identical. Today i made some chlorobutanol, for no reason specificaly.
First i had to prepare chloroform.
750ml bleech were added to a 1000ml beaker with some crushed ice, it was let to cool and agitated a bit. 15ml of acetone was added to this and it was
stirred wit ha stirring rod. I like it sit for about a half hour and it clouded up alot, i stirred it more, let sit, stir, until it had cleared up
mostly and there was a bunch of clear non-polar liquid at the bottom. 600ml of the waste was decanted. the rest put into a sep funnel and the
chloroform dripped off.
yield: 10ml
the 10ml chloroform, 90ml acetone and 2g NaOH were mixed together in a beaker and set in the freezer for 2h 30 minutes with occasional swirling. the
solution clouded up to the point of opacity after the first few minutes. that was filtered to remove the NaOH and most of the excess acetone was
distilled off(just a little left). the opaque yellowish liquid left over was poured into cold water and stirred, the liquid at first sank to the
bottom then with stiring they formed crystals.
these were filtered and the filter suspended over CaCl2 in a beaker, it looked like the paper got a small rip and some leaked through onto the
deciscant, but it may have jsut been water dripping that was forsome reason yellow, or maybe some actualy melted in the warm room. but in the end, the
semi-dry yield was 4g. it had some moisture left. 6 capsules were filled with this, each one cointaining 600-800mg of the semi-dry product.
i dont know when i'll get around to testing it on myself, not tonight, and im not especialy keen on doing it on a schll night, and this comming
weekend i may not be able to do it. but i will post about it when i do.
[Edited on 1/25/04 by Madog]
[Edited on 1/25/04 by Madog]
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
|
|
|
Madog
Hazard to Others
Posts: 221
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: lysergic
|
|
nooo! argh! i didnt notice an identical thread half way down the page...
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
|
|
|
Haggis
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 1-12-2002
Location: Mid-America.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lacrymating
|
|
I too have done experiments with chlorobutanol lately.
My chloroform was prepared from 700ml 6.25% bleach, and 15 ml of acetone. This yeilded 8ml of chloroform.
72 ml of acetone was added to a 250ml beaker and 1.6 g of NaOH was stirred in. There was not a complete dissovation of the hydroxide, and some
remained at the bottom after quite a bit of agitation. Then, the 8ml of chloroform was added in three parts and stirred. Almost immediately after
addition, the mix turned cloudy. Stirring was done with the end of a zip tie, which is quite convenient.
The mix was placed in the freezer and stirred whenever I thought about it for around two hours. There was still a small amount of NaOH solid on the
bottom. I poured this through the filter paper, and as it was going down, it reminded me quite like milk. The filter was discarded and the filtrate
put on the lowest setting of a hotplate. I left and came back 30 or so minutes while the acetone heated off. I came back and there was a slightly
yellowish liquid sitting in the beaker bubbling slightly, which I predict lost a good amount of product.
The liquid was quickly poured into a beaker of cold water, me not wanting to lost any more product. At first, I was dissappointed due to the lack of
crystals or PPT, but after 15 seconds or so of stirring, fluffy crystals started to form. The circular motion of my stirring formed a
'cone' of the crystals in the middle of the beaker, around 2.5 cm high and a a bit wider. Hurray! I probably thought. The crystals were
fluffy and reminded me of wax. They were filtered out, washed with cold water, then filtered again.
The odor was something I have not smelt before, so I assume that is what camphor smells like. It is strong, but slightly sweet, with a slight hint of
something like licorice. The wet crystals stick together, so I mashed them out on the filter paper so they could dry better.
According to calculations and Madog's results, I should get around 3.2 grams, however it is still wet and I have to wait.
[Edited on 26-1-2004 by Haggis]
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.
<b> <a href=\"http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEE41A2B1\">PGP Key</a> </b> 0C0A 7486 B97F
92EE AE50 A98C A4F3 087E 8CE9 A782 |
|
|
Madog
Hazard to Others
Posts: 221
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: lysergic
|
|
mine is reverting back t the liquid in the caps.
a while ago i had made it, and for some reason, i dont remeber, i didnt put it in water, and just put it in a vial. i put this in the freezer to see
if it would freeze, it never froze, still have the vial of it, anyone have an explanation for its behavior in changeing states?
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
IMPURE
IMPURE
its not pure. One of the concrete definitions of a pure substance is a sharp freezing/melting/boiling point.
Pure chlorobutanol is a dry colourless/white crystal.
Look on page 100/101 of James Zubricks organic lab survival manual. It will give you detailed instructions for recrystillization. Chlorobutanol will
probably best be served by a mixed solvent recrys. etoh/h2o.
Then followed by a sublimation (pyrex pot with dry ice in the center of the inverted lid and slow application of heat on the bottom should prompt
crystal growth on the glass knob).
I would not skip the recrystillization step though. The mixed solvent system will most likely lead to an oiling out of your chlorobutanol. Don't
worry, its common with mixed solvent systems.
There were some instructions on recrystillization on another part ot this site but were somewhat innacurate.
If you don't have James Zubricks little manual, buy one! it is the best 20 bucks you'll ever spend. Buy it before anything else. It is
written in plain english for the average first year student.
It's helped me immeasurably. 
[Edited on 28-1-2004 by Hermes_Trismegistus]
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Darkfire
Hazard to Others
Posts: 292
Registered: 3-1-2003
Location: California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wondering
|
|
I think madog and all of us who have been here a long time are used to the edit button never working for a year or so.
\"I love being alive and will be the best man I possibly can. I will take love wherever I find it and offer it to everyone who will take it. I
will seek knowledge from those wiser and teach those who wish to learn from me.\" Duane Allman
|
|
|
Haggis
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 1-12-2002
Location: Mid-America.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lacrymating
|
|
Yea, if memory serves correct, it was about a year ago around this time when the edit function kicked on. Oh well.
After washing my chlorobutanol well, I figured it was time for a slight taste test. I was marveling at not worrying about neutralization and how
sensitive this white powder I was filtering was, I am used to other compounds.
I took .02 grams of the chlorobutanol. Then I licked my fingers, and found a strong, chemical, astringent taste. It was pasty on my toungue and roof
of my mouth as I did the 'tasting' motion. Soon after, that area of my toungue went slightly numb, attributing to the topical anestetic
properites. The chemical flavor was persistant and was dispatched with a few swigs of orange Gatorade.
On a usual night for me, I dream throughout the night, waking up often. I went to bed normally, but when I woke up, I found that the beginning
portion of the night seemed to be oddly missing. As if I had forgotten about it, it felt empty.
I really should not be consuming such things, and I appologize to my kidneys. This was just preliminary testing, perhaps I shall do more in depth
tests sometime soon. I'll see what else of the properties of chlorobutanol I can whip up for my fellow mad scientists.
Update: my chlorobutanol does not produce a change in pH paper. This can mean that it is close to neutral, or it could also mean that somehow my
micro sample didn't register enough to produce a change.
[Edited on 28-1-2004 by Haggis]
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.
<b> <a href=\"http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEE41A2B1\">PGP Key</a> </b> 0C0A 7486 B97F
92EE AE50 A98C A4F3 087E 8CE9 A782 |
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
Wow Haggis. Your crystals were white huh!??
You do seem to have gotten a greater purity than others have(see the original chlorobutanol thread for details)
And I am thinking that the reason may be the longer and more vigorous heating of the oil phase while boiling off the excess acetone. Perhaps the
contaminants are even more easily sublimated/vapourized than the chlorobutanol.
Only one way to find out. Fractional distillation to decomposition with either a large amount of product or a microscale kit.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Haggis
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 1-12-2002
Location: Mid-America.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lacrymating
|
|
It ended up to be an exact 2 gram yield. The product was powdered with the flat end of a hot melt gluestick and introduced to a plastic vial, which I
sealed tightly. Seeing the ease, cheapness, and potential interesting-ness of this chemical, perhaps I shall and try to produce larger batch
quantities. Updates ahead.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.
