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Author: Subject: 2,4-Dinitrophenol
ScienceSquirrel
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 Quote: Originally posted by NotMyForte My only other question is..how do they ship this stuff?? being that it's a chemical do they use special methods and companys and deliver it only to designated labs and such or can they ship it to residential areas with commercial companys like ups,fedex??

Some of the companies selling this stuff are very dodgy indeed.
They are sending it out in unmarked or misleadingly marked envelopes with no or false paperwork. In some cases the material is concealed inside something else eg a plastic toy.
The profit margin is huge as the material is bought as a research chemical and resold as a pharmaceutical, it is probably at least as profitable as dealing in marijuana or pornography and it is marginally legal. I think you could be prosecuted under the Medicines Act in the UK or something similar elsewhere but these people are coy and flighty.
Anyway they would probably get a heavy fine or a light sentence, nothing compared with the profits to be made.
NotMyForte
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Well.. The place I have been referring to is actually a legit research chemical supply for people like yourselfs..so my question is how these types of companies ship..
DDTea
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There's a huge difference in the way legitimate pharmaceuticals and "research chemicals" are manufactured, shipped, stored, etc. The quality control is on an entirely different level. In case you missed it, there are reports of lethal doses well below 32 mg/kg. In fact, I even gave you a reference.

It's pretty clear you're intent on hurt yourself and I won't be commenting here anymore to "help" you. I'd advise other members to do the same.

"In the end the proud scientist or philosopher who cannot be bothered to make his thought accessible has no choice but to retire to the heights in which dwell the Great Misunderstood and the Great Ignored, there to rail in Olympic superiority at the folly of mankind." - Reginald Kapp.
NotMyForte
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Well thankyou for your help so far..
ScienceSquirrel
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 Quote: Originally posted by NotMyForte My only other question is..how do they ship this stuff?? being that it's a chemical do they use special methods and companys and deliver it only to designated labs and such or can they ship it to residential areas with commercial companys like ups,fedex??

That depends on the company and the chemical.
Some companies are very strict on what they will supply, how it is shipped and to whom.
Others are pretty lax or what they are selling is pretty harmless eg some educational suppliers will sell quite a lot of run of the mill chemicals to private experimenters or home schoolers plus the strangest things turn up in private hands on eBay.
There are also some companies operating internationally that will label up something like a litre of sassafras oil as lamp oil fragrance and bung it in the post, no questions asked.
If you make a knowledgeable and legitimate approach to them then a lot of companies will supply you. If you try to order one or two fairly occult chemicals without any good reason the door is likely to be firmly closed.
2,4-Dinitrophenol is used as an illicit weight loss agent and as a primer in detonator caps, that strikes me as good enough reasons why a legitimate large chemical supplier would not sell it to any ordinary Joe or Joanna!

[Edited on 13-12-2010 by ScienceSquirrel]
ScienceSquirrel
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It has to be said that an attitude towards a chemical can vary widely;
Citric acid is hard to buy OTC from pharmacists where I live, 50g maximum with questions asked as it is used by drug addicts.
But I can buy it a lot cheaper on line for home brewing purposes and a kilo is no problem.
I used to be in the bath bomb business, 25kg sack of citric acid, no questions and cut price shipping.
Go figure, 25kg is enough to cut tens of kilos of junk if I wanted to and not one question is asked but 50g and i am cutting junk!
Oxalic acid or products containing oxalic acid are banned from sale here except by licensed outlets but bar keepers friend is available from supermarkets and you can buy oxalic acid as a wood restoration material from chandlers.
NotMyForte
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https://www.alfa.com/
or
www.rt-corp.com

If so,which and was it a rigorous process? Do you feel it would work out in my situation?

ScienceSquirrel
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 Quote: Originally posted by NotMyForte Has anyone had expirence with https://www.alfa.com/ or www.rt-corp.com If so,which and was it a rigorous process? Do you feel it would work out in my situation?

You are on your own on that one as far as I am concerned.
I am not going help you circumvent a chemical supplier's checks so you can buy a metabolic poison.
hissingnoise
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It's very likely that DNP for human use would have to go through an extensive purification process.
Reagent grade DNP may contain contaminants (mono and tri-nitrophenol) which may not affect its use for some purposes but which could cause serious problems if ingested . . .
But, in any case, I think that just ordering it may bring you unwanted attention!

smuv
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not to mention other isomers.
Hoffies
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You'd have to be absolutely stupid aka using it for long periods regularly to be killed. the people who are killed are mostly anorexic girls using it over periods of a year (WTF??)

