Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » Tutorial for making a miniature chlorate cell Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues

Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: Tutorial for making a miniature chlorate cell
plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Cobalt oxide form an inaderant coating for other oxide so It is normal that The MnO2 flake of.

cyanureeves
International Hazard

Posts: 736
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

then i will be aroastin some titanium soon.
cyanureeves
International Hazard

Posts: 736
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

thank you for the u2u dann2. what i read is exactly what happened today, that is i made a power source from an old apple g3 and forgot to mark the positive lead. the titanium anode stopped working so my titanium manganese dioxide electrode which was mistakenly the cathode, just sat there and peeled on its own and turned the solution pink. my homemade manganese nitrate baked just fine. i used a s.steel pan with a propane torch underneath. the titanium turns grey while its being baked then turns black before releasing the nitric fumes.good thing the manganese carbonate i made a couple of months ago has more manganese than the one i made two weeks ago.damn battery paste just sat in my filter and didnt release enough pink liquid last time i made the manganese sulfate. i suspect the ebay source of oxalic acid to be udultered.

[Edited on 6-9-2011 by cyanureeves]
dann2
International Hazard

Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

 Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves ........ i used a s.steel pan with a propane torch underneath. the titanium turns grey while its being baked then ..... [Edited on 6-9-2011 by cyanureeves]

Fried you mean!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good that it worked. The MnO2 Anode is definitely a great Anode.

There is a guy back selling cheap MMO below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXPANDED-TITANIUM-MESH-STRETCHED-SCR...

Dann2
cyanureeves
International Hazard

Posts: 736
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

hey dann2 i got ahold of that guy on ebay. his product is like nothing i have seen before. it has been going for a week now. i havent produced much chlorate because i still need to learn more on how to make it. the liquid grows needle crystals when i let it sit overnight and they burn a purplish color. now i read that a switch mode power supply works too. there are some 5v. 3amp switch modes on ebay for $9.50. would they work? plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter I strongly recomend 3.3 to 3.7V and , a funny thing , I think I juste buy 6 day ago the same anode as you on ebay , I am in canada so the shiping should be somewath long. I never asked for this. cyanureeves International Hazard Posts: 736 Registered: 29-8-2010 Location: Mars Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood 3.3 plante? i just happen to have exactly 3.3 volts coming out my old powermac g3. i will try 3.3 then. that guy on ebay sells mostly mmo screens by look of his selling history. i got plenty of screen. 6 by 10 in. and my mayo jars could only take a 2 by 4 in. pc. something chewed the inside of the jar because its pitted pretty bad. i put the guy on ebay on a favorite list and got no notice,good thing i came back here and used dann2's link. plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter You should check the composition of your mayo jar because I think your mayo jar is made in Pet (polyethylene tetraphtalate). You should use glass polypropylene PVC or Clear PTFE. Personaly I prefer Polypropylene because it is unbrakable and common but I use glass because I dont find suitable Polypropylene . The best is Clear PTFE but PTFE is very uncomon. I buy this: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/EXPANDED-TITANIUM-MESH-STRETCHED-SCRE... [Edited on 19-9-2011 by plante1999] I never asked for this. cyanureeves International Hazard Posts: 736 Registered: 29-8-2010 Location: Mars Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood i bought from the same guy. that screen was hard as hell to cut even with tin snips. good thing you are here plante because i want to ask why you recommend 3.3 volts when most everywhere use 5volts. is it because it preserves the anode longer or does it produce more chlorate or is it because it will run cooler? plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter 3.3V is optimal because it preserves the anode longuer run cooler and you use less energy. Industry use 3.3V. I never asked for this. dann2 International Hazard Posts: 1523 Registered: 31-1-2007 Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood Don't be obsessing over the 'proper' Voltage needed to run a Chlorate cell. Most guys (including myself) build shitty Chlorate cells and if you place a 3.3 Volts power supply (capable of supplying 50 thousand Amps) accross them, you will get a damn small current flowing. Think in terms of current density on the Anode and let the Voltage go to F*&%. Most guys 'use' 5 Volts because they are using a computer power supply and they are forced to present the '5 volts' to the cell. When using a computer power supply you can have any Voltage you like so long is it's 5 Volts (a similar suituation arose regarding the colour of the Ford model T car). Stop obsessing over the 'best', 'proper', 'essential' etc, etc, Voltage accross cells. There is a certain minimum Voltage that you will need in order to get a descent or proper current flowing through your shitty (like mine) Chlorate cell. Dann2 [Edited on 19-9-2011 by dann2] cyanureeves International Hazard Posts: 736 Registered: 29-8-2010 Location: Mars Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood thank you again dann2 and plante. i have let the voltage go to f*&%ing h@ll for now at 3.3 volts. i was thinking more in bubbles than current density really. plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter Curent density is very important for an anode. It will degrade very readily if you dont check it. I never asked for this. plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter I have found my anode in my boxmail!!! I will make my Sodium chloride to chlorate cell in few minutes , I will post a picture when it will be finish. I never asked for this. cyanureeves International Hazard Posts: 736 Registered: 29-8-2010 Location: Mars Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood wow! do you mean table salt? are you going to boil it first? i even liked the smell of the mmo when i first got it. by the way i lowered the voltage to 3.3 on my cell and was only getting teenie bubbles because i was using a single thin copper wire for connections. my power source started getting really hot and i ran it like that for a whole day, the following day i added another strand of wire and i got bubbles galore and my power source cooled down a bit.i still havent dropped much salt but i know the solution has a lot of chlorate because coffee filter saturated in the solution will burn like a firecracker fuse when dried. plante1999 International Hazard Posts: 1937 Registered: 27-12-2010 Member Is Offline Mood: Mad as a hatter I made my first cell with mmo anode , I run with 28% NaCl sol. , but with an exess of it on the bottom of my cell. This will make the solution satured from the start to the and of the run , I also ad 60g of Na2CO3 to get rid of the starting hypochlorite smell and by this way reduce the effiency of the cell. You can see my big high quality 1963 , plain aluminium , varriable power supply . It cost my 30$ CAN but I imagine the price when it was made....It was new when I buy it and in original box.