<b> <a href=\"http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEE41A2B1\">PGP Key</a> </b> 0C0A 7486 B97F
92EE AE50 A98C A4F3 087E 8CE9 A782 |
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!
After attempting this synth I suddenly am simultaneously frustrated and enlightened.
The other chlorobutanol thread shows a common occurence. Getting a discoloured and perniciously uncrystalisable substance yellow substance and getting
a pure white product using sloppy methodology.
SWIM used to make herbal extracts when he was alot younger. Alot of herbal extracts and thus had ample opportunity to explore different OTC solvents.
A bane of his existance was this one type of rust inhibitor that he couldn't seem to separate from the various solvents he used, Even by
distillation.
but for some reason when he finished his oily herbal extracts instead of boiling off with the sovent as it had done in prior solvent purification
attempts, this damned rust inhibitor would remain in the oily emulsion that was so precious to SWIM's employers.
No-one ever knew about this damn rust inhibitor except SWIM. SWIM knew but since the customers loved the resinous extract and didn't seem to
notice it, and the employers seemed to love the wonderful texture and smell the rust inhibitor gave to the oily product (as well as increased yeilds).
SWIM never told anyone.
But the damn thing still pisses him off to this day.
and then SWIM synths "chlorobutanol" and while the excess of acetone is boiling off he smells something.
A chemically smell with definite earthy undertones. Normally no-one would identify it. But SWIM does. CUZ SWIM has smelled it before.
Its that damn rust inhibitor. THey put it into the metal cans of acetone, and when madscientists use the acetone to make chloroform it seperates into
the chloroform and when those madscientists use an excess of acetone with the chloroform to make the chlorobutanol the damn inhibitor in the acetone
gets sucked into the damn chloroform before it reacts and then just sits around in solution waiting to be concentrated by evaporation.
I can smell the camphorus odor of the expected chlorobutanol. But behind it I can also smell that damned earthy rust inhibitor.
PISS ME OFF 
to be continued..........
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
Haggis
Hazard to Others
Posts: 238
Registered: 1-12-2002
Location: Mid-America.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Lacrymating
|
|
At 12:00 midnight one evening I weighed out .3g of chlorobutanol into a film canister. Lime gatorade was poured into the canister and the
'shot' was taken. A bit of chlorobutanol was left on the bottom, so I took another one till it was gone.
The flavor was strong and slightly unpleasant, so I drank some more gatorade to dispatch the flavor. Then I sat down and read. After 25 minutes I
started feeling 'slow'. I put down my book and layed down.
Then I don't remember much untill waking up around 5 am from a dream. I assume that the minimal amount of CB wore off from my system after
around 4 hours, and I started dreaming, then woke up from it after it was no longer holding me asleep.
I then fell easily back to sleep till 12:00. This makes me assume that the amount I took was not sufficient, for my metabolism, to keep me asleep for
the entire night, but the remenants of it in my system were strong enough to encourage me to sleep after the full effects wore off.
I won't have a good opportunity to test it's effects again for a while, unless I do it tonight. Note to self: find some empty gel capsules
and fill them, the flavor isn't cool.
Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds.
<b> <a href=\"http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEE41A2B1\">PGP Key</a> </b> 0C0A 7486 B97F
92EE AE50 A98C A4F3 087E 8CE9 A782 |
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
I recently tried this reaction and I got...uh..interesting results. The first time I tried this I used exactly Haggis' procedure, and I got a
yellowish product which reverted to the liquid within a week. the second time I tried the reaction I got a pure white precipitate.  I used exactly haggis' numbers-but not the same procedure. After it was
sitting in the ice bath for 2h I filtered it and after the filtering, the filtrate went from milky to yellowish( I dont know why this happened). I put
the filtrate into a 125mL erlenmeyer flask, stoppered it, and put it back into the ice bath overnight because I was too tired to finish the procedure
that night. The next day the yellow color was mostly gone, it was just very pale yellow. I did not bother with heating off the excess acetone, I
just dumped the mix into cold distilled water. After filtering it was pure white. . And when I touched a very small ammount of it, my finger felt like it fell asleep. No results on yield yet as it is still drying.
|
|
|
Madog
Hazard to Others
Posts: 221
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: lysergic
|
|
thats interesting. I'm going to probaly try this again sometime, i'll have to try waht you did.
my capsules with the material half reverted to the oil but styed at that. i still have them. never got around to performing a bioassay.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
Note: dont air dry it, most of mine evaporated, and dont dry it over drano, turns green. I really got to get a desicator.
|
|
|
Esplosivo
Hazard to Others
Posts: 491
Registered: 7-2-2004
Location: Mediterranean
Member Is Offline
Mood: Quantized
|
|
Yea, air drying results in loss of the product in substantial amounts. Rogue chemist you don't need to buy a dessicator. Just make one, it is
extremely cheap and useful. If you want some info on building one just open a thread or U2U me.
|
|
|
The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
|
|
Explosivo, first result when I googled "improvised desicator" was on this site, one question though, is road salt(CaCl2 and NaCl) fine to
use as is as a desiccant or should it be heated to drive off the moisture?
|
|
|
Esplosivo
Hazard to Others
Posts: 491
Registered: 7-2-2004
Location: Mediterranean
Member Is Offline
Mood: Quantized
|
|
I personally use home-made CaCl2 mixed with CuSO4. The mixture is heated strongly to remove the water of hydration. I guess this should also work for
road salt.
[Edited on 30-3-2004 by Esplosivo]
|
|
|
Geomancer
Hazard to Others
Posts: 228
Registered: 21-12-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I bought a big jug of CaCl<sub>2</sub> sold for deicing ("Driveway Heat" . Should work fine, but to ensure freshness you can heat it on the stove. When heated in a metal pan, mine gives off very little water,
unlike the masses given off by epsom salts. I used it to dry some Iodine crystals; it worked well (takes some time, though), but I think that was the
stuff that I had processed on the stove.
|
|
|
Mumbles
Hazard to Others
Posts: 436
Registered: 12-3-2003
Location: US
Member Is Offline
Mood: Procrastinating
|
|
The CaCl2 sold around here for icemelting is covered in a layer of something. I think it may be CaCO3. If this is the same stuff others can procure,
it's helpful to crush the prills a bit. The desication time is greatly reduced for me.
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
In the pursuit of anhydrous chlorobutanol.
After reading the msds of chlorobutanol (1,1,1 trichloro 2 methyl 2 propanol) It was noticed that most pharmacopeia's list the hemi-hydrate form
and only one or two list the anhydrous form.
so.......of course......monkey read.....
The recrystyllization of chlorobutanol has been difficult, the two solvents thats seemed logical to use acetone and xylene don't seem to work
real well.
During evaporation of the chosen solvent the vast majority of the product seems to disappear. The scientist is not particularly proficient at
chemistry and it took awhile for him to consider the possibility of the chlorobutanol forming an azetrope with the solvent and evaporating away
together.
To Be continued....
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
thunderfvck
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 30-1-2004
Location: noitacoL
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Interesting thread. I'm in the process of doing this as we speak! MUAHAHAH.
I found a good link:
http://www.monoxyde.org/chemistry/chlorobutanol.txt
Author recommends recrystallizing in ethanol, as it gives clean white crystals. Water can also be used, but from this guy's experience, he
recommends ethanol.
|
|
|
thunderfvck
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 30-1-2004
Location: noitacoL
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Well I'm finished...almost.
750 ml bleach (lemon scented - I had nothing else) with 15 ml acetone. I got about 4.5 ml (very shitty) of chloroform.
45 ml's of acetone was measured, added to a beaker. 1.00 g of NaOH added. Had a great difficulty dissolving it. It wouldn't all dissolve so
I proceeded to add the chloroform. Turned milky instantly. Tried to get the NaOH to dissolve, a lot of trouble with this...Put it in the freezer for
about two hours, stirring every 10-20 minutes (FINALLY got all the NaOH to dissolve after about 1.5 hours). After the two hours I removed it from the
freezer, place it on a hot plate and let it boil.
When it was settling out, I noticed that the milkiness seemed to drop to the bottom while the acetone remained on top. I decanted the acetone/goods
and placed it in a beaker. I then proceeded to boil both of them down (one had the milky stuff, the other had the decanted acetone/goods). The
decanted one started to turn yellow after awhile. When I felt it was time, I removed both from the heat and added cold water to both. The milky one
acted oddly, it became oilish in its structure and white stuff floated to the top. The decanted one dropped out crystals.
I filtered the decanted one and got some yellowish/orange crystals. Dried them up then decided to add more cold water to the milky one. What appeared
to be the same crystals popped out from the oilly milk liquid. Filtered these crystals. This must be chlorobutanol, no?
Did a mixed solvent recrystalization with H2O/EtOH. I'm still waiting for crystals to come out, and it's not looking good. It didn't
take much hot ethanol to dissolve all the crystals, about 5-10 ml's, and this was the minimum amount. Added some hot water until cloudy (about
1-2 ml's), then added more ethanol to clear it up. Let it sit at ambient temperature. Went out for a smoke, feeling pretty good. Came back
inside, still no crystals. The solution is a yellowish/orange color, very camphory smelling (I love this smell...). I placed the flask in the fridge
and still nothing. I guess I'll put it in the freezer but I doubt that will help. Hmmm. I guess the stuff is quite soluble in ethanol at room
temperature then. But why would this author dude suggest to use ethanol to recrystallize? At the end of the article, someone else mentioned that they
used 50% ethanol. I guess I may have to try that one...
Anyways, fun experiment. I finally have basically all my equipment, except my ohaus which I am patiently awaiting...I have a shitty digital that I
used to mass everything..ugh. I got my stands today and this opened a whole new dimension. Very exciting.
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by thunderfvckAfter the two hours I removed it from the freezer, place it on a hot plate and let it boil.
I then proceeded to boil both of them down (one had the milky stuff, the other had the decanted acetone/goods). no?
|
Perhaps not, you applied alot of heat to a delicate reaction. Perhaps next time try to keep the reaction cold throughout. Use a vacuum to dessicate or
just dry normally while maintaining cold temperatures.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
thunderfvck
Hazard to Others
Posts: 347
Registered: 30-1-2004
Location: noitacoL
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The reaction was kept cold until the boiling of acetone began. Even when I started heating it (at the lowest heat possible) the precipitate fell to
the bottom. I think it was just a matter of letting it sit.
Anyways, after putting it in the freezer for like, 5 minutes, MASSIVE precipitate
I added some cold water to get it moving, filtered, pat-dried...Yield was 2.17 g. Slightly orange in color. I haven't taken a melting point yet
(I will as soon as I get home...)...But I tried some on my tongue, NUMBNESS!! I'm so excited (and I just can't hide it! Oh no no no, I know
I know I know I know I know I want you, I want you).
I think I'll recrystallize it again from cold ethanol (to hell with the mixed solvent), and see how that turns out.
I'll take some in time, in time...
|
|
|
Hermes_Trismegistus
National Hazard
Posts: 602
Registered: 27-11-2003
Location: Greece, Ancient
Member Is Offline
Mood: conformation:ga
|
|
Oh I get it!
When you read the literature, you must have assumed that the "distillation" occured at above room temperature and at normal pressure.
And that's why everyone is boiling it.
I have a vacuum pump so I distil acetone at quite a low temperature.
When I didn't have a vacuum pump I did the reaction in the freezer and then used a whole bunch of plates to evaporate off the acetone.
I poured about two or three ml's onto a cool plate, swirled it around and put it to the side, then I would repeat with several more plates.
By the time I went back to the first plate, almost all the acetone would be evaporated.
The pure white crystalline slurry would then be recrystallized and washed with water.
Perhaps your boiling of the chlorobutanol/acetone mix was decomposing it into something else.
That would account for it becoming orange and oiling out.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics; even if you win: you\'re still retarded.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
