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Author: Subject: nitromethane purity for ANNM compositions
prometheus1970
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smile.gif posted on 7-11-2010 at 19:44
nitromethane purity for ANNM compositions


Here may be a silly question, but here goes: Does the nitromethane in AN/NM have to be pure, reagent grade stuff? Or do most people use model airplane fuel grade nitro? I know the fuel variety contains lubricant/ other oil additives, but I figure these would work well too with AN to make something more like ANFO. I've also seen a nitomethane solvent used for removing glue, gooeys, etc. maybe this would work? Again, Thanks in advance... They are all fairly expensive and I'd prefer to know if they'll work before spending more money onthis odd endeavor



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quicksilver
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[*] posted on 8-11-2010 at 08:36


Patents for KinPak indicate a level of MN vs methanol (the only two materials that existed in the KinPak/KinStiK* products other than dye). Many give solid ratios for the commercial product depending upon it's use. There exists a somewhat standardization in that area (185ml @ 95%). The model airplane fuel is MUCH too low to even be considered. Because oil was introduced into the fuel, a heating mantel and proper temp control would be a demand to even consider that separation with any degree of percentage success.
Nitromethane is interesting material. It has an element of hygroscopicity to it as well as evaporation to contend with. That was one of the demands / benefits of a binary. It was dyed so that such a mix would be recognizable and the ammonium nitrate needed to be at a certain density level so as to absorb: this being an all pink product as being "ready to shoot": no distinct "layer" of red / white. The prill's condition became almost as significant as the nitromethane. The clay coating and high density level of most all fertilizer grade ammonium nitrate made them much too dense to make absorption consistent & the final product appropriate.
Self mix ANFO products occasionally shot poorly because many times, to save money, the fert-grade ammonium nitrate was substituted for a blast-grade well designed product. Indications of this slip-shod method was a great deal of prills on or about the blast hole site. Unless the company had it's own prill tower, they often left the cheapest concepts alone and water-gels became just as cost savings as most any source could be used. It was never as simple as it appeared.
Substitutions could be formulated (of binaries w/ HN4NO3) but the toxicity and cancer causing elements make those less than desirable for industrial use & TTBoMK much of the research in that area was curtailed.


I am certainly no expert on this & I'm sure others may add elements of nitromethane chemistry that could be employed but I think that would only be on a theoretical basis as the whole point was cost savings & simplicity in industrial settings.

* There WAS an aluminized product that was made commercially. This was used as a sensitizer so as to provide bore-hole shot consistency using two detonators without the compilation of a booster in each liner. See - JoEE vol.6 #21 )


[Edited on 8-11-2010 by quicksilver]




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[*] posted on 8-11-2010 at 09:09


There are fuels with over 95% nitro, what is yours? because I have seen ANNM's shooting pretty good with straight nitro from a model shop.
read this also:http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEYQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patentgenius.com%2Fpatent%2F4093478.html&ei=0S3YT IuMMc2aOuWg0fUJ&usg=AFQjCNEP-_WPSBlkOeqjjb8NNyiCNYjAtA




Hi,
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prometheus1970
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[*] posted on 8-11-2010 at 19:47


At this point the whole deal is purely hypothetical. I don't have any rc fuel, but there's a store just down the street from me that specializes in rc stuff, "Toyz for Big Boyz", I think or some such. It's just that from youtube surfing. AN?NM looks very interesting and I though it might be easy enought to make (If I start with E1 grade AN). I'm looking for a new project enegetics-wise, butdon't want anything too involved (just to start off) I recognize that any pursuit in this area must be well thought out and considered, but If it takes me 2 and a half years to gather the supplies/equipmentI need, I'll more likely feel overly eager when the time comes.



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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 10:15


The highest NM in UK model fuel is 30%. but it's a sensible price! I'm wondering if this has possibilities or not. Can one separate the contents by distillation.
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prometheus1970
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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 10:22


As per my original query, I've found a pace that will sell a quart of 100% nitromethane for about $35.00 with shipping (hyperfuels.com or something)



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VladimirLem
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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 10:43


Quote: Originally posted by Contrabasso  
The highest NM in UK model fuel is 30%. but it's a sensible price! I'm wondering if this has possibilities or not. Can one separate the contents by distillation.



distillation should work - Methanol need only 65Dagrees...Nitromethane around 100 Dagrees...


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ThatchemistKid
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[*] posted on 4-12-2010 at 11:22


Distillation will work I think, but there is an azetrope of nitromethane and methanol that you might have to watch out for.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 5-12-2010 at 04:10


You could try freezing out the NM if you can get to -30*C.
It would be a cleaner separation than distillation as the freezing point differences are great!

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[*] posted on 5-12-2010 at 06:34


From a realistic note of a "acetone / dry ice bath" that is a very workable concept & I agree that it would be a cleaner separation overall.


Remember with acetone / dry ice you can continue to use your acetone over and over as there is little contamination.

[Edited on 5-12-2010 by quicksilver]




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pjig
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smile.gif posted on 9-12-2010 at 21:06


wow , Now there is a idea that I have never thought about using .. Freezing to purify ...:)
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[*] posted on 14-3-2011 at 12:55


Tell me more about that supposed azeotrope.

1 litre of 30% NM RC fuel should have 300ml NM just waiting to distil over, But in an all branded quickfit apparatus with a controlled mantle for heat, I get lots of clean methanol at 65 then nothing til the lube oil starts to burn at 150.
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[*] posted on 15-3-2011 at 06:07


Wikipedia has info on this azeotrope here.

The mixture has a boiling point of 64.6 and is 9% Nitromethane. So what came over at 65 degrees is probably this mix.

Edit: the info you're looking for is about a third of the way down the page on the right.

[Edited on 15-3-2011 by Phosphor-ing]




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