I used it for 2 weeks a while back and barely felt the side effects; I live in Australia in a part of it which is nonstop 'nam jungle humid with epic heat. And i'm the kind guy that tends to sweat a lot too. Also I drank whilst on it and didn't discontinue adhd meds

I mean I only stumbled upon this thread because I cbf spending $600 for a poison license in aus to get it legally, found out in USA you need no such license but you have to be a registered business there (mine isn't obviously) and was looking for more info but yeah I thought I'd quickly sign up and say the research and actual chemistry is all fine and well but you can't actually comment unless you have personally experienced the effects of a chemical or seen a decent amount of people who have. I have bought it on "the dark markets" before ofc but no point paying extra and going through all the extra rubbish buying illegally entails if you don't have to. You guys should be smart enough to know that hardly anyone dies on DNP and anyone that does is virtually always an idiot that should be culled from the gene pool anyway. As a non-scientist I just find it amusing (and interesting) how you guys discuss all the vaiious stuff like toxology etc, which is of course very important but only gives half the story... only way you're gonna know for sure is to get a representative sample of people and put em all on DNP and see how she goes. I'm not a chemist but I do work in the industry. btw, you may be interested to know that this shit fucking works exactly as advertised; it's incredible. chemplayer... Hazard to Others Posts: 142 Registered: 25-4-2016 Location: Currently all over the place Member Is Offline Mood: No Mood As a pharmacologist, let me tell you that you are absolutely stupid to take it at all. 1. Personal tolerance to this substance varies enormously from individual to individual (study mitochondrial DNA in order to understand why). A dose which is very tolerable for one person can precipitate fatal hyperthermia in another. Dose-response also seems to depend on dietary factors as well, and people's response can change over time. 2. Nitrated aromatics such as nitrophenols and their metabolites are notoriously carcinogenic and antineoplastic. There's not a lot of info out there, but 2-4-DNP does seem to cause bone marrow suppression and neutropenia in tests, which is generally speaking a bad sign and not something you want to be putting in your body. 3. Manufacturing, separating and purifying the pure isomer is hard. If you've bought it from Sigma-Aldrich then it's going to be the real deal. If it's unknown powder or tablets from a random source, then who knows how pure it is and what other nasty nitrated aromatic isomers and compounds are in there. This stuff works exactly as the science says; it's a biochemical poison which bypasses your metabolism and turns your energy into heat, with potentially long lasting and cumulative ill effects. Watch some vintage ChemPlayer: https://www.bitchute.com/channel/chemplayer/ Melgar Anti spam agent Posts: 2002 Registered: 23-2-2010 Location: NYC Member Is Offline Mood: Aromatic I used to have a Sigma Aldrich account. I got 1 kg of 2,4 DNP for about$200. The reason so many people fuck it up is because it can take 24 hours to start working. Since most drugs' effects start in under an hour, people assume that they didn't take enough when they don't notice any effects within 1-2 hours. So they take more. 24 hours later, they're convulsing in an ice bath.

 Quote: with potentially long lasting and cumulative ill effects.

If you're careful about it, start with a very low dose, increase dosage very gradually, don't take it for more than 2-3 weeks straight, make sure you spend at least as much time off of it as you do on it, and most importantly DO NOT TAKE ANY OTHER DRUGS DURING THAT TIME, you'll almost certainly be fine, assuming you're a healthy adult. Used it to lose about 30 pounds, with no side-effects other than increased sweating and thirst, which is exactly what you'd expect.
clearly_not_atara
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If you buy the cheap shit, it's not pure. If you pay for analytical grade, it's probably not all that much cheaper than buying it the right way. Taking 85% dinitrophenol implies taking 15% God-knows-what.

Also, the Wikipedia article about it mentions "cataracts" as the reason it was discontinued, not hyperthermia. On the plus side, you'll get tax breaks after you go blind.
Melgar
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 Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara If you buy the cheap shit, it's not pure. If you pay for analytical grade, it's probably not all that much cheaper than buying it the right way. Taking 85% dinitrophenol implies taking 15% God-knows-what. Also, the Wikipedia article about it mentions "cataracts" as the reason it was discontinued, not hyperthermia. On the plus side, you'll get tax breaks after you go blind.

85% dinitrophenol is how it's normally sold. The other 15% is water, to keep it wetted so it doesn't explode. It's hygroscopic anyway, so there's not really any risk of it ever getting to the point where it would. The thing with cataracts was only ever associated with women, and was never replicated after that. Keep in mind, during that time period, they would sweeten drug formulations with ethylene glycol and just throw in whatever other shit they had lying around. The link is tenuous at best, in any case. Even in the one-in-a-million chance it does lead to cataracts, cataracts are very treatable these days.
Marvin
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If you take it in small amounts.. if you test your tolerance.. if you only take it for a short length of time. This may reduce the risk, but if you are careful and dedicated and patient eating fewer calories works too. I'm not talking about dieting, just eating a bit more healthily long term.

Codeine makes me vomit. Cyclozine I'm fine with, but it gives my sister convulsions. Hospitals here don't investigate, they just note it down and make sure it's not given again. Hoffies mentions ADHD, caffeine is normally a stimulant but in people with ADHD it is typically a sedative. There is an element of Russian roulette even with well understood licensed drugs.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but it feels like people making poor and dangerous choices for their health, slightly too much fatty and sugary food. Adding a mitochondrial poison just seems like another poor and dangerous choice and that's the 'healthy overweight' category you are talking about.
Eddygp
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If you are willing to monitor an inadvisable intake of 2,4-dinitrophenol for the purpose of weight reduction, I think it will take more effort than actually cutting down on calories/practising some sort of sport. While I am NOT a doctor, such a title is not required to know that a substance that inhibits ATP production and has been responsible for deaths as well as having very serious side effects should be handled with extreme care and most definitely not voluntarily ingested.

If you are desperate to find some substance to help with weight loss, I'm pretty sure that since the 1930s (when DNP was used for this purpose), science has had around 90 years to discover much safer and potentially more efficient drugs that do not carry the extreme side effects that, just by reading about them, sound more like it is a chemical weapon than other sort of molecule!

Do not poison yourself!! Take care with all potent bioactive substances and seek professional advice whenever it is needed.

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clearly_not_atara
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The only effective treatment for cataracts is to totally fucking replace the lens of your eyes. You know what's cheaper and safer than cataract surgery? Bariatric surgery. And that actually works, won't kill you, and doesn't cause cancer.
The_Davster
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Or you could eat a proper diet and go to the gym, instead of eating a very toxic molecule that will fuck up your liver regardless of whatever pseudoscientific studies you read online.

DNP should be nitrated, not eaten.

[Edited on 18-5-16 by The_Davster]
Chemi Pharma
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DNP is safe to consume as a weight loser if respected the maximum dosage per day: 3-4mg/kg.

If you exceeds this you have good chances of colapse your body with a Malignant Hyperthermia. Many articles claims thats no antidote to this hyperthermia. This is not true! Dantrolene sodium salt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dantrolene) is very effective to block this side effect. Always get it on hand at home to respond to an emergency like that, or else you will die cause the fever.

2,4 Dinitrophenol related deaths occurs only cause this malignant hyperthermia. No others side effects like kidney, liver or lung injuries never were related.

Against the risk of cataracts, take 1-2grs/day calcium piruvate pills to inhibit this side effect, however this side effect appears more with women than men consumers.

2,4 Dinitrophenol is easily made from adding an ethanolic solution of nitric acid over pure phenol (russian way), or by the reaction of phenol, sodium nitrite and TCCA over silica, as you can see at the papers attached.

Attachment: dinitrophenol-synthesis.pdf (175kB)

Attachment: dinitration of phenols with TCCA, nitrite and SiO2.pdf (42kB)

Melgar
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The one time I tried it, I had access to the Sigma Aldrich stuff in grad school, and I was living in a room that was so cold it was hard to type on a keyboard for any length of time because my hands would get numb. I'd heard about the USSR giving DNP to troops stationed in Siberia as a means of preventing frostbite, and I could have stood to lose about 20 pounds at the time as well. The only mode of toxicity seemed to be hyperthermia via overdose, from all the literature I read on it. I didn't have any underlying conditions that it could exacerbate, so I figured I may as well see if I could solve two problems at once.

Bodybuilders regularly take the stuff to lose fat, so there was plenty of online discussion of it. I can see why it's not allowed to be sold for human consumption; watch the ads for daytime talk shows some time, and it's obvious from all the weight loss commercials that there's a pretty big overlap between people who aren't that bright and people who need to lose weight. If DNP was more easily accessible, a lot of people would die from taking too much. It's not worth it to put it on the market for weight loss, but it definitely works and can be used safely.
Eddygp
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1-fluoro-2,4-dinitrobenzene is so much more interesting

there may be bugs in gfind

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Chemi Pharma
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About synthesis, effects, medical related, pharmacokynesis, etc.

[Edited on 23-5-2016 by Chemi Pharma]
Tsjerk
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Is it OK to forget about the carcinogenicity of a compound as long people don't have problems with it for 10-20 years?
Tsjerk
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1-fluoro-2,4-dinitrobenzene is indeed way, way more interesting. Frederick Sanger used it to get his Nobel . Later was brilliant enough to use knowledge similar to get a second Nobel.
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Organic Chemistry » 2,4-Dinitrophenol Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues   » Detritus   » Test Forum