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quicksilver
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Who is ultimately responsible for the generalized spread of information ? Whose job is it to formulate the lesson planning and dissemination of public
information? Where does the responsibility rest for the general public's rudimentary education?
We (the public) get information from a variety of sources: media marketing, political campaigns, entertainment, etc. But from a child's early years,
exposed to the world around him, are those whose JOB is it to ensure to the best of their ability, that the child has an education. Parents begin the
process, they also contribute to it. But there is a vocational field who embraces that responsibility of education & although they must compete
with other input, the essence of clear logical thinking, science & reason is theirs.
It's not the media. It's not the sheriff, it's not the advertizing executive. And after some years, it no longer the sole responsibility of the parent
for they can only instill [what they can] during their time with their children.
[Edited on 18-6-2011 by quicksilver]
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franklyn
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" Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law "
- Aleister Crowley
Trust a lawyer to split hairs. The distinction being claimed is that
" The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process ".
The determination of just how much constitutionally entitled legal
process , if any , you are due , will be made extra legally.
Put another way , don't confuse your " rights " with the law.
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2012/03/eric-holder-targeted-kil...
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franklyn
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http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-10-09/fbi-director...
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quicksilver
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While I certainly don't want to make any specific political commentary, I would address the basic element of the JOB of an Attorney General. This
position (to the best of my understanding) is one of the Chief Law Enforcement ADMINISTRATOR in the USA. This position is not designed to MAKE policy.
And the problems through out many administrations has been when that boundary has been crossed. Laws are made through the Bills introduced by the
House & Senate. They may then be addressed or tested by the Supreme Court. However when law enforcement takes matters of interpretation into it's
hands, it appears it is over-stepping it's bounds. An administrator should not make Policy. Although when an agenda of specific thrust is the focus of
administrative procedure, it can be construed as doing just that.
This issue has been seen on both sides of the political landscape.
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entropy51
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Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver  | | This position is not designed to MAKE policy. And the problems through out many administrations has been when that boundary has been crossed. Laws are
made through the Bills introduced by the House & Senate. They may then be addressed or tested by the Supreme Court. However when law enforcement
takes matters of interpretation into it's hands, it appears it is over-stepping it's bounds. An administrator should not make Policy.
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That is not how it works.
The directors of the Executive Branch agencies are well versed in the limits of their authority.
If you read some of the laws passed by Congress, you will see that they require the Executive Branch agencies to write the policies
and regulations necessary to implement the higher level language of the laws.
For example, the drug control statutes state that the director of the DEA shall, not may or should but shall, establish schedules of
controlled substances. The laws allow the head of the Executive Branch agencies to delegate these responsibilities to their staff, whose work is
reviewed and approved at the agency director level.
This is not a bad thing either, because the Executive Branch agencies are where you find the scientific and legal expertise that many members of
congress lack, since their previous job was selling real estate or used cars prior to being elected to congress.
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quicksilver
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You're right; that's not how it works but that is how it was designed to function. The AG is not supposed to MAKE policy (on a Federal level).
Congress passes laws. Problems have arisen due to the AG being a creature of the Administration rather than being elected by the People (as in many
States).
"In the federal government of the United States, the Attorney General is a member of the Cabinet and as head of the Department of Justice is the top
law enforcement officer and lawyer for the government. The attorney general may need to be distinguished from the Solicitor General, a high Justice
Department official with the responsibility of representing the government before the Supreme Court. In cases of exceptional importance, however, the
Attorney General may choose to represent the government himself or herself to the Supreme Court. (The SC is then the arbitrator of the law as being
Constitutional or not). The Executive Branch has made many mistakes & if no checks and balances existed we would not have a Republic (even though
I grant that it doesn't always work that way!). We have not had a truly legal war since WWII.
The individual U.S. states and territories, as well as the Federal capital of Washington, D.C. also have attorneys general with similar
responsibilities. The majority of state Attorneys General are chosen by popular election, as opposed to the U.S. Attorney General who is a
presidential appointee."
See: "U.S. President Richard Nixon's firing of Watergate Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox, following Cox's request for tapes of his Oval Office
conversations. Nixon initially ordered U.S. Attorney General Elliot Richardson, to fire Cox. Richardson resigned rather than carry out the order.
Deputy Attorney General William Ruckelshaus considered the order "fundamentally wrong" and also resigned, making Bork the acting attorney general.
When Nixon reiterated his order, Bork complied and fired Cox. He remained acting attorney general until the appointment of William B. Saxbe on
December 17, 1973."
I'm being very careful not to make this any sort of political discussion and in so saying I would point out that problems of this sort had been seen
on both sides. Thus even though I would not argue that Congressmen & women can be stupid, they ARE our elected officials charged with introducing
& passing law.
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ScienceSquirrel
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Thread Pruned
13-3-2012 at 05:24 |
killswitch
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Because he's too old and boring-looking to scare LEOs. If you're old and want to get the attention of the police, you need to be a sarcastic asshole
first, like the old dude selling iodine who responded to regulatory requirements to demonstrate adequate security for his material by sending the feds
a picture of his dog. An old guy making YouTube videos on how to test for lead paint? Not worth it.
I wonder if this is why Nurdrage uses voice masking. It's nothing but a frequency shift, though, so it's not a very good disguise.
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
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Thread Split
19-3-2012 at 21:48 |
franklyn
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We could all do with a paradigm shift
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIdiEV1P2bc
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neptunium
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"masturbatory echoes" !!!!!!
HA! good one!
where to start?
my hero Albert E
instein once said " i fear the day when technology will surpass human relations, the world will have a generation of idiots"
the TV based sutto science hows and the fear of the meth cook and the terrorist have a direct impact on the home scientific community because
internet, iphones, TV and self centered world have taken over the self reliance, family orriented pshylosophy of this great country.
this incident would NOT have happened 20 or 30 (and beyond ) years ago.
why?
because 9/11 ... ok (plenty to debate here)
Also , because we are slowly but surely loosing touch with one another .
As Quicksilver pointed out, if the neighbors knew the next door fool, and talk to him sometimes, maybe they would have quickly figured out his
harmlessness, or maybe they would have befriended him, or even participate in his demnstration....who knows?
the point is, by cutting relationship bridges between eachother and juxtaposing technology, we are loosing human contact and common sense!
For those of us old enough to remember the time when computers were presented to us as a mean to facilitate and expedite the boring job, it turns out
that it has accomplish the exact opposite of what it set out to do.a complete reversal of the human interaction.
we text and email rather than meet and talk. we watch and broadcast rather than listen and exchange.
we rely on the idiot box and idiot web to tell us about the news ,weather, fashion, cooking, directions, movie reviews, tips, real estates, dating,
and so much more ......
have we forgotten the days when we could get by just fine without any of this ?
have we effectively became idiots?
as A. Einstein predicted long ago....
[Edited on 30-7-2014 by neptunium]
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | "masturbatory echoes" !!!!!!
HA! good one!
where to start?
my hero Albert E
instein once said " i fear the day when technology will surpass human relations, the world will have a generation of idiots"
the TV based sutto science hows and the fear of the meth cook and the terrorist have a direct impact on the home scientific community because
internet, iphones, TV and self centered world have taken over the self reliance, family orriented pshylosophy of this great country.
this incident would NOT have happened 20 or 30 (and beyond ) years ago.
why?
because 9/11 ... ok (plenty to debate here)
Also , because we are slowly but surely loosing touch with one another .
As Quicksilver pointed out, if the neighbors knew the next door fool, and talk to him sometimes, maybe they would have quickly figured out his
harmlessness, or maybe they would have befriended him, or even participate in his demnstration....who knows?
the point is, by cutting relationship bridges between eachother and juxtaposing technology, we are loosing human contact and common sense!
For those of us old enough to remember the time when computers were presented to us as a mean to facilitate and expedite the boring job, it turns out
that it has accomplish the exact opposite of what it set out to do.a complete reversal of the human interaction.
we text and email rather than meet and talk. we watch and broadcast rather than listen and exchange.
we rely on the idiot box and idiot web to tell us about the news ,weather, fashion, cooking, directions, movie reviews, tips, real estates, dating,
and so much more ......
have we forgotten the days when we could get by just fine without any of this ?
have we effectively became idiots?
as A. Einstein predicted long ago....
[Edited on 30-7-2014 by neptunium] |
A good post, but ironic by nature, as it is on an internet forum.
I do strongly agree with the sentiment though. I find that on these long summer days where I'm sitting at home by myself I feel an emptiness that is
the need of direct social interaction with people, and also just to actually do something. Not much to do but go to the computer though when it's
100°F outside and you still don't have your driver's license...
The amount of chemistry I can do is limited by the summer heat too, since I have no air-conditioned area that I can use.
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Praxichys
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You guys are missing the point.
| Quote: | | Sanchez's younger brother, Keenan Sanchez, was badly burned in a Dec. 19, 2009, chemical fire that consumed the family home at 151 Adams Place in
Delmar. Police said the younger Sanchez, then 15, may have been handling chemicals in the basement. A police investigation into the fire remains at a
standstill because the teen and his mother refuse to speak to them about it. |
Who is to say it doesn't happen again? I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in an apartment next to this guy.
Sure, I have one heck of a lab. But I live on 0.6 acres, and my house (which nobody else lives in, by the way) is at least 75 feet from the neighbors
in any direction.
Don't have potentially dangerous hobbies if it affects other people. Storing solvents in your house? No problem. Storing them in an apartment complex?
The liability is insane. When I see YouTube videos of 15 year old kids making chlorine on their apartment balcony... again, I sure as heck wouldn't
want to live by them!
Long story short - if you're going to have a hobby other than watching TV, get a place to do it where you won't affect other people, unless you want
the cops blasting down your door. Out here in MI, nobody gives a flying s**t what you do as long as it's not making you illegal profit or putting
anyone else in potential (even percieved!) danger.
I'm not afraid. I even have conversations about the lab with the UPS delivery guy because I get some lab equipment delivered once or twice a week.
Everyone I know at work knows what I do. Hiding implies illegitimacy.
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Brain&Force
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| Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys | | I'm not afraid. I even have conversations about the lab with the UPS delivery guy...Everyone I know at work knows what I do. Hiding implies
illegitimacy. |
That's the primary reason I talk to people about my hobby. The "horror stories" on this forum about labs getting seized aren't the norm. If anything,
most people are understanding about amateur chemistry, especially my peers (even though the first question from many is "Can you make meth?").
You...wouldn't mind sending me some of that glassware, would you? 
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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arkoma
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I'm very open about what I do also, as some of y'all already know. I do everything in the back yard, and I am in a fairly dense residential area ATM.
I use a VERY small amount of flammable solvents* and keep a fire extinguisher handy, and no open flames. Generally, there is not even a trace of
(solvent) smell. The worst danger of 95% of what I do is a burn from live steam and the back yard smelling like a spice cabinet............
"People" are so stupid, though, too. Anyone can make meth---not even difficult. Glad I "outgrew" it.
*IPA, acetone, methanol, and ethyl acetate
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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subsecret
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Let me tell you a thing: Juries (at least in the US) are composed of people who do not have large amounts of education - the people that are chosen
tend not to pick the facts apart (if you have served jury duty, please do not be offended). It would be great if juries were made only of discerning
people, but this is not the case. It's more convenient for jurors to believe what you tell them - making it even harder to prove your point in court
if people are afraid. These days, it seems to be pretty easy to convince people that someone is a TERRORIST KILL YOUR GRANDMOTHER type, especially if
they have a few of those little glass cups with lines on the sides.
I live in a somewhat populated area, but luckily, our house is surrounded by woods. None of the neighbors know about my hobby. My friends are quite
understanding that I'm not a "terrorist," and I've even given a presentation on the hobby, reinforcing the idea that there's a difference between the
two. I have received the "can you cook meth" question several times, though. Also, when the school counselor was discussing college enrollment, we
shared our fields of interest/hobbies. When I said that home chemistry was my hobby, this is what she said: "That scares me." It didn't really sink in
at the time, but had I wrapped my head around the response faster, I'd have been sure to rebut that.
Let's step back into the Cold War - and its McCarthyism. Just as many people were accused of being COMMUNISTS, we struggle with accusations of "drug
cook" and "terrorist." Education of the people is the key to winning the war against ignorance.
Oh, let me tell you a funny story. So, at my local craft store, I found some "apothecary" bottles with ground glass stoppers - basically wide-mouth
reagent bottles (though the ground glass portions are of crappy quality). I bought a few of them, and while I was paying, the cashier said: "Some guy
was buying a bunch of these the other day, and I asked him if he had a laboratory or something." She never mentioned his response to the question, but
I just laughed along.
Fear is what you get when caution wasn't enough.
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arkoma
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I use a 250ml Pyrex beaker as a coffee cup. Seriously. I carry it in to Circle K and refill it. It also makes a handy wine/beer glass. I REFUSE to
be intimidated by idiocy, dumb fucks, or my gov't. But then again, I am 51, raised my kids, and already been to the penitentiary. I also have my ass
covered with a bound notebook and no I2 or Red phos on the premises.
I also VOTE, and you that think "my vote doesn't matter" remember when that jackass from Texas won by several hundred votes in south Florida? (Bush
43)
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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NeonPulse
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Geez... america is sure set on "protecting" its citizens. yeah right. looks like they will be banning all these chemicals because hey, if you have
them you must be a deranged lunatic who is bent on destruction! man they go overboard. its reasons like this that if you go buy some chems from the
local hardware store you MUST have illegal/dangerous uses for them. It's no wonder people are fearful there... the mass media portrays guys like this
as crazed nutjobs. it wont be long before you will need to produce ID and sign off on a EUA to buy a bottle of acetone or drain cleaner. same in
australia i think. lab glassware is set to be subject to many restrictions here in the near future.
Heres an example of the same thing in australia just today!!
http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/08/14/14/24/LIVE-STREA...
another case of "if mixed it is explosive" likely referring to the infamous acetone peroxide.
[Edited on 14-8-2014 by NeonPulse]
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by NeonPulse | Geez... america is sure set on "protecting" its citizens. yeah right. looks like they will be banning all these chemicals because hey, if you have
them you must be a deranged lunatic who is bent on destruction! man they go overboard. its reasons like this that if you go buy some chems from the
local hardware store you MUST have illegal/dangerous uses for them. It's no wonder people are fearful there... the mass media portrays guys like this
as crazed nutjobs. it wont be long before you will need to produce ID and sign off on a EUA to buy a bottle of acetone or drain cleaner. same in
australia i think. lab glassware is set to be subject to many restrictions here in the near future.
Heres an example of the same thing in australia just today!!
http://www.9news.com.au/National/2014/08/14/14/24/LIVE-STREA...
another case of "if mixed it is explosive" likely referring to the infamous acetone peroxide.
[Edited on 14-8-2014 by NeonPulse] |
Wait. The article says "Explosives found in home", but then goes on to say they found chemicals, that are stable, but can create a bomb when mixed.
Why must the chemicals be destroyed?
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Texium
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That's just screwed up. I bet most people have acetone and peroxide in the cabinet under their sink. I'd really hope that the police had more
"probable cause" than that that they are just not talking about to avoid alarming people...
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arkoma
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Yup, my sister does--nail polish remover and peroxide.
I also DETEST the "civilian" use of the word "lockdown". Lockdown is what happens to you in the penitentiary after a riot. Not at a school, not in a
neighborhood.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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woelen
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Things can be worse than that. I understood that in Germany, acetone may not be sold to the general public anymore at concentrations above 35% by
weight. In some special situations, with registration of the buyer's ID, acetone may be sold in concentrations up to 50%. Possession of acetone at
concentrations above 50% requires a special license, issued by the government.
In the Netherlands there also are many votes for that kind of regulation. The following things are discussed now and should become available only when
you have a license:
- sulphuric acid above 50%
- urea
- acetone
- metal grit and powders, finer than 0.2 mm particle diameter
- nitric acid in any concentration
The Netherlands wants even stricter control than the upcoming EU regulations of Sept. 2014. On the other hand, if I look online right now, then there
still are numerous sellers, who sell urea, nitric acid (53%), acetone and sulphuric acid. Locally I also can buy urea and acetone at many places. So,
things look contradictory. Probably enforcing all these kinds of restrictions is a big problem for the government, especially in these economically
hard times where law enforcement people are fired, due to lack of money.
Ammonium nitrate and calcium ammonium nitrate already are restricted. They cannot be obtained anymore by the general public.
It is sad to see how in just 5 years (from appr. 2009 to now) the situation can alter so drastically. In 2009 I still could buy KAS fertilizer
(ammonium nitrate with a small amount of dolomite mixed in) in packs of 25 kg and 5 kg without any paperwork or registration. If the regulations
indeed come into effect in September and are enforced then it will be nearly impossible to obtain anything reactive, corrosive or oxidizing stuff. All
of this is for one reason: fear of terrorism.
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Texium
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At least they don't seem to be going for your glassware too. You'll have to see if it seems like they actually enforce these new regulations. The
similar Texas laws that prevent obtaining a laundry list of chemicals and glassware without a license seem to only be enforced when the authorities
pretty much already know (or at least have good reason to believe) that the suspect has committed other crimes. It's like how you said that it's still
possible to buy the restricted items. It's the same here, and for the most part horror story situations don't happen. I'm thinking that they probably
won't enforce these new laws very strictly.
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NeonPulse
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so heres an updated link for the post i posted the other day about the chemicals found in QLD. the cops did well to get this guy as he could have
caused a great deal of grief for our happy land down under. http://www.9news.com.au/national/2014/08/18/19/48/bomb-plot-...
all i can say is holy shit! and its a good thing this dude was discovered. if it wasn't for a snooping real estate agent who knows what could have
happened.
20l and 20kg of chemicals kinda goes a bit past the hobby stage i think but the media is notorious for exaggerating things though. I'm interested to
see how this story goes and if any new legislation get passed because of it.
And as for the picric acid, this little old lady with a jar of potentially deadly explosives walking into a police station. the look on the officers
faces would have been priceless! Pretty sure there would a few other similar cases popping up in the near future. they seem to happen every so often.
[Edited on 18-8-2014 by NeonPulse]
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Texium
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Well in that case my earlier worries are resolved. They definitely had reason to lock his house down if he'd already blown up a car before.
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prof_genius
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I am now becoming seriously worried about the upcoming regulations, and I will have to start stocking up on reagents.
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jock88
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so heres an updated link for the post i posted the other day ..............
What is DMDT? as mentioned in the articale
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