[Edited on 22-9-2011 by plante1999]

[Edited on 22-9-2011 by plante1999]

plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

I dont know how but at 3.5V approx I passivated my first anode , so I made a second cell....Hop it will not degrade.

metalresearcher
International Hazard

Posts: 688
Registered: 7-9-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Reactive

Nice! But where do you use the Na2CO3 for ?
Last January I prepared 200g KClO3 from diet salt 2 parts KCl and 1 part NaCl.

Here my results

www.metallab.net/KClO3.php
plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

After 22h of run the anode seem okay but the Stainless cathode make rust where it is not immersed and the rust flake of in the solution.

cyanureeves
International Hazard

Posts: 736
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

dear chlorators,i have a cell that has been running for three days on 3.3 volts and today i took out some salt that dropped to the bottom which i will burn tomorrow to see if it is chlorated. how long should i let it run before i let it cool so it will drop more salt? should i chill the solution or evaporate it? if i let it cool and extract the precipitate will i get more afterwards if i evaporate the solution some or would it be best to electrolyze it more and repeat the procedure?is it possible to over do it on the zapping time? last year i dropped more salt with carbon rods and a cell phone charger. the only thing i did different this year was to use tap water instead of distilled water to first boil then collect the precipitated salt which i am using. i am getting much cleaner salt though and the cell does have distilled water.
plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

Does your cell heat more than 40 degree celcius if yes , simply ad 28% salt solution to replace the evaporated water , if no boil the solution to 3/4 of its volume and ad 28% sol. of salt to replace the 1/4 that you have boiled of and continu the electrolisis. It should greatly help. Could you post some picture of your cell?

I will update a page about making NaClO3 on my website , I made a rough draft.

http://hclo3chem.weebly.com/naclo3-sodium-chlorate-making-el...

[Edited on 24-9-2011 by plante1999]

plante1999
International Hazard

Posts: 1937
Registered: 27-12-2010
Member Is Offline

If it is so hot you only need to re ad time to time satured salt sol. and chlorate will precipitate.

sternman318
Hazard to Others

Posts: 121
Registered: 21-4-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I saw the same listing for the mmo anode and long story made short, I had to buy it before I could get an update on how they were holding up. So i guess I might as well ask now, how have they been working so far?

cyanureeves
International Hazard

Posts: 736
Registered: 29-8-2010
Location: Mars
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

sternman318 the mmo i got from that fellow has been making a million bubbles for 2wks. now. i havent made much chlorate because i'm still learning voltage and overheating and stuff but the mmo is going strong. the guy is hiking the price since last time i bought and some pcs. are getting smaller.
dann2
International Hazard

Posts: 1523
Registered: 31-1-2007
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

 Quote: Originally posted by cyanureeves ...............now. i havent made much chlorate because i'm still learning voltage .................

On the MMO. The seller did not realize it had MMO on the Ti at all. Someone told him it had MMO on it as he was just selling it as 'Ti mesh' (and for stone noting too!!)

Dann2

hope I'm not banned for the yellow thing?
Pages:  1  2

 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition » Tutorial for making a miniature chlorate cell Